[ExI] Essential Upload Data

Stathis Papaioannou stathisp at gmail.com
Thu May 21 16:54:34 UTC 2020

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 00:40, Re Rose via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Hm. To be clear, I'm saying two distinct things: 1) you can't make a copy
> because information will be missing. 2) as far as a truly exact copy, I
> think that would be its own agent, it will not be you.
> The information and circumstance that makes you be you is not found in the
> replacement of the atoms in your body. These are placed each instance in
> time conditioned by the existing boundary conditions of your existing,
> active functional biological systems (ie, replacing atoms or even neurons
> in your brain will not interrupt already entrained neuro-hormonal or
> neurotransmitter feedback cycles. Replacing atoms or cells or healing
> tissue in your gut will not totally disrupt the existing gut biome. Etc etc
> etc).

I don’t see the point you are making. The repair systems work continuously
and do not normally disrupt physiological processes, but what if they did:
would you no longer be you?

Such placement is always informated by your active cycles and/or systems.
> That is the information that I keep saying will not be able to be copied.
> It is information that is part of the whole, and not reducible.
> So yes, I'm persistantly me, even though some of me was in that scone I
> ate with John (lol).
> -Regina
> -------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 23:09:30 +1000
> From: Stathis Papaioannou <stathisp at gmail.com>
> To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Subject: Re: [ExI] Essential Upload Data
> Message-ID:
>         <CAH=
> 2ypWNu95d0WA0St1iojCtj34v0eZzOhtXCY2Vsror4o8L5A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 20:58, Re Rose via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > Hiya Ben - It was a rhetorical question, I'm pointing out as a thought
> > experiment that a "perfect" copy of you in a "perfect" agent copy of your
> > body would believe it is you. In fact, IMHO, there would be no way to
> prove
> > to this new agent (i.e., person) that it is *not *you. The only agent in
> > the universe who would know that the copy was not you would be....wait
> for
> > it....YOU. Every other person in the world will think it is you (if it
> is a
> > perfect copy - which I have tried to show in my previous grillion posts
> is
> > likely impossible - i.e., no perfect copy can be made).
> >
> > Of course a copy of you can be someone other than you. It is. It is a new
> > person. It is not you, even if it thinks it is you. And, you and only can
> > know it's not you. Go back to my coffee-and-scone thought experiment.
> Can I
> > shoot you? If you belive I can because you will magically be "in" the
> copy
> > - tell me how, please. And where does the consciousness in the copy go?
> > You'll be being just as mean as I accused John of being (LOL). You can't
> > just take over another person's body!  That's just rude.
> >
> > The copy becomes its own agent as soon as its online. You can't access
> > it.  Death does not allow a magical transmogrification into agents you
> wish
> > to occupy.
> >
> > Oh, and the symmetrical room problem is a red herring. It only works by
> > confusion. You always gonna be you.
> >
> > -Regina
> > -----------------------------
> >
> If you don?t believe that a copy of you is really you then to be consistent
> you should not believe that you are really you, since through normal
> metabolic processes the matter in your body is replaced with matter from
> the food, water and air you consume, and the original matter excreted into
> the biosphere.
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Stathis Papaioannou
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