[ExI] Science or Scientism?

[William Flynn Wallace]

Humans of long ago may have had no conception of mental illness.  When
America was 'discovered' several tribes (and some in Africa) raised
paranoid schizophrenics to the level of shaman.  They had visions and
hearings that no one else could experience, so they must be nearer those
hallucinations - aka God's little helper.  This may have been the start,
long, long ago, of believing in things very few could see or hear.

If they had the capability of being unseen and unheard, they must have
extraordinary powers - gods.  The shamans claimed all sorts of power:
rain, healing, etc.

Another way of looking at it (not inconsistent with the above) is that
parents looked above themselves for the authority to enforce their
child-raising demands.  "They can see you even if you can't see them, and
they are watching you to see if you behave like you should (cue in 'He
knows when you've been sleeping, He knows when you are awake..............).

So a God or gods, then, are the ultimate authority backing up the parent
and the shaman.

Or even another way of looking at it:  gods are simply the generalization
of authority upwards. (cue in Oedipal complex) Little boys have to obey big
boys, big boys have to obey men, men the shaman, the shaman the demigods,
demigods the gods, and so on.

So gods were invented as a source of ultimate authority to scare people
with.  Later, heaven and hell were invented as reward and punishment from
the gods, to be dispensed by the clergy, who could be bribed (cue the
Reformation).

Hey!  If we don't really know, then anything is possible, right?

bill w

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 6:28 AM Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at gmail.com> wrote:

> Surely to say it happened because of natural selection is not much
> different than just saying "it happened".
>
> I think that both science and religion are outgrowths of a very human
> seeking to know, and for meaning and transcendence.  I think that
> ultimately the best and most authentic of science/technology leads
> inescapably to the need for all the best aspects and consideration of the
> deepest questions of spirituality.   Starting with what does it mean to
> wisely choose who we want to be and how we will be to others that choose
> differently as we gain the ability to mold physical reality, including our
> own very being, as we choose.
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:16 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> BillK <pharos at gmail.com> wrote (quoted)
>>
>> "most people do not believe in an inherent conflict between science
>> and religion"
>>
>> Perhaps this is the case.  However, religion is an observed fact among
>> one kind of primate.
>>
>> Science can ask:
>>
>> Why do people have religions?
>>
>> The capacity to have religions, like all behaviors, is the result of
>> either direct selection or selection for something else that left
>> humans with this capacity.
>>
>> Keith
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