[ExI] state of conflict technology

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Fri Jan 10 20:30:15 UTC 2020

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:22 PM Henry Rivera via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> The simplest globally accepted medical definition of addiction is the
> inability to control use resulting in significant impairment or distress.

Just sent off another post on addiction before I saw this from Henry.  If
we accept the definition above,then at one point I was addicted to both
cigarettes and alcohol, but after I quit both, I wasn't, since I had showed
the ability to control usage.  That really seems odd, doesn't  it?  But
it's mental health, and definitions are fought over ever year at
conventions, so I suppose that finding out how to treat people who ask for
help is more important than putting a label on them.  People who don't ask
are impossible, eh Henry?

One more thing:  I was not significantly impaired in any way as a result of
smoking and drinking, so where does that fit in?  I kept wanting to quit -
that was the only real symptom I had.  I taught my classes as well as I
could and never let any drug interfere with that - I loved it too much to
go in drunk.

bill w

bill w

bill w

> The study I referenced used the DSM-IV-TR definition of Substance
> Dependence which one can look up online. The current equivalent in the USA
> would be Substance Use Disorder, Severe in DSM 5 which one can also look up
> online.
> There is acceptance now of withdrawal from heavy cannabis use, but the
> symptoms are relatively mild and consist of disturbed sleep and
> irritability at worst. It’s rarely seen clinically in my experience. That
> is, people rarely feel compelled to seek professional help from this.
> However, meeting the criteria  for Dependence in the study I referenced
> would not require withdrawal. Just evidence of use of or acquiring the drug
> getting in the way of their functioning significantly. Things that would
> trigger normal people to say for example, “Hey, wait a minute.. what are my
> priorities here. This isn’t worth losing my job or relationship over. I
> better cut back or stop.” The Dependent person here would not be able to
> change their behaviors despite the negative impact in functioning.
> I am a clinical psychologist if you’re wondering, am a subject matter
> expert in substance use disorders and mind altering drugs, and have managed
> 2 substance use disorder treatment programs in my career. Currently I
> oversee an outpatient Mental Health Clinic, a Primary Care-Mental Health
> Integration Clinic, a Mental Health Walk-in and Inpatient Admissions
> Clinic, a disability determination clinic, and a Substance Use Disorders
> Clinic.
> -Henry
> On Jan 10, 2020, at 2:43 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> Here is me  two packs a day of Salems, probably a strong cigarette.  I did
> quit them cold turkey, after years of wanting to, but I'll bet you could
> have measured some physiological changes in me during the days after I
> quit. In other words, I did have a physical addiction.  I continued to want
> cigarettes for a few weeks but did not relapse at all.  It is arguable to
> my drinking a lot of coffee replaced the nicotine and so I had my dose of
> stimulants.  No, I did not turn into a coffee addict, though I do support
> the idea that there is such a thing.  Three cups at breakfast and no more.
> Good for you they now say.
> I took a big draw and inhaled a Salem ten years after I quit.  My
> thought?  "I could go back to two packs a day in a nanosecond."  Loved it.
> But just too deadly.  Did not want to die that way.  I suppose some idea of
> being weak entered my mind and did not want to be thought of as weak by my
> friends and family.  Ditto for alcohol.
> So by John's measure, want to quit but can't, I wasn't an addict.  I think
> I was, and had some withdrawal to prove it.  I cannot say what enabled me
> to quit.  Many will say 'willpower', but that's an elusive concept if there
> ever was one.  It's circular- you must have had enough willpower or you
> would not have been able to quit.  If you can't, it's not enough will
> power.  Nobody ever said how to get more.  Self-control is a better
> concept, like the Mischel study I posted the other day.  Some would say
> that if you haven't mastered self-control you are not yet an adult.  I
> wonder what percentage that would be.
> Cigarette smoking is probably stronger than heroin or at least as strong.
> Meth too, probably more so though I have not looked at that data.
> Re:  revealed preference.  I am glad to read the economics is finally
> getting on the band wagon: relying first and foremost on behavior.  People
> will say anything, especially to a health professional.  Kahneman helped
> that too in economics
> bill w
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 12:07 PM John Clark via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 12:33 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > It all depends on who gets to define addiction
>> I think a good definition of addiction is wanting to stop doing something
>> but being unable to force yourself to do so, by that definition cigarettes
>> smoking is about as addictive as Heroin. 74% of smokers want to stop but
>> each year only 6% actually manage to do so, do so and live that is, I'm not
>> counting those who stopped smoking because they died.
>>  John K Clark
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