[ExI] Children’s Rights

[William Flynn Wallace]

If it's about racism or harassment, that's true.  bill w

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:59 AM SR Ballard <sen.otaku at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> If we are moving away from a physically violent culture I'd like to see
> the data.  (yes, don't send me a link to Pinker's book - that's worldwide
> and we are talking about individuals)
>
> bill w
>
>
> I’m not even sure how to provide data on something for that, since it’s
> based on changing cultural perceptions.
>
> For example what I got away with doing at school versus what it seems like
> the consequences now are for those same actions.
>
> SR Ballard
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 8:43 PM SR Ballard <sen.otaku at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2018, at 7:54 PM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have been an advocate for children's rights for fifty years (pause for
>> applause).
>>
>> A few years ago a child (age uncertain) got a legal divorce from her
>> parents.  A sign of things to come, I hope.
>>
>>
>> How I feel about the issue largely depends on age. I don’t think a small
>> child can be responsible for themselves, and I’m sure you’d agree that
>> there’s not a firm line, but there’s a point where someone is going to be
>> “too young”.
>>
>> They take dogs away from owners for fairly small owner misbehaviors
>> compared to what children have to tolerate.
>>
>>
>> Well, we also euthanize dogs, but not children. While the two have been
>> compared, especially now that couples are viewing pets as “starter”
>> children, or a replacement for children, they’re not a particularly good
>> parallel in my opinion.
>>
>> For example we never force our children to breed, and especially not with
>> their own children. We don’t send them to war to be shot and blown up. We
>> don’t sterilize them. And so on.
>>
>> I also tend to think that falsely separating dogs from owners is a lesser
>> offense that falsely separating children from their parents.
>>
>> But to be honest, what action would get a dog removed but is not grounds
>> for removing a child? Being outside without shelter? Illegal tethering?
>> Viscous beating? Biting the mailman? Medical neglect?
>>
>>   I support making spanking illegal and can give you pages of reasons
>> supported by data.  The main reason, outside of its being cruel, is that it
>> just doesn't work very well.  It tends to suppress behavior, not get rid of
>> it.  It drives the behavior underground, kids finding ways to hide it, it
>> creates a lot of resentment, and so on.  Much more effective ways to create
>> good behavior and get rid of the bad exist.  If it is so effective why
>> don't we use it on adults?  thirty lashes for drunk driving?
>>
>>
>> I don’t think it’s terribly effective either, purely based on anecdotal
>> evidence. I didn’t understand why I was being spanked, basically ever.
>>
>> And further than that, many parents say they’re spanking their children
>> when really they’re just beating the snot out of them. As we move away from
>> a physically violent culture I imagine the acceptability will steadily
>> decline.
>>
>> And you can find many, many people who would be okay with the public
>> lashes, and would applaud them. I oppose mostly based on sanitary grounds.
>> If I’m bleeding and the last guy was bleeding then I’ll probably get some
>> disease, and the uptick in healthcare costs are just not worth it.
>>
>> But is a parent punishing a child analogous to the state punishing a
>> person? Or should the analogy be made of the parent hitting the child is
>> like being beaten by a stranger for doing something displeasing?
>>
>> Wouldn’t a child getting lashes for rolling their eyes be more in-line
>> with the “aggressive stranger” than an “established violation of authority”?
>>
>> -
>>
>> But having two groups of friends: very “hard” leftists and very religious
>> Mormons, this is one of those issues where I don’t really know where I
>> stand. What rights should children have, and when? One group of my friends
>> would say “all the rights all the time” and the other would say “none of
>> the rights until adulthood” but clearly the answer is somewhere in between.
>> I’m just not sure how to figure out where it should be.
>>
>>
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