[ExI] The Thirty Meter Telescope is now officially dead

spike at rainier66.com spike at rainier66.com
Tue Dec 31 20:04:30 UTC 2019



From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of John Clark via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] The Thirty Meter Telescope is now officially dead


On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 9:07 PM ddraig--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:


This entire rambling discussion si not at all about the mob.  It is about you.


Wow, I don't know what to say...I'm flattered you think I'm important enough to deserve such a long discussion.


> I don't think the mob is evil. 


I know, and that's exactly why I objected so strongly when you said we agreed. 

Hey Spike... do you still say not one person on the list is sticking up for that mob?






I do.  The mobs have their motives, profit, superstition, etc.  They won this round because they were willing to commit violence.


I urge us all to take a step back for a minute and think in bigger terms.  We have examples in California where  the NIMBYs have been empowered to stop developments by claiming their ancestors once walked here.  They aren’t even required to prove it: that’s one of those cases where we Americans are bending over backwards to try to be completely equitable to everyone.


Are the NIMBYs evil?  They have their motives.  Developers usually quietly pay them off to go away.  When that happens, the others get the message, and make sure they are in line to get a big payoff.  Some there may even believe their ancestors once walked there, I don’t know, but I do know the end result: new developments cost so much that more and more people can’t afford a home.  Result: go to San Francisco and see it for yourself.


Evil?  Well, they realize they can take advantage of our laws to make money.  Lawyers do that.  Are they evil?  Depends on how you look at it I suppose.


This mob stopping the telescope wants a payoff.  They paid them before, now they want more.  That’s the nature of this game.


My prediction is that we will be forced to go to an inferior site elsewhere, somewhere where they have a bit different method of dealing with protesting mobs.


We can call this evil if we want, and stopping that telescope is evil from my point of view, but I must say in a sense we brought this on ourselves.  We like to think we can make everything fair in this old world but I think we cannot.


There is one more point here: a minority willing to commit violence is more powerful than the majority.  This mob is acting illegally and are willing to physically harm the astronomers and builders.  With that willingness, they win, just as  the mafia wins so many rounds, for they are willing to commit violence.


I don’t have the answers.






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