[ExI] Arrogance

Max More max at maxmore.com
Mon Aug 30 20:18:37 UTC 2021

To put this conversation on a slightly firmer foundation, here are some indexes (indices if you prefer) of freedom. I'm most familiar with the one from the Fraser Institute but will try to look through each to get a sense of their pros and cons.

Some of these may have changed significantly since last updated. For instance, I would expect Australia to fall down quite a bit due to their overbearing (and failing) response to Covid.







In case that's not enough:

From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> on behalf of Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 11:23 AM
To: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: Ben Zaiboc <ben at zaiboc.net>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Arrogance

On 30/08/2021 17:04, bill w wrote:
> OK Ben, I will challenge you on those:  responsibility, freedom, power
> - where are you getting your data about those losses?   bill w

Well, Stuart suggested that there is a 'Great Experiment' underway, to
determine how much freedom, power, and responsibility a society can
entrust to its individuals.

I don't see that that is the case.

Individual freedom, power and responsibility don't seem to be
increasing, but rather decreasing.

There is ever-increasing surveillance and tracking, making the kind of
control you see in China possible, and the slow but steady erosion of
cash (preventing the use of cash, which seems to be the end-point of
this trend, is a great way to control people)

Corporate lobbying is leading to more and more laws that benefit the
corporations at the expense of the people. There are a few attempts to
counter this (Freedom to Tinker movement, EFF, etc.), but not nearly
enough, and hardly effective on the whole.

The spread of ultra-PC memes in society is leading to 'chilling
effects', suppression of individuality and free speech, for fear of
ostracism, not to mention the corrosive effect on education and mental

The continual efforts to extend the concept of 'software as a service'
to digital goods leads in the direction of it being impossible to own
(and thus do whatever you like with) things like books, music, films, etc.

Would you say there's more, or less bureaucracy now, compared with say
100 years ago?

Remember the threat of your Clown President, just a few years ago? To
remove the very thing that was mentioned here as being one of the best
things about America? (the freedom to criticise, if you don't know what
I mean). Hardly a sign of increasing freedom, even if it was never going
to fly.

What evidence would you present in favour of this 'Great Experiment' idea?


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