[ExI] Possible seat of consciousness found

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at gmail.com
Sat Feb 22 18:16:51 UTC 2020


Thanks WIlliam,
That really helps.  The hardest part of all this is communicating it in a
way that people can understand.  It requires some significant reprogramming
of the way people think about color.  And if someone as brilliant as you is
struggling, what hope do I have with most neuroscientists, let alone lay
people?

We've got big plans and goals along this direction with the continued
development of this video <https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness/>.
It will sone have narration and a whole lot more.  Constantly improving.
So, once more if it is up, I hope you'll let me know if that helps, at all.
Thanks,
Brent

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 11:03 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I don't know if your ideas are over my head, under my head or what.  I
> just know that I don't understand them.  I read some of your and Stathis'
> stuff and say to myself "What the hell are they talking about?"  bill w
>
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 11:47 AM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Dang,
>>
>> Why is it always this?  Almost never does anyone say: "Wow, given your
>> arguments and videos, I now really understand how factual it is that we
>> don't know what color anything is.  There is no "hard mind body problem"
>> after all, it's just a color problem.  What can I do to help push this
>> theoretical field forward?  How about I join a camp or sign a petition, now
>> that I understand, so we can further amplify the wisdom of the crowd?
>>
>> Instead, it's always: "I don't belong in this conversation."
>>
>> I guess this is evidence supporting Max Planck's adage "Science
>> progresses one funeral at a time" ?
>>
>> Don't get me wrong.  I very much appreciate all you have provided to the
>> conversation.  That helped me better understand faults in my communication
>> methods, and to better understand how others think.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 7:57 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I said that I will bow out of this conversation and I will.  I don't
>>> belong in it.
>>>
>>> bill w
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 6:17 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi William,
>>>> Yes of course, all this is absolutely true.  Nobody is disaputing any
>>>> of this.
>>>> But you are completely missing the point.
>>>> That point is the initial cause of perception is what we are eating, or
>>>> looking at.
>>>> The final result is our conscious knowledge of that.
>>>> Our eyes, and everything else need to do lots of tricks (such as the 60
>>>> HZ saccades your are describing) so that we can have accurate and
>>>> consistent knowledge.
>>>> If our conscious knowledge of such, fades, because we are overriding
>>>> the tricks our eyes are attempting to do, this change or fading in our
>>>> awareness of what we are seeing is what we are talking about, which you
>>>> seem to be completely ignoring.
>>>> You just continue to map everything I say into  a world where this
>>>> changing conscious awareness isn't real or something.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 5:01 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Our eyes vibrate at 60 Hz.  If you overcome this with a special
>>>>> camera, you can focus light on the same cells continuously.  What the
>>>>> person reports is that the light fades and comes back, fades again and
>>>>> comes back.  The explanation is that with continuous stimulation the
>>>>> neurons cannot make enough transmitter substance fast enough to send a
>>>>> continuous signal to the brain.  So it rests for a brief time to make more
>>>>> transmitter substance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, continuously stimulating nose and tongue receptors makes
>>>>> the underlying neurons run out of transmitters, and so the signals to the
>>>>> brain get weaker and weaker, and thus so do the sensations.  These neurons
>>>>> do not recover as fast as the eye neurons do (I don't remember the down
>>>>> time data - absolute refractory period followed by relative refractory
>>>>> period (during which a stronger than usual stimulus can elicit a response),
>>>>> followed by normal sensation)..
>>>>>
>>>>> So we have real, measurable changes in neurons causing lessening
>>>>> reported sensations until the transmitters can be made in sufficient
>>>>> quantity again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course you can keep on eating even though the sensations diminish,
>>>>> or other reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> These changes are temporary, so of course they do not qualify as
>>>>> learning.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is from quite a while back.  I have not kept up with research on
>>>>> neurons.
>>>>>
>>>>> bill w
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 5:42 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi William,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 3:51 PM William Flynn Wallace via
>>>>>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK - just wanted to correct something I knew was false.  I don't
>>>>>>> know what kind of reality you are dealing with where those statements are
>>>>>>> true, but I'll stay out of it.  bill w
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, so let me see if I clearly understand your reality.
>>>>>> So, you say we continue to eat something that is not change, but our
>>>>>> perception of it 'fades'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In your reality, is the fact that something is 'fading" a change that
>>>>>> is not real, or this change doesn't exist?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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