[ExI] Free will was: Everett worlds

[Stathis Papaioannou]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 at 02:42, SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> In that case going along with my preferences (eating cake) or going
> against my preferences (going for a jog) is an act of my will.
>

There are always competing considerations and your preference is determined
by weighing up the pros and cons of each option.

One thing that is not a choice is having a chemical imbalance. But I can
> exercise my will to take medicine to treat it.
>
> I don’t understand how I can only have free will when I am unable to make
> meaningful choices. Please explain.
>
> I will try to say what you said in different words:
>
> You can *only* have control over your actions if they
>
>
> Free will only exists if
>
> are determined by your preferences, values, knowledge of the world and so
> on,
>
>
> Your actions are controlled by your knowledge
>
> which are acquired through experience and encoded in your brain.
>
>
> Which you get by doing things.
>
> If your actions were not determined
>
>
> If your actions were not controlled
>
> it would mean that they happened for no reason at all,
>
>
> It would mean they were random
>
> not even a bad reason. If you had this sort of “free will” you would be
> unable to function and would die.
>
>
> If your choices are random you would die.
>
> Criminal behaviour would be the least of your problems.
>
> People who worry that they could not be free if their actions were
> determined often have not considered what the alternative would mean.
>
>
> Free will is the ability to choose. Do I want cake or pie? Will I take the
> train or will I drive? Will I cross the road now or after this car passes.
>
> My actions are not controlled by my preferences and knowledge,  I choose
> my actions by taking into account my preferences and knowledge.
>

Choosing your actions by taking into account your preferences, knowledge,
values, an annoying mosquito, the wind on your left cheek, etc. means that
your actions are determined by these factors. Determined means fixed: given
these exact factors, your actions would be the same. You are concerned that
if your actions are fixed they cannot be free, but it would be a worse
problem if they were not fixed, because then they would be random.

Every situation you will be in will always be different because you have
> had different experiences prior to that repetition of the situation.
>
> “A man can never cross the same river twice.” Both the man and the river
> are different.
>
SR Ballard
>
> On Aug 17, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 at 01:55, SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I think “free will” is a bit like Pascal’s Wager.
>>
>>
>>
>> If free will is real and you think it is real, then you will see yourself
>> as a free agent, and take responsibility for yourself and your actions,
>> intentionally working to better things. You will put murderers in jail.
>>
>>
>>
>> If free will is real and you think it is not, you can and will excuse all
>> manner of immorality, sloth, and cruelty because they couldn’t be avoided.
>> You probably put murderers in jail, but it’s kind of stupid because from
>> your perspective they never decided to kill anyone. Killing someone was
>> something they would be completely unable to prevent.
>>
>>
>>
>> If free will is not real, then your belief in it does not change your
>> actions. The chain of cause and effect completely controls every aspect of
>> your existence, you cannot make any real change in the world. With a good
>> enough computer (and a good enough measure of initial conditions) you could
>> model every single part of the universe and tell me exactly what I will
>> have for breakfast on 17 Jan 2035. Murderers will be put in prison or not,
>> based completely on initial conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>> So if free will does exist and you don’t believe in it, you introduce
>> negatives.
>>
>>
>>
>> If free will doesn’t exist, it doesn’t matter because it changes nothing,
>> and I will have whatever belief I will have regardless of my own “agency”,
>> so it’s pointless to try to change my mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> So believing that I have meaningful control is either essential to being
>> a good member of society, or absolutely unimportant.
>>
>>
>>
>> Believing I do not have meaningful control is actively negative, or
>> absolutely unimportant.
>
>
> You can *only* have control over your actions if they are determined by
> your preferences, values, knowledge of the world and so on, which are
> acquired through experience and encoded in your brain. If your actions were
> not determined it would mean that they happened for no reason at all, not
> even a bad reason. If you had this sort of “free will” you would be unable
> to function and would die. Criminal behaviour would be the least of your
> problems.
>
> People who worry that they could not be free if their actions were
> determined often have not considered what the alternative would mean.
>
>> --
> Stathis Papaioannou
>
>
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> --
Stathis Papaioannou
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