[ExI] fanaticism, more

[William Flynn Wallace]

Now you are telling a psychologist that the basic cause of the behaviors
doesn't matter, only the effects.  Right?  How are we going to understand
people with an attitude like that?  bill w

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 9:45 PM SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I don’t see an appreciable difference in relation to fanaticism. If
> someone is violently anti-gay because they are gay, or because they feel
> they have been emasculated, what is the functional difference? It’s still
> fanaticism.
>
> SR Ballard
>
> On Jul 5, 2020, at 7:35 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> SR, what you are describing is called compensation.  What I described is
> called overcompensation, in which the conscious and unconscious things are
> the same:  the 100 lb weakling becomes a strong man. bill w
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 6:10 PM SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Oh, I understand the fanaticism. I was a bit of a fanatic at one point.
>>
>> It is as was described. You have a deep-seated fear you are covering up.
>>
>> But the fear doesn’t have to match the action. Like if you’re strongly
>> religious it doesn’t have to be from religious doubt, it could be a doubt
>> about your physical health. You could be strongly anti-gay because you have
>> an eating disorder. And so on.
>>
>> A classic is anti-gay because of sexual abuse of a boy by a man.
>>
>> SR Ballard
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2020, at 11:56 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Eschew taking extremist views.  There is too much risk of realizing
>> someday that you have invested most of your life fighting passionately for
>> the wrong side.
>>
>>
>>
>> spike
>>
>>
>> I don't think that any of us can understand the fervor of these people.
>> They have to go all out or they will punish themselves for wimpy efforts.
>> In other words, they are driven to extreme positions.  Why didn't some of
>> the people who were burned at the stake recant and live longer?  Because
>> they could not live with themselves if they did that.  I feel quite sure
>> that that was the case with Giordano Bruno.   bill w
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 10:44 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Excellent post BillW.  I will leave it all in there without trimming a
>>> word of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have long suspected extremists in anything are a mixture of people
>>> struggling to talk themselves out of their own self-doubt, plus false
>>> flaggers, plus people who just like taking some extreme position.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My view on it is this (free spike-ism (you’re welcome.)):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eschew taking extremist views.  There is too much risk of realizing
>>> someday that you have invested most of your life fighting passionately for
>>> the wrong side.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> spike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> *On
>>> Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 5, 2020 8:25 AM
>>> *To:* ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>>> *Cc:* William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* [ExI] fanaticism, more
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fanaticism is said to have many sociological roots, and you can find
>>> those all over the web.  But I didn’t find much on psychological causes, so
>>> here’s a few thoughts:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The obsessive is capable of making very fine distinctions.  One book
>>> about it features a man who discovers he is 1/32 Negroid and he is
>>> subsequently ostracized.  (Kingblood Royal -Sinclair Lewis).  This will
>>> also make the person a bit of a purist - things just have to be a certain
>>> way and even slight deviations from it are not permitted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you pair this with paranoia, then deviations can be imagined rather
>>> than real.  Anything slightly indicative becomes a certainty.  If you pair
>>> those with religious content, you get a person who will try to make others
>>> believe and act the same as him, even if they have to be forced, like
>>> Islamists and Christians did a few centuries ago.  Or just killed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A recent study of people who were extremely antihomosexual were found to
>>> have unconscious tendencies to it themselves, just as many people imagined
>>> that they did.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A further factor is overcompensation and reaction formation:  if you are
>>> a latent homosexual but do not realize it you are very likely to be a
>>> powerful, even violent antihomosexual.  The inner feelings have to be
>>> powerfully defended against by conscious feelings of the opposite (which is
>>> often called reaction formation).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So many fanatics are not what they think they are.  If religious, then
>>> the strong doubts about the validity of the religion have to be powerfully
>>> opposed by the conscious opposites.  Does this mean that some of the people
>>> ranting about racism are unconscious racists?  Of course it does.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bill w
>>>
>>>
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