[ExI] ideas for ted

Thu Jan 17 01:32:38 UTC 2019

> But one could go even further than Adrian

And that's where you pass out of reality.

People do need to know where Russia is if they will be interacting with it.

Calories are something people interact with every day.  So is English;
I stated a reason why it must be taught.

History - the broad patterns at least - are likewise often actually
used (to see what historical things one's current situation might
resemble, so as to try not to repeat history - or to try to repeat it,
if the outcome was something currently favored).

You give no reason for "which Hollywood star sleeps around the most",
among other things, to be what we really need to know.

I know, I know, you were probably just speaking in parody, hyperbole,
and exaggeration.  I wasn't.  It can be hard for people to tell the
difference sometimes.

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 5:09 PM William Flynn Wallace
<foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All I can say to ADrian's geography response is that I expect educated people to know just a few geography things - things it would take a day or two at the most, to teach.
>
> But one could go even further than Adrian - nobody needs to know where Russia is, even if they are going there.  Just buy a ticket and they will take you there, possibly with your luggage.
>
> Other things that are irrelevant:  which way the Earth is spinning; where the sun is; what is a gene?; or a neuron or an electron or a microbe or a calorie or a stock or a bond or ............;  do English and literature really need to be taught?  Nah.  Ditto history.  Especially history.  Ditto algebra, geometry.  Who uses these things?  Very very few.  Most people get along just fine with a 4th grade level of English - after all, that's what it is on TV.  So, just enough English to be able to deal with 4th grade speech and reading.  Some of us achieved this at the end of the 1st grade - so no more English for us!
>
> Things we really really need to know:  how to play games and text and take selfies; which Hollywood star sleeps around the most; what movie should I see next?  Who is the cutest girl/boy in the 11th grade?  What's the best makeup?  Are Dockers still in style?  What fast food place has the best double cheeseburger? These are things that come up all the time in many people's lives.  That is, if you want to know what is relevant to most people, then these should be taught in school (and watch attendance and grades grow)
>
> If all we really need to know is which way to the welfare office, then all we need to know is which way to the liquor store and the drug dealer.
>
> Ergo - after about the 4th grade, about 2/3 of the kids could be dismissed with no further education.
> They would not use any more of it in their daily lives, right?  Not unless they wanted to understand the world they were living in and the people in it.  And many wouldn't care to know those things.  Not relevant.
>
> bill w
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 6:25 PM Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Geography is a good example.  When do people in the US actually need
>> to know, e.g., where Russia is, as opposed to and distinct from being
>> able to look it up when it becomes relevant?
>>
>> The answer is not "always".  "Pride" and the like are completely
>> insufficient justifications.  The actual location of Russia is, in
>> fact, irrelevant to the daily lives of most people in the US.
>>
>> Now, they should know to look it up before acting on or making any
>> decisions based on that knowledge.  But most of the "pop quiz"
>> interviews I've seen make the assumption that this is one of the
>> things that people should already have memorized, with justifications
>> that don't hold water.  Sure, it's a major country.  Sure, it's
>> influencing the world.  But where it actually is, is a detail that is
>> often not actually relevant to people far removed from it.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:34 PM William Flynn Wallace
>> <foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Recalling my GRE test long long ago - there were many charts to interpret and I found out when teaching statistics that Ss have a lot of trouble learning to do so.  Interaction effects also stumped many, although I don't know how far you want to go with basic statistics in K - 12 grades.
>> >
>> > Suggested basic statistics:  central tendency, variability, correlation, simple experiment design, charts of all kinds (and how to lie all of these), the idea of confounding.  Normal distribution.  These only for the science track?  Teaching these to subaverage Ss is impossible.
>> >
>> > While learning how to do an experiment is a good idea, as Adrian suggests, that can go very far indeed and I wonder just how much it is worth it below the college level.
>> >
>> > I also want to add geography.  Lack of knowledge of this in polls is embarrassing, with what I have seen.  And leave room for health physical education  - can obesity be lowered?
>> >
>> > My high school teacher friend says that one of the big troubles is the administration assuming that everybody can learn everything.
>> >
>> > The main trouble for you as I see it, is paring down to the time limit.  Emphasize ideas rather than details.
>> >
>> > bill w
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 4:15 PM Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So, first question: how does one score such an invite?  :P
>> >>
>> >> Related question: how do you know that satellite controls aren't why
>> >> they invited you?  (I mean, yeah, likely guess they're more interested
>> >> in education, but let's make sure of your audience.)
>> >>
>> >> You might do well to include a brief overview of how we got to our
>> >> current state -
>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system and so on.
>> >> The modern scholastic system seems to be a result of the Industrial
>> >> Revolution.  Most critically, note the things it was intended to solve
>> >> that are still necessary today:
>> >> * Yes, literally everyone needs to know how to communicate well.  In
>> >> English-speaking regions such as the US, this means classes in
>> >> English.
>> >> * Yes, literally everyone needs to know basic arithmetic.  (Maybe or
>> >> maybe not higher math, but certainly at least through fractions and
>> >> percentages, so as to theoretically be able to calculate how much tax
>> >> they owe - even if many turn that over to accountants, automated or
>> >> otherwise, they still need to be able to verify e.g. sales taxes on
>> >> their dinner bills.)
>> >> * Yes, literally everyone needs basic literacy.  These days, everyone
>> >> needs basic computer skills as well, but that doesn't mean they don't
>> >> need to read and write (just the opposite).
>> >> * Yes, literally everyone needs to know the basics of science: what is
>> >> a "theory", what is a "hypothesis", and how to conduct experiments to
>> >> find out stuff about the world.  (Just look at the depressed economy
>> >> and constant low-level humanitarian crises in areas of the US where
>> >> this knowledge is seen as contradictory to the dominant religion and
>> >> therefore suppressed.)
>> >> * Yes, literally everyone needs to know basic civics: what is
>> >> "voting", what fair government looks like, how to be fair should one
>> >> find oneself in a position of power, and so on.  (Look at areas of the
>> >> world - such as Iraq - where this knowledge is generally missing from
>> >> the population.  We may be critical of our government, but their
>> >> leaders literally have no idea of how to run a non-tribal government,
>> >> resulting in blatant corruption and miscarriages of justice.  Over
>> >> here, since anyone can - in theory - run for elected office, everyone
>> >> else needs to be sure that anyone who does run probably knows at least
>> >> the basics of what good government even is.)
>> >>
>> >> And so on.  Even with some diversity allowed, there are common basics
>> >> that everyone must be taught, and that must be covered by every
>> >> alternative that some child might be exposed to.
>> >>
>> >> After that, then go on to explore where education might go.  I
>> >> mentioned recently a possibility of more and more fundamental mental
>> >> models, aided by technology to look up details as needed, that let
>> >> those who learn them handle an ever-broader range of topics from the
>> >> same educational effort (the same average number of years spent in
>> >> school).
>> >>
>> >> If you want to talk diversity in education, you might consider
>> >> touching on adapting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_customization
>> >> to education.  Note especially the central concept: using technology
>> >> (not just human instinct, which tends to fail when it is the sole
>> >> instrument used for this, even when the teachers involved are unaware
>> >> they are doing it) to discover the individual needs and strengths, and
>> >> then adapt or invent a curriculum that gets all the requested topics
>> >> to the student in ways that particular student can master quickly.
>> >> (You might put in a slide on detecting when this is happening vs. when
>> >> people are just using their own guesswork, so as to shut down
>> >> possibly-well-intentioned but short-changing efforts that are doomed
>> >> to fail before they can take many students with them.  If you do,
>> >> another slide on the difference between "untested guesswork" and
>> >> "rigorously tested technology" might be useful too.)
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 8:54 AM <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Exi friends,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I have been invited to give Ted talk, and I might take them up on it.  I have hung with you for well over 20 years and always read the chatter even if I don’t participate as much as I once did.  My ideas and attitudes have been greatly influenced by ExI.  Naturally my Ted would be greatly influenced by that association.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I will not speak on my real area of expertise (satellite controls) because that wouldn’t be of general interest to the people who invited me.  They want to hear about a more recent interest of mine: education.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > So… I might give a talk on the future of education.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Please, your perspectives, ideas, suggestions for focus, anything you want to offer.  I have time: the outline wouldn’t need to be ready for several weeks and the pitch itself would happen in May.  I am thinking of a techno-optimist view of the near term easily-foreseeable future.  My notion is to talk about our local public school’s embracing highly diversified curriculum: what if we do and what if we do not?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Help me Exi-wan Kenobi!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > spike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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