[ExI] you asked for it -here it is

Mon Dec 30 01:19:01 UTC 2019

Oh OK.  Sorry about all that.  I guess all I can keep from conflating is
red redness.
But I'll work on my Will And Will Ws, also.

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 5:38 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> william flynn wallace (me) is bill w, not bill k
>
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 6:22 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Will,
>>
>>
>>
>> You asked: “*Present...where?*”
>>
>>
>>
>> *Thank you for asking!*  We’re creating a video to help explain all this
>> and we just completed a crude rendering of the section that answers just
>> this question here <https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness/>.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no narration yet, so I’ll try to walk you through it.
>>
>>
>>
>> This will pause in the “Flashing Pixel” section in a loop with a single
>> flashing red/green pixel.
>>
>>
>>
>> This flashing pixel basically proves there must be something physical in
>> our brain, which can physically change for each pixel of conscious
>> knowledge we are aware of.  (The “inverted perception” section proves
>> redness is not related to red, and in fact may be simply inverted anywhere
>> along the chain of perception.).
>>
>>
>>
>> You’ll need to press the continue button to get out of the loop.
>>
>>
>>
>> The simplest theory is that each of the cortical columns in the visual
>> cortex is representing a pixel of knowledge in our visual space, and so
>> far, all evidence seems to support this theory.  Steven Lehar recommends
>> thinking of it as an actual diorama of 3D knowledge laid out in the visual
>> cortex composed of voxels (3D pixels) spread out in the visual cortex.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the “scrunched cortex” section, we split things into 2 spaces.  The
>> one on the left represents the virtual reality represented, or how things
>> seem to us.  The one on the right (hypothetically) represents the actual
>> layout of the neurons representing each of these pixels of knowledge,
>> physically laid out in the visual cortex.  There is much higher resolution
>> in the center field of vision, so this requires things to be scrunched up
>> in some way to make room for additional pixel neurons in the center of our
>> field of vision.  Of course, this scrunching is consistent with the folds
>> in the cortex.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/16f0my54ba7m7SliUDkGdvcxdfOJmfZiI/view?usp=sharing>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>>
>> As you can see in the above model of the primary visual cortex, there is
>> of course the ”Longitudinal fissure” separating the two halves of the
>> diorama which are physically split between the two hemispheres of the brain.
>> There is also the “Transverse occipital sulcus” splitting the visual
>> cortex in half again from top to bottom (looks like a frown), splitting the
>> diorama into 4 sections.  This cross of valleys centered on our field of
>> vision makes room for the additional pixels at the center of vision.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can see the seeds of the strawberry, as they move around these
>> cortical column pixels, into and out of these sulci as they increase and
>> decrease in resolution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does that answer your question? ;)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 3:50 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 4:31 PM Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Will,
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:41 PM Will Steinberg <
>>>> steinberg.will at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well,
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) I'm Will not Bill ;)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I guess I confused you with William Flynn Wallace aka (Bill
>>>> K).  Thanks for clearing this up.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You did confuse me with BillK, but he is not, to my knowledge, William
>>> Flynn Wallace!  We have many competing Wills here and further competing
>>> wills beyond we eponymous ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Once someone experiences redness, when there is no glutamate present,
>>>> glutamate = redness theory falsified.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Present...where?  There is definitely glutamate present in the brain at
>>> all times and during all qualia.  To do what you are doing, you seem to
>>> need to find the *location* of the qualia, which runs into precisely the
>>> same issue.  How will you possibly determine what the bounds of 'present'
>>> are?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) The universe clearly cannot exist without consciousness.  There is
>>>>> no universe.  All we know was gathered by consciousness.   Observation
>>>>> directly affects reality.  A theory of the universe obviously includes
>>>>> consciousness because it is far too big a deal to be extraneous.  Why do
>>>>> people try to find the underlying geometry of the fundamental forces, but
>>>>> claim consciousness is one of John's "brute facts"?  Gravity may be a brute
>>>>> fact, but also one that is able to be studied.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then, does a person not exist when they are asleep and unconscious?
>>>> Are you saying that even if a huge asteroid completely destroyed all life
>>>> on this earth this solar system could no longer exist (possibly to try
>>>> again) since it was no longer conscious?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No.  In my opinion, our consciousness is merely an extension of some
>>> original flagellum from the beginning of the universe, when everything was
>>> integrated a la Tononi's IIT.  Also, in any case, I think the solar system
>>> is a sufficiently integrated system to contain consciousness (c.f. orbital
>>> harmonics) and furthermore I think atoms are sufficiently integrated
>>> systems to contain consciousness.  I do not think that atoms are
>>> self-conscious because they don't appear to contain sufficient machinery to
>>> map themselves, unlike the human brain, though I could be wrong and atoms
>>> could be little brains, but I don't think so.
>>>
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