[ExI] de Waal

Fri Mar 2 19:56:28 UTC 2018

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:33 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 12:18 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >* you did not react to my statement that Muslim terrorists were a very
>> tiny part of the Muslim world,*
>
> Then I will do so now. Most Muslims are not terrorists but most terrorists
> are Muslims. Yes, active terrorists make up a small percentage of the
> Muslim world, but the percentage that are terrorist enablers and
> sympathizers is not small at all, it approaches a majority in many
> countries.
>

I can agree with that.  bill w

*> no matter what people say on surveys. *
>
> So what are you saying, you already know the truth and don't want to be
> confused by the facts?
>   john
>
> What?  I do know what people say on surveys is often a response
calculated to impress the reader that the surveyed person is conforming
with his culture.  That may, or may NOT, be the case with the Muslim
surveys, but given the pressure and the penalties to conform, I'd be very
suspect of drawing major conclusion from that kind of data.  Not to toss it
out - just to be suspicious of it.  bill w

> I don’t understand why so many people feel it is their duty to perform
> logical contortions if that’s what it takes to avoid criticizing
> religion. You’re free to criticize a person's politics or their knowledge
> or their intelligence or their personality or even their personal hygiene,
> but don’t dare criticize their religion, if you do then that means you're a
> bad person. I don’t get it.
> JOhn
>
>
I wonder if you are talking about me.  The closest person I know who has
opinions like mine on religion is Christopher Hitchens, and I don't mind
airing my opinions anywhere.  bill w

> 
> As I’ve said over and over, not a tendency to obey adults but a tendency
> to believe what they say is true, especially in things involving morality
> and general philosophy
> john
>
>
Are you saying that a tendency to believe moral things is different from,
say, what parents tell them about music or using the microwave?  If you
are, that could be true, as those things are more important in a way.  But
I also say that changes to what parents taught is rampant, starting in teen
years, and continued in college dorm discussions.  bill w

> And how can very young children learn if they don’t believe anything
> adults tell them?
>   John
>
>
I never said that.  Perhaps things like that are put in memory, and maybe
tentatively believed, or maybe stored as the default, and taken out when
supportive or contradictory opinions are expressed and examined. bill w

> 
>
> =======================  will respond to the below later  bill w

>  * > What do tots and teens think when their parents disagree?  *
>
> Historically it was pretty rare for parents to disagree about religion, in
> fact historically disagreements by anybody over anything religious were
> illegal.
>
>> *>  Peers, while one is a teen, outrank everybody, despite the clear fact
>> that one's peers often don't know any more than the person does, and is
>> very often wrong *
>
> The type of learning I’m talking about now isn’t about learning facts, its
> about learning opinions and values and a philosophy of life.
>
>> *> If there is any genetic tendency to hear and obey parents, it's mostly
>> gone by the teen years.*
>
> By the teen years they no longer take it for granted that what adults tell
> them is true, but by then its too late, the damage has been done and they
> will believe ridiculous religious crap for the rest of their life without
> question. And they will teach the exact same bullshit to their children.
>
>> *> What does a person say when he is asked, or asks himself, just who he
>> is?  Religions affiliation is usually noted, if not first, then, shortly
>> thereafter. *
>
> I know, people are put (or they put themselves) into categories depending
> on religious franchise, and that melancholy fact has cause more misery in
> the world than anything else except for death itself.
>
>   
> John K Clark
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20180302/6465bb8d/attachment.html>