[ExI] communism/authoritarianism

John Grigg possiblepaths2050 at gmail.com
Sun Sep 20 13:03:38 UTC 2020


> People/groups seem to demonize each other, rather than being able to
> communicate with those of differing views. This is not a good thing. A
> classic belief is that when this happens, those at the very top are
pleased,
> because their game is divide and conquer.

When I wrote the above statement, I was referring to the average angry
person on social media, or in a heated argument on the street. I fully
agree with you in regards to the police and how they are often out of
control and dangerous. When I talk about those at the very top, I mean
those who see the police themselves as their useful pawns to keep the
proles in line.

>I wonder if that's not being overstated or if it's ignoring the past.
>From my reading of history, the riots of the 1960s and 1970s seem far
>worse. For instance, I live in Seattle (and not in Oz as someone here
>thought) and I don't see a city wrecked because of the protests.

And yet insurers are saying the damage from the vandalism and looting
exceeds one billion dollars. And this included a science fiction bookshop I
had always hoped to visit.

Please consider donating to their rebuilding fund...

https://locusmag.com/2020/05/uncle-hugos-bookstore-burned-down/

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 3:00 AM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 5:44 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > How can anyone want a hereditary monarchy, if they are at all acquainted
> > with world history? Lol Over the long-term, it is the road to civil war,
> horrible
> > rulers and chaos... Michael Anissimov hurt his reputation with such
> ideas.
>
> Through a highly selective reading of history (though not necessarily
> intentionally so) that focuses on the best cases and ignore even the
> bad aspects of those?
>
> > I would like to give AGI a shot at ruling society, or at least
> co-ruling. But then
> > they may get ideas about crime & punishment, and how to curb
> over-population,
> > that chill our blood.
>
> I've often heard the scenario put forth to Biblical literalists of a
> robot programmed to enforce biblical rules. Would they care to live
> under that robot's rule?
>
> > I worry about how the rioting has not gone away, but may instead be a
> permanent
> > part of the new normal. We have seen millions of dollars damage done from
> > vandalism & looting, and many people hurt.
>
> I wonder if that's not being overstated or if it's ignoring the past.
> From my reading of history, the riots of the 1960s and 1970s seem far
> worse. For instance, I live in Seattle (and not in Oz as someone here
> thought) and I don't see a city wrecked because of the protests. In
> fact, if you're not near the major protest areas and were otherwise
> ignorant about them you might wonder what's all the fuss. A few square
> blocks on Capitol Hill, for example, amount to something less than 1%
> of the city. Yet if you only know this from news footage you might
> presume people in Seattle are under siege by protesters and the whole
> city is burning down.
>
> > But at the same time, l am skeptical about cities truly reforming their
> police forces, once the pressure to do so goes away.
>
> There are a few cities that have 'defunded' their police. Camden, NJ
> did, though that was years ago. But there's been a lot of effective
> pushback by police unions and lobbyists that pretty much stopped in
> getting rid of qualified immunity in places like Virginia. See:
>
>
> https://reason.com/2020/09/16/virginia-democrats-declined-to-end-qualified-immunity-police-unions-are-alive-and-well/
>
> > People/groups seem to demonize each other, rather than being able to
> > communicate with those of differing views. This is not a good thing. A
> > classic belief is that when this happens, those at the very top are
> pleased,
> > because their game is divide and conquer.
>
> That might be, but the police seem to deserve some demonization here,
> especially after decades or more of being treated as only having a
> 'few bad apples' -- bad apples that almost always are protected and
> promoted. And there's a lot of police misconduct aside from killing
> people. Things like this:
>
> https://reason.com/2019/02/09/the-chemists-and-the-cover-up/
>
> A great book on some of this is _Failed Evidence: Why Law Enforcement
> Resists Science_ by David Harris. It's a few years old now, but it
> shows how police and prosecutors rarely QA their work leading to lives
> being ruined. Is there any other legal profession anyone interacts
> with where you might end up in prison, losing everything, wrongly on
> an offenders list, seriously injured, your dog shot, or even dead
> almost as a matter of routine?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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