[ExI] snowden paradox: was: RE: Sanders, Clinton and Trump

Wed May 18 23:23:31 UTC 2016

If Snowden signed to protect secrets, then blabbed something the government
may do legitimately, then he is a traitor.  If he blabbed something they
were doing which was unconstitutional, un-fourth-amendment, then he is a
hero.  spike

Also to Adrian - what if he is both?  Violated the law and blew the whistle
on gov misgoings?  I don't know what the judge said, but I assume did not
clear him of all wrongdoings.  Or the gov would not still be after him.  Si?

Since you can't cancel bad doings with good, then he is an outlaw at the
very least, though personally I am glad he did it.  If the only
'traitorous' thing he did was to publicize the legal gov things but those
things are those which the public should be aware of so they can get
Congress to change them (that is, the public would think it should be
illegal for the gov to do those), then I'd let him go free even if he did
violate his oath, assuming that no defense type secrets got out with the
rest.  (I should take that sentence out the back and shoot it.)

If he is helping the Russians, then all bets are off and he is a big time
traitor.  I assume we don't know that is true.  If the gov knows that they
aren't telling, right?

bill w

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 1:10 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

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> *From:* extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] *On
> Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace
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>
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> >…I am not getting a sense of what the majority of this group believes.
> Is Snowden a traitor or a hero?
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> bill w
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> Depends on how you view cell phones.  My view is that anything you do
> outside your own home is visible, so it is legitimate for anyone who sees
> you to see you.  And record what you do out there.  Inside your own home,
> not.  Outside, you are spraying informative photons everywhere.  Observers,
> nosy neighbors, local constables, anyone who can see you: they are not so
> much intercepting those photons as you are hurling photons at their eyes.
> Or their cameras.
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> Ja?
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> Inside your own home, if they put some kind of device in there, that is
> illegitimate.  Fourth amendment stuff, illegal for governments to do,
> violating your security in your letters, etc.  Do review the wording and
> note this is not a permission, it is a right, and governments do not have
> permission to violate a right.  Text:
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> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
> effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
> and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
> affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
> persons or things.
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> OK, so what is a cell phone?  If it is used inside your home, you are
> spraying photons thru the walls of your home so would that be analogous to
> actually being outdoors?  Or is it analogous to a really leaky land line?
> The constables need a warrant to tap a land line, and those are hard to
> get.  Do they and should then need a warrant to intercept the photons you
> willing hurl at them with that cell?
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> I personally don’t have a dog in this fight, being as I will allow them to
> listen to my discussions, but I am a special case: I am the most boring
> person in the world, the counterpart to that guy on TV who is the most
> interesting.  I was at a party, some yahoo said I know you!  You are that
> guy, the most boring person in the world!  Several others heard, and became
> interested, which meant I was no longer the most boring person.  They lost
> interest then, went off to find the new most boring person in the world,
> but when that happened, I again became the most boring, so they will never
> find that other guy.
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> But I digress.  I don’t care if the constables intercept my phone
> conversations, but being the most boring person, they would use the
> discussions as a lullaby.  They could weaponized them, use them to cause
> the bad guys to die of boredom, a snooze-cannon more powerful than that
> internet video that enraged the entire middle east and started wars, etc.
>
>
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> If Snowden signed to protect secrets, then blabbed something the
> government may do legitimately, then he is a traitor.  If he blabbed
> something they were doing which was unconstitutional, un-fourth-amendment,
> then he is a hero.
>
>
>
> So… are cell phones radios?  If so, then interception is fair game.  Or
> are they leaky land lines?  If so, interception without a warrant is
> unconstitutional and violates our right to privacy.
>
>
>
> Do educate me for I retired my spam bucket land line years ago.  For many
> years, I have had no physical way to send or receive sensitive information
> in protected mode, which is no problem for really boring people, but for
> those of you who have exciting lives (and you know who you are) well, do
> educate me please.
>
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>
> Over to you BillW.
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>
>
> spike
>
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>
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