From danust2012 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  1 01:49:01 2022
From: danust2012 at gmail.com (Dan TheBookMan)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:49:01 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Hibernation for travel to Mars
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>

On Jan 31, 2022, at 1:28 PM, BillK via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> ?Hibernate for a trip to Mars, the bear way
> 31/01/2022    ESA / Science & Exploration / Human and Robotic Exploration
> 
> Hibernating astronauts could be the best way to save mission costs,
> reduce the size of spacecraft by a third and keep crew healthy on
> their way to Mars. An ESA-led investigation suggests that human
> hibernation goes beyond the realm of science-fiction and may become a
> game-changing technique for space travel.
> 
> <https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/Hibernate_for_a_trip_to_Mars_the_bear_way>
> 
> Quote:
> Bears seem to be the best role model for human hibernation in space.
> They have similar body mass to us and reduce their body temperature
> only by a few degrees ? a limit considered safe for humans. Like
> bears, astronauts should acquire extra body fat before falling into a
> slumber.
> 
> During hibernation, brown and black bears retreat into their dens and
> experience six months of fasting and immobilisation. If a person
> spends six months in bed, there is a major loss of muscle, bone
> strength and more risk of heart failure.
> 
> ?However, research shows that bears exit their den healthily in spring
> with only marginal loss of muscle mass. It only takes them about 20
> days to be back to normal. This teaches us that hibernation prevents
> disuse atrophy of muscle and bone, and protects against tissue
> damage,? explains Alexander Chouk?r, professor of Medicine at the
> Ludwig Maximilians University in Munich, Germany.
> ----------------
> 
> I don't think I'd let the whole crew sleep through the journey and
> trust the computer to wake them up.
> It could be a literal 'Blue screen of death' if an unexpected error
> occurred. The ship would need to have an emergency wakeup system
> for problems or computer failure.  Or maybe have a rota for sleepy-time.
> 
> Back on Earth, hibernation could also be a method of time-travel into
> the future.

I?d definitely want rotating crew watches over emergency wake-up. Also, have the usual redundancies and independent systems stuff.

Some of this might be moot by the time crewed interplanetary missions happen because of lowering launch costs and potential to build stuff in space. If the resources are there and the costs are much lower, no reason to hibernate for the short trip to Mars. I?d still keep doing the R&D for it. 

Regards,

Dan

From spike at rainier66.com  Tue Feb  1 17:45:16 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 09:45:16 -0800
Subject: [ExI] ai commentary
Message-ID: <005001d81793$796197e0$6c24c7a0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

 

Chess.com offers what they are billing as a software chess teacher who goes over your games and suggests improvements.  It is a fun little toy kinda, but really it is little more than software-generated wisecracks.

 

It really has me thinking about how to make my own instructional software which produces little more than software-generated wisecracks.  That would be a hoot.

 

I was playing black in a timed game (10 minute, no increment, already running short on time but he wasn?t, higher rated opponent 1920-something) and I was clearly getting my ass whooped.

 

In this position, playing black, I found the move which stirred the Chess.com software?s artificial soul and gained me its artificial admiration.

 

>From this position, black to play, I put mate on the board under time pressure in 7 more moves, the last three of which were forced.

 

Chess is a terrible waste of an otherwise functional mind.

 

I want to write software which instructs proles using witty instructional sarcasm

 

spike

 

 



 

 

Black to play and win.

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From brent.allsop at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 16:25:18 2022
From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 09:25:18 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Hibernation for travel to Mars
In-Reply-To: <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK7-onvWagUYj4nmPS-3tC+koqkCtbs5vQnd67dLw6gFOrFV8g@mail.gmail.com>

Why does everyone, especially Elon Musk, get this completely bass ackwards.
We need to cure aging, and achieve the ability to redesign our bodies for
space travel (so we don't need spacesuits, food...) and so we can back them
up and restore them... FIRST.
THEN we can go play in space.

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:50 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Jan 31, 2022, at 1:28 PM, BillK via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > ?Hibernate for a trip to Mars, the bear way
> > 31/01/2022    ESA / Science & Exploration / Human and Robotic Exploration
> >
> > Hibernating astronauts could be the best way to save mission costs,
> > reduce the size of spacecraft by a third and keep crew healthy on
> > their way to Mars. An ESA-led investigation suggests that human
> > hibernation goes beyond the realm of science-fiction and may become a
> > game-changing technique for space travel.
> >
> > <
> https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/Hibernate_for_a_trip_to_Mars_the_bear_way
> >
> >
> > Quote:
> > Bears seem to be the best role model for human hibernation in space.
> > They have similar body mass to us and reduce their body temperature
> > only by a few degrees ? a limit considered safe for humans. Like
> > bears, astronauts should acquire extra body fat before falling into a
> > slumber.
> >
> > During hibernation, brown and black bears retreat into their dens and
> > experience six months of fasting and immobilisation. If a person
> > spends six months in bed, there is a major loss of muscle, bone
> > strength and more risk of heart failure.
> >
> > ?However, research shows that bears exit their den healthily in spring
> > with only marginal loss of muscle mass. It only takes them about 20
> > days to be back to normal. This teaches us that hibernation prevents
> > disuse atrophy of muscle and bone, and protects against tissue
> > damage,? explains Alexander Chouk?r, professor of Medicine at the
> > Ludwig Maximilians University in Munich, Germany.
> > ----------------
> >
> > I don't think I'd let the whole crew sleep through the journey and
> > trust the computer to wake them up.
> > It could be a literal 'Blue screen of death' if an unexpected error
> > occurred. The ship would need to have an emergency wakeup system
> > for problems or computer failure.  Or maybe have a rota for sleepy-time.
> >
> > Back on Earth, hibernation could also be a method of time-travel into
> > the future.
>
> I?d definitely want rotating crew watches over emergency wake-up. Also,
> have the usual redundancies and independent systems stuff.
>
> Some of this might be moot by the time crewed interplanetary missions
> happen because of lowering launch costs and potential to build stuff in
> space. If the resources are there and the costs are much lower, no reason
> to hibernate for the short trip to Mars. I?d still keep doing the R&D for
> it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From atymes at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 17:25:51 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 09:25:51 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Hibernation for travel to Mars
In-Reply-To: <CAK7-onvWagUYj4nmPS-3tC+koqkCtbs5vQnd67dLw6gFOrFV8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvWagUYj4nmPS-3tC+koqkCtbs5vQnd67dLw6gFOrFV8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNSorxeTBV-QwBbXCgV3Qh5Z+Yx5cfn26fhPf0-HShBWUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm, I'd say it's more that nuclear engines - and thus, fast enough trips
to Mars - need to be put int0 production before we send people to Mars.
But yeah, this is optimizing for current technical limits when it is easier
(and less expensive) to just break those limits first.

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 8:27 AM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Why does everyone, especially Elon Musk, get this completely bass ackwards.
> We need to cure aging, and achieve the ability to redesign our bodies for
> space travel (so we don't need spacesuits, food...) and so we can back them
> up and restore them... FIRST.
> THEN we can go play in space.
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:50 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 31, 2022, at 1:28 PM, BillK via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > ?Hibernate for a trip to Mars, the bear way
>> > 31/01/2022    ESA / Science & Exploration / Human and Robotic
>> Exploration
>> >
>> > Hibernating astronauts could be the best way to save mission costs,
>> > reduce the size of spacecraft by a third and keep crew healthy on
>> > their way to Mars. An ESA-led investigation suggests that human
>> > hibernation goes beyond the realm of science-fiction and may become a
>> > game-changing technique for space travel.
>> >
>> > <
>> https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/Hibernate_for_a_trip_to_Mars_the_bear_way
>> >
>> >
>> > Quote:
>> > Bears seem to be the best role model for human hibernation in space.
>> > They have similar body mass to us and reduce their body temperature
>> > only by a few degrees ? a limit considered safe for humans. Like
>> > bears, astronauts should acquire extra body fat before falling into a
>> > slumber.
>> >
>> > During hibernation, brown and black bears retreat into their dens and
>> > experience six months of fasting and immobilisation. If a person
>> > spends six months in bed, there is a major loss of muscle, bone
>> > strength and more risk of heart failure.
>> >
>> > ?However, research shows that bears exit their den healthily in spring
>> > with only marginal loss of muscle mass. It only takes them about 20
>> > days to be back to normal. This teaches us that hibernation prevents
>> > disuse atrophy of muscle and bone, and protects against tissue
>> > damage,? explains Alexander Chouk?r, professor of Medicine at the
>> > Ludwig Maximilians University in Munich, Germany.
>> > ----------------
>> >
>> > I don't think I'd let the whole crew sleep through the journey and
>> > trust the computer to wake them up.
>> > It could be a literal 'Blue screen of death' if an unexpected error
>> > occurred. The ship would need to have an emergency wakeup system
>> > for problems or computer failure.  Or maybe have a rota for sleepy-time.
>> >
>> > Back on Earth, hibernation could also be a method of time-travel into
>> > the future.
>>
>> I?d definitely want rotating crew watches over emergency wake-up. Also,
>> have the usual redundancies and independent systems stuff.
>>
>> Some of this might be moot by the time crewed interplanetary missions
>> happen because of lowering launch costs and potential to build stuff in
>> space. If the resources are there and the costs are much lower, no reason
>> to hibernate for the short trip to Mars. I?d still keep doing the R&D for
>> it.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dan
>> _______________________________________________
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 17:51:26 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 17:51:26 +0000
Subject: [ExI] Hibernation for travel to Mars
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNSorxeTBV-QwBbXCgV3Qh5Z+Yx5cfn26fhPf0-HShBWUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvWagUYj4nmPS-3tC+koqkCtbs5vQnd67dLw6gFOrFV8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALAdGNSorxeTBV-QwBbXCgV3Qh5Z+Yx5cfn26fhPf0-HShBWUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armj3fMOS3g7FYs6P59OSc3NkNhUODOYPwqYJAb-DOv1ZjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 at 17:29, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Hmm, I'd say it's more that nuclear engines - and thus, fast enough trips to Mars - need to be put int0 production before we send people to Mars.  But yeah, this is optimizing for current technical limits when it is easier (and less expensive) to just break those limits first.
> _______________________________________________
>


That's the exponential progress problem. Do we do nothing now because
in five years time it will be so much easier and better? It's the old theme
about early starships being overtaken on their lengthy journey by
faster next generation starships.
It may be best to try with existing tech because tomorrow's tech might
never arrive. And we might learn something important while making our
first feeble attempts.  :)



BillK


From atymes at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 18:18:48 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 10:18:48 -0800
Subject: [ExI] Hibernation for travel to Mars
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armj3fMOS3g7FYs6P59OSc3NkNhUODOYPwqYJAb-DOv1ZjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvWagUYj4nmPS-3tC+koqkCtbs5vQnd67dLw6gFOrFV8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALAdGNSorxeTBV-QwBbXCgV3Qh5Z+Yx5cfn26fhPf0-HShBWUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armj3fMOS3g7FYs6P59OSc3NkNhUODOYPwqYJAb-DOv1ZjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNR9NaUobvbLq6WTdt81QwJDkEruejgicLRQMVu5QZJ2jA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:54 AM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> That's the exponential progress problem. Do we do nothing now because
> in five years time it will be so much easier and better? It's the old theme
> about early starships being overtaken on their lengthy journey by
> faster next generation starships.
> It may be best to try with existing tech because tomorrow's tech might
> never arrive. And we might learn something important while making our
> first feeble attempts.  :)
>

While that is true, said attempts should also keep in mind potential future
advances.

Sending robot probes to sample and set up for in-situ resource utilization
is a useful thing to do.

Setting up a whole new infrastructure for hibernation seems likely to be
obsolete before it could be deployed.
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From brent.allsop at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 18:49:55 2022
From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:49:55 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Hibernation for travel to Mars
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNR9NaUobvbLq6WTdt81QwJDkEruejgicLRQMVu5QZJ2jA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjAxHAi1Sx2QXkUXcxfPX7skxm9CNKfejEMHc6VBxUg2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <94F7DBF1-9A08-40BB-8607-95A83016E1A4@gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvWagUYj4nmPS-3tC+koqkCtbs5vQnd67dLw6gFOrFV8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALAdGNSorxeTBV-QwBbXCgV3Qh5Z+Yx5cfn26fhPf0-HShBWUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armj3fMOS3g7FYs6P59OSc3NkNhUODOYPwqYJAb-DOv1ZjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALAdGNR9NaUobvbLq6WTdt81QwJDkEruejgicLRQMVu5QZJ2jA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK7-ontxOp3zGsj3uF0S4ZhyuBdfiqXb1DTMUaBetfKfgjUg0w@mail.gmail.com>

Right, and send robot ships to set up body constructors at target
locations, so we can travel at the speed of light (communication), landing
in a new body, custom designed and built on location, for whatever the
target environment is.





On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 11:19 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:54 AM BillK via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> That's the exponential progress problem. Do we do nothing now because
>> in five years time it will be so much easier and better? It's the old
>> theme
>> about early starships being overtaken on their lengthy journey by
>> faster next generation starships.
>> It may be best to try with existing tech because tomorrow's tech might
>> never arrive. And we might learn something important while making our
>> first feeble attempts.  :)
>>
>
> While that is true, said attempts should also keep in mind potential
> future advances.
>
> Sending robot probes to sample and set up for in-situ resource utilization
> is a useful thing to do.
>
> Setting up a whole new infrastructure for hibernation seems likely to be
> obsolete before it could be deployed.
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb  3 05:23:24 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 21:23:24 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
Message-ID: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>

 

 

At 2:22 this afternoon, the thought occurred to me that it would be even
cooler had this fallen on a Tuesday.

 

spie

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From atymes at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 05:42:10 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 21:42:10 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>

2/22/22 will.

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:25 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> At 2:22 this afternoon, the thought occurred to me that it would be even
> cooler had this fallen on a Tuesday.
>
>
>
> spie
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb  3 05:52:20 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 21:52:20 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>

Good catch Adrian.

 

You and I, along with anyone else in the Pacific time zone, get another chance in half an hour: 22:22:22 on 2/2/22 will happen in half an hour.

 

spike

 

From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 9:42 PM
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ExI] 2/2/22

 

2/22/22 will.

 

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:25 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

 

 

At 2:22 this afternoon, the thought occurred to me that it would be even cooler had this fallen on a Tuesday.

 

spie

_______________________________________________
extropy-chat mailing list
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> 
http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat

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From atymes at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 06:29:35 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 22:29:35 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNRbYfZEPnUCFpc117ExYcsuZQgngp2uSnLcquUikk8u4g@mail.gmail.com>

...and I just now saw your email.  (Check the timestamp on this email.)

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:53 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Good catch Adrian.
>
>
>
> You and I, along with anyone else in the Pacific time zone, get another
> chance in half an hour: 22:22:22 on 2/2/22 will happen in half an hour.
>
>
>
> spike
>
>
>
> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> *On Behalf
> Of *Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 2, 2022 9:42 PM
> *To:* ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> *Cc:* Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] 2/2/22
>
>
>
> 2/22/22 will.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:25 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> At 2:22 this afternoon, the thought occurred to me that it would be even
> cooler had this fallen on a Tuesday.
>
>
>
> spie
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
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> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb  3 06:30:05 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 22:30:05 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <002101d818c7$7bb7a0e0$7326e2a0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com> 
Subject: RE: [ExI] 2/2/22

 

 

>?2/2/2222 will.

 

 

Good catch Adrian.

 

You and I, along with anyone else in the Pacific time zone, get another chance in half an hour: 22:22:22 on 2/2/22 will happen in half an hour.

 

spike

 

 

 



 

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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb  3 14:17:11 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2022 06:17:11 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNRbYfZEPnUCFpc117ExYcsuZQgngp2uSnLcquUikk8u4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRbYfZEPnUCFpc117ExYcsuZQgngp2uSnLcquUikk8u4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002e01d81908$bd27bb00$37773100$@rainier66.com>

 

 

 

Oh that?s just 2 cool.

 

spike

 

 

 

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 22:22
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ExI] 2/2/22

 

...and I just now saw your email.  (Check the timestamp on this email.)

 

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 9:53 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

Good catch Adrian.

 

You and I, along with anyone else in the Pacific time zone, get another chance in half an hour: 22:22:22 on 2/2/22 will happen in half an hour.

 

spike

 

 

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From msd001 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 18:04:38 2022
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2022 13:04:38 -0500
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <002e01d81908$bd27bb00$37773100$@rainier66.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRbYfZEPnUCFpc117ExYcsuZQgngp2uSnLcquUikk8u4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002e01d81908$bd27bb00$37773100$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdbJzA4afgn9RCFX3Z2-GxqJKXU9NS+7bCKAt+QbcKZwxrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 9:20 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>  [ much ado about 2 ]
>
What makes geek out over this arbitrary identifier?

2:22:22 happens every day
22 day happens every month
2 month every year

So what level of confluence warrants the attention?

I'm not trying to be a curmudgeon or a killjoy, more like trying to get at
the weird compulsion we have as pattern detectors

I have been observing a digital time display in the reflection off the
nightstand and am surprised by the frequency that the reflection is a valid
time. Ex: 3:25 has reflective symmetry with 3:52, which is also a valid
time.  Yeah, these might be nuisance thoughts, but I do the math for the
interval between the times: 33 minutes.  Then I considered the probability
that any minute of the day has a valid reflection.  1,3,8 are self-similar,
2 and 5 are reflective.  Digits 4,6,7,9 break this relation.

I got very confused listing the groups to count exact probability, but over
many instances of noticing that clock it seems more likely than intuition
might have first suspected. (There may be some bias around daily routine
looking at a bedside clock)  so yeah, interesting math problems from a
curious observation of a clock.  I think I'm in good company on this, even
if that company are rare weirdos. :)

>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb  3 18:32:18 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2022 10:32:18 -0800
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <CAOJFdbJzA4afgn9RCFX3Z2-GxqJKXU9NS+7bCKAt+QbcKZwxrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRbYfZEPnUCFpc117ExYcsuZQgngp2uSnLcquUikk8u4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002e01d81908$bd27bb00$37773100$@rainier66.com>
 <CAOJFdbJzA4afgn9RCFX3Z2-GxqJKXU9NS+7bCKAt+QbcKZwxrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002d01d8192c$60616280$21242780$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] 2/2/22

 

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 9:20 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

 [ much ado about 2 ]

>?What makes geek out over this arbitrary identifier?  

 

2:22:22 happens every day

22 day happens every month

2 month every year

 

>?So what level of confluence warrants the attention?

 

>?I'm not trying to be a curmudgeon or a killjoy, more like trying to get at the weird compulsion we have as pattern detectors?.  I think I'm in good company on this, even if that company are rare weirdos. :)  Mike

 

 

 

Great question Mike, thx.  I am on my way out the door for another matter, but I will offer this notion: the reason we love patterns and the reason why poker is such a popular card game all over the world, valuing one group of cards over another, when every randomly-dealt hand is exactly equally probable with every other: it is because we, as a species, survived and dominated the planet as a result of superior pattern-recognition ability.  We aren?t the fastest, we aren?t the anything really, but we are the best species at recognizing patterns in everything, then figuring out how to make those patterns work for us.  We can go anywhere we want on the planet, work with the familiar patterns, extrapolate into technology, and there we are.

 

Evolutionary psychology explains why we humans love patterns.  It explains why we love chess and poker and other pattern recognition games.  Hell we even made intelligence tests which were really all about pattern recognition, gotta scoot, pls Mike your thoughts?

 

spike

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From msd001 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  4 02:04:00 2022
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2022 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [ExI] 2/2/22
In-Reply-To: <002d01d8192c$60616280$21242780$@rainier66.com>
References: <000a01d818be$2b4d2ac0$81e78040$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNQYO5ij7U_17cDLS+cR6ePN_qewmgd2jXPSfaF77mh7wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001801d818c2$359244d0$a0b6ce70$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRbYfZEPnUCFpc117ExYcsuZQgngp2uSnLcquUikk8u4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002e01d81908$bd27bb00$37773100$@rainier66.com>
 <CAOJFdbJzA4afgn9RCFX3Z2-GxqJKXU9NS+7bCKAt+QbcKZwxrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002d01d8192c$60616280$21242780$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdb+_OGPKEhqeWbx_n9vjEGnzSQZWv76s-E8Y5Ygw9f0Fgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 1:34 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Evolutionary psychology explains why we humans love patterns.  It explains
> why we love chess and poker and other pattern recognition games.  Hell we
> even made intelligence tests which were really all about pattern
> recognition, gotta scoot, pls Mike your thoughts?
>
EP certainly is a useful framework for asserting cause&effect.  I suspect
pattern recognition is connected with an energy efficiency equation:
braining is expensive, so after the initial cost (gather observations,
explore/test hypothesis) the pattern is leveraged/exploited to save future
energy expenditure.

Is intelligence the boundary between further expenditure exploring options
for better "best fit" pattern (or principle) and using good enough pattern
for quicker breakeven to ROI?

>
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From gadersd at gmail.com  Sat Feb  5 14:18:08 2022
From: gadersd at gmail.com (Hermes Trismegistus)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 09:18:08 -0500
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal
Message-ID: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>

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From spike at rainier66.com  Sat Feb  5 14:38:23 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 06:38:23 -0800
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal
In-Reply-To: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>
References: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <002e01d81a9e$07c2c6f0$174854d0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of Hermes Trismegistus via extropy-chat
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal

 

Three days ago my dad and I received our JNJ COVID booster shots. I grew horribly sick from the so called ?minor? side effects. My dad faired better, but still felt quite sick a few hours after getting vaccinated. He was concerned and got tested for COVID. The tested turned up positive. I soon decided to get tested as well, but I turned up negative. My dad before this never had symptoms that warranted a test. What is the best interpretation of this situation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He caught omicron, which isn?t a severe disease for many people.  You suffered from an immune system reaction to the vaccine, which is severe for some people.  I see nothing mysterious in that outcome.  We have been told that omicron is a severe disease and that the vaccines are without risk of bad side effects.  Neither are true, certainly not universally.

 

On the bright side, Hermes: you are now less likely to suffer from alpha or delta.  The vaccine probably won?t stop omicron, but that variant apparently also helps you resist the other variants.

 

May you and your family recover quickly and fully.  We wish you the very best.

 

spike

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From gadersd at gmail.com  Sat Feb  5 15:21:30 2022
From: gadersd at gmail.com (Hermes Trismegistus)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 10:21:30 -0500
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal
In-Reply-To: <002e01d81a9e$07c2c6f0$174854d0$@rainier66.com>
References: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>,
 <002e01d81a9e$07c2c6f0$174854d0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <0E229C63-07B6-4EF7-A6B5-FB4316144F25@hxcore.ol>

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From spike at rainier66.com  Sat Feb  5 15:47:06 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 07:47:06 -0800
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal
In-Reply-To: <0E229C63-07B6-4EF7-A6B5-FB4316144F25@hxcore.ol>
References: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>,
 <002e01d81a9e$07c2c6f0$174854d0$@rainier66.com>
 <0E229C63-07B6-4EF7-A6B5-FB4316144F25@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <005e01d81aa7$a14369c0$e3ca3d40$@rainier66.com>

 

 

 

From: spike jones via extropy-chat <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> 



From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> > On Behalf Of Hermes Trismegistus via extropy-chat
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal

 

>>>?Three days ago my dad and I received our JNJ COVID booster shots. I grew horribly sick from the so called ?minor? side effects. My dad faired better, but still felt quite sick a few hours after getting vaccinated? Hermes

 

 

 

>>?He caught omicron, which isn?t a severe disease for many people.  You suffered from an immune system reaction to the vaccine?spike

 

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Hermes Trismegistus via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal

 

>?My thoughts were that he had omicron, but the condition was so minor that he experienced no symptoms. Does the vaccine increase sensitivity to the point that omicron infections that would usually go unnoticed, suddenly become quite severe?  Hermes

 

 

 

Eh, hard to say Hermes.  It might be that the previous vaccine (assuming he had one before this one) may have reduced the impact of omicron.  People who have never been vaccinated caught omicron, some got really sick, others described it as a mild flu, everything in between.  We have people who were treated with ivermectin, with chloroquine, with monoclonal antibodies, people who refuse to say what they did and how it turned out, people who do say and are booted off of mainstream internet platforms because it isn?t that platform?s favored policy.

 

Result: after all this time, we still don?t know how well those vaccines work and what the side effects are, damn.

 

You may recall my interest in learning what happens when someone gets a dozen of these shots, perhaps becoming a professional vaccine passport collector for profit.  I still want to know that answer, and my logic tells me that such people exist.  If that information is out there, I don?t have it.

 

Note that when covid started a coupla years ago, we knew that viruses in general tend to evolve in a direction where the subsequent variants are more contagious and less lethal, but confer some immunity from their predecessors.  It looks to me like that?s what omicron did: mostly displaced alpha and delta, but rides like a typical flu bug.

 

spike

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From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 09:04:33 2022
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 04:04:33 -0500
Subject: [ExI] COVID booster shot question for Rafal
In-Reply-To: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>
References: <04F5EA2D-7D97-4445-A800-92F63246FE52@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <CAAc1gFjhaBhnJQREKuxbcyk2CxZhe4Lr3wYuTvHogDu4nmgU-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 9:20 AM Hermes Trismegistus via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Three days ago my dad and I received our JNJ COVID booster shots. I grew
> horribly sick from the so called ?minor? side effects. My dad faired
> better, but still felt quite sick a few hours after getting vaccinated. He
> was concerned and got tested for COVID. The tested turned up positive. I
> soon decided to get tested as well, but I turned up negative. My dad before
> this never had symptoms that warranted a test. What is the best
> interpretation of this situation?
>

### Vaccinations, including booster shots of Covid vaccines, very often
produce a minor systemic inflammatory reaction which may vary in intensity
based on various individual and hard to predict factors, so the reactions
you and your father had are both very common and not very concerning.

Regarding the positive Covid test, it may have been a false positive (there
were some batches of home antigen tests that had this problem) or, much
more likely, an asymptomatic or oligosymptomatic Covid infection that
coincided with the booster shots. Your father probably contracted the
Omicron variant sometime in the past two weeks and was still shedding the
antigen when he got the booster, the booster made him feel sick (sicker
than the actual virus), he got tested and so detected the pre-existing
infection.

The situation may be different in China, where (not high-quality knowledge,
just hearsay) some vaccines use a whole inactivated virus and may actually
cause a positive Covid test for 48 hours after vaccination. This should not
apply to your father though.

Rafal
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From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 10:15:37 2022
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 05:15:37 -0500
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
Message-ID: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>

I have been working with the law offices of Hoyt and Bryan (
https://hoytbryan.com/contact-us/) to establish a Revival Trust to aid in
my cryonic suspension and I'd like to share with you an executive summary
of the trust that I just wrote:

"I believe that the most precious essence of the good life is the
cultivation and satisfying of curiosity. I am intensely curious about the
future. Scientific progress offers us now options to extend the temporal
reach of our curiosity beyond natural limits. I intend to use
scientifically validated methods to prolong the survival of my mind and my
curiosity as long as possible. For that purpose I established a contract
with Alcor, a charitable organization, to preserve my brain in case of my
death at low temperatures, a practice known as cryonic suspension, until
technological progress allows my return to conscious experience. I am now
establishing this Revival Trust to provide financial resources to aid in
this process. Generally I intend for this Trust to steadily accrue value
through prudent, long-term investments in order to pay for whatever must be
done to increase the likelihood of my mind surviving into the far future
and what has not been provided for by other mechanisms. By way of example,
the Trust will if needed pay for: (1) Assisted suicide or legal action to
give me access to assisted suicide in case of my impending death due to
incurable disease, including dementia. (2) My upkeep while in an
incapacitated state awaiting cryonic suspension, if not otherwise provided
for. (3) Distributions required by law to beneficiaries during my time in
cryonic suspension. (4) The process of reanimation from cryonic suspension,
including reanimation by whole-brain emulation, if not provided for
otherwise. (5) My upkeep and other expenses needed to return to functioning
within the future society after reanimation. (6) Final distribution of the
accumulated Trust value to me after my return to existence as a legally
recognized person. (7) Other actions indispensable under the discretion of
the serving Trustees to assure the survival of my mind into the far
future, if not provided for otherwise. The above provisions extend also to
the situation when instead of using cryonic suspension I decide to use
other technologies to transfer my mind into the future, and such
technologies may include chemopreservation, plastination, uploading through
brain-machine interface and other potential future technologies provably
capable of recreating my mind in the future. This Trust however will not be
used for the benefit of my heirs or descendants."

This is still work in progress but we hope to be finished with it in a few
weeks. The Trust as whole is a big complicated legal document and it costs
me a pretty penny but I think it's worth it if it makes me more likely to
survive into the far future. Certainly all of you who have cryonic
suspension contracts should consider establishing such trusts as well.
Peggy Hoyt is very knowledgeable on this matter and she may be the only
lawyer in the country who has experience in this very esoteric legal
matter, so I am happy to provide her with some (unpaid, of course)
advertising.

-- 
Rafal Smigrodzki, MD-PhD
Schuyler Biotech PLLC
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From lostmyelectron at protonmail.com  Sun Feb  6 14:52:50 2022
From: lostmyelectron at protonmail.com (Gabe Waggoner)
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2022 14:52:50 +0000
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D83D5049-6D7A-469B-9F80-BC1B95B8D12C@protonmail.com>

>

> On Feb 6, 2022, at 5:15 AM, Rafal Smigrodzki via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I have been working with the law offices of Hoyt and Bryan (https://hoytbryan.com/contact-us/) to establish a Revival Trust to aid in my cryonic suspension and I'd like to share with you an executive summary of the trust that I just wrote:
>
> "I believe that the most precious essence of the good life is the cultivation and satisfying of curiosity. I am intensely curious about the future. Scientific progress offers us now options to extend the temporal reach of our curiosity beyond natural limits. I intend to use scientifically validated methods to prolong the survival of my mind and my curiosity as long as possible. For that purpose I established a contract with Alcor, a charitable organization, to preserve my brain in case of my death at low temperatures, a practice known as cryonic suspension, until technological progress allows my return to conscious experience. I am now establishing this Revival Trust to provide financial resources to aid in this process. Generally I intend for this Trust to steadily accrue value through prudent, long-term investments in order to pay for whatever must be done to increase the likelihood of my mind surviving into the far future and what has not been provided for by other mechanisms. By way of example, the Trust will if needed pay for: (1) Assisted suicide or legal action to give me access to assisted suicide in case of my impending death due to incurable disease, including dementia. (2) My upkeep while in an incapacitated state awaiting cryonic suspension, if not otherwise provided for. (3) Distributions required by law to beneficiaries during my time in cryonic suspension. (4) The process of reanimation from cryonic suspension, including reanimation by whole-brain emulation, if not provided for otherwise. (5) My upkeep and other expenses needed to return to functioning within the future society after reanimation. (6) Final distribution of the accumulated Trust value to me after my return to existence as a legally recognized person. (7) Other actions indispensable under the discretion of the serving Trustees to assure the survival of my mind into the far future, if not provided for otherwise. The above provisions extend also to the situation when instead of using cryonic suspension I decide to use other technologies to transfer my mind into the future, and such technologies may include chemopreservation, plastination, uploading through brain-machine interface and other potential future technologies provably capable of recreating my mind in the future. This Trust however will not be used for the benefit of my heirs or descendants."
>
> This is still work in progress but we hope to be finished with it in a few weeks. The Trust as whole is a big complicated legal document and it costs me a pretty penny but I think it's worth it if it makes me more likely to survive into the far future. Certainly all of you who have cryonic suspension contracts should consider establishing such trusts as well. Peggy Hoyt is very knowledgeable on this matter and she may be the only lawyer in the country who has experience in this very esoteric legal matter, so I am happy to provide her with some (unpaid, of course) advertising.
>
> --
>
> Rafal Smigrodzki, MD-PhD
> Schuyler Biotech PLLC

Hi, Rafal,

I appreciate the recommendation. As an Alcor member, I?d feel better knowing that some legal framework was in place to protect my interests.

I respectfully offer a few suggestions for clarity:

>> For that purpose I established a contract with Alcor, a charitable organization, to preserve my brain in case of my death at low temperatures, a practice known as cryonic suspension, until technological progress allows my return to conscious experience.

> I?d say ?to preserve my brain at low temperatures in case of my death.? That would avoid the misplaced modifier. As written, the sentence could be taken to mean that your brain will be preserved only if your death occurs at low temperatures. Although I concede that misunderstanding is unlikely, someone with nefarious motives could conceivably try to exploit such a grammatical loophole.

>

>> (7) Other actions indispensable under the discretion of the serving Trustees to assure the survival of my mind into the far future, if not provided for otherwise.

> This is minor, but I?d say ?ensure? rather than ?assure.? The transitive verb assure generally means to (re)assure someone about something, whereas ?ensure? means, as I believe you intend, ?to make sure that.?

>

>> The above provisions extend also to the situation when instead of using cryonic suspension I decide to use other technologies to transfer my mind into the future, and such technologies may include chemopreservation, plastination, uploading through brain-machine interface and other potential future technologies provably capable of recreating my mind in the future.

> Also minor, but I?d say ?re-creating? (with a hyphen) to avoid confusion (admittedly unlikely) with the verb meaning ?to engage in recreation.? The love?hate relationship I have with AP style has permanently burned such nuances into my brain, for better or worse.

>

That?s all I saw. In any case, I may well contact Peggy with my own needs, so great thanks again. I always enjoy your posts.

Best wishes,

Gabe

?
Gabe Waggoner, MS, ELS
Science Writer?Editor
7318 Edmonston Rd.
College Park, MD 20740-3018
www.nasw.org/users/rgwaggoner/
gwaggoner at nasw.org
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From spike at rainier66.com  Sun Feb  6 16:20:10 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 08:20:10 -0800
Subject: [ExI] can gofundme go fund themselves?
Message-ID: <006301d81b75$6a10f750$3e32e5f0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

A Trucker convoy in Canada has a Gofundme.  Suppose a trucker got into a fight with a mountie, Gofundme suspends their account, declaring them domestic terrorist organization. 

 

Once the truckers go away and the protest is over, can Gofundme keep the money?

 

spike

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From brent.allsop at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 17:49:58 2022
From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 10:49:58 -0700
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Rafal,
Thanks for sharing this!!
I plan on going further than just this, so would like to get final copies
of your stuff.  Also I want to create an Estate, that will continue to
carry out my will, after I am on ice.
I call the entity I want to create an "estate".  I describe how these will
operate in my short story fan fiction: "1229 years after Titanic
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ybLgIbOSDu9-ye1wAu9B5RnCBuSVcIihtXrhtVWZajo/edit>
".
Basically, they are AI systems, who's goal is to collect, maintain, all of
my history, and some of my assets.  Especially a description of my entire
life, all of my memories, pictures, videos, and everything.  It will
collect as much of my memorabilia and history as possible.
It may help to fund descendants education, and stuff like that I would have
done, were I not on ice...
The purpose of the AI, will be to behave as close as possible to what I
would have done, were I not on ice.  And of course, it's goal will be to
resurrect me, and restore all of my memories to me.
The assets in the AI will go to funding the computing power to host the AI.

There will be a big problem dealing with identity.  For example, if someone
creates an artificially conscious being, then names it after the
estate's owner, then claims all your assets, will that work?
Of course not.  The question then becomes, what would meet the definition
of a resurrect (recovered form your corpsicle) you?

I believe there are already companies starting to offer these kinds of AI
services, so you can get the AI started, before you die, to continue to
train it to be you, before you die.
What Martin Rothblat is doing with his lifenaut.com mind files organization
is pushing in this direction.


Brent

















On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 3:16 AM Rafal Smigrodzki via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I have been working with the law offices of Hoyt and Bryan (
> https://hoytbryan.com/contact-us/) to establish a Revival Trust to aid in
> my cryonic suspension and I'd like to share with you an executive summary
> of the trust that I just wrote:
>
> "I believe that the most precious essence of the good life is the
> cultivation and satisfying of curiosity. I am intensely curious about the
> future. Scientific progress offers us now options to extend the temporal
> reach of our curiosity beyond natural limits. I intend to use
> scientifically validated methods to prolong the survival of my mind and my
> curiosity as long as possible. For that purpose I established a contract
> with Alcor, a charitable organization, to preserve my brain in case of my
> death at low temperatures, a practice known as cryonic suspension, until
> technological progress allows my return to conscious experience. I am now
> establishing this Revival Trust to provide financial resources to aid in
> this process. Generally I intend for this Trust to steadily accrue value
> through prudent, long-term investments in order to pay for whatever must be
> done to increase the likelihood of my mind surviving into the far future
> and what has not been provided for by other mechanisms. By way of example,
> the Trust will if needed pay for: (1) Assisted suicide or legal action to
> give me access to assisted suicide in case of my impending death due to
> incurable disease, including dementia. (2) My upkeep while in an
> incapacitated state awaiting cryonic suspension, if not otherwise provided
> for. (3) Distributions required by law to beneficiaries during my time in
> cryonic suspension. (4) The process of reanimation from cryonic suspension,
> including reanimation by whole-brain emulation, if not provided for
> otherwise. (5) My upkeep and other expenses needed to return to functioning
> within the future society after reanimation. (6) Final distribution of the
> accumulated Trust value to me after my return to existence as a legally
> recognized person. (7) Other actions indispensable under the discretion of
> the serving Trustees to assure the survival of my mind into the far
> future, if not provided for otherwise. The above provisions extend also to
> the situation when instead of using cryonic suspension I decide to use
> other technologies to transfer my mind into the future, and such
> technologies may include chemopreservation, plastination, uploading through
> brain-machine interface and other potential future technologies provably
> capable of recreating my mind in the future. This Trust however will not be
> used for the benefit of my heirs or descendants."
>
> This is still work in progress but we hope to be finished with it in a few
> weeks. The Trust as whole is a big complicated legal document and it costs
> me a pretty penny but I think it's worth it if it makes me more likely to
> survive into the far future. Certainly all of you who have cryonic
> suspension contracts should consider establishing such trusts as well.
> Peggy Hoyt is very knowledgeable on this matter and she may be the only
> lawyer in the country who has experience in this very esoteric legal
> matter, so I am happy to provide her with some (unpaid, of course)
> advertising.
>
> --
> Rafal Smigrodzki, MD-PhD
> Schuyler Biotech PLLC
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From zoielsoy at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 18:18:44 2022
From: zoielsoy at gmail.com (Angel Z. Lopez)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 13:18:44 -0500
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>

you guys are missing the whole point of being alive. Your brain is a single
node part of a larger network. Once your node dies it doesn?t ever come
back..

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:51 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Hi Rafal,
> Thanks for sharing this!!
> I plan on going further than just this, so would like to get final copies
> of your stuff.  Also I want to create an Estate, that will continue to
> carry out my will, after I am on ice.
> I call the entity I want to create an "estate".  I describe how these will
> operate in my short story fan fiction: "1229 years after Titanic
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ybLgIbOSDu9-ye1wAu9B5RnCBuSVcIihtXrhtVWZajo/edit>
> ".
> Basically, they are AI systems, who's goal is to collect, maintain, all of
> my history, and some of my assets.  Especially a description of my entire
> life, all of my memories, pictures, videos, and everything.  It will
> collect as much of my memorabilia and history as possible.
> It may help to fund descendants education, and stuff like that I would
> have done, were I not on ice...
> The purpose of the AI, will be to behave as close as possible to what I
> would have done, were I not on ice.  And of course, it's goal will be to
> resurrect me, and restore all of my memories to me.
> The assets in the AI will go to funding the computing power to host the AI.
>
> There will be a big problem dealing with identity.  For example, if
> someone creates an artificially conscious being, then names it after the
> estate's owner, then claims all your assets, will that work?
> Of course not.  The question then becomes, what would meet the definition
> of a resurrect (recovered form your corpsicle) you?
>
> I believe there are already companies starting to offer these kinds of AI
> services, so you can get the AI started, before you die, to continue to
> train it to be you, before you die.
> What Martin Rothblat is doing with his lifenaut.com mind files
> organization is pushing in this direction.
>
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 3:16 AM Rafal Smigrodzki via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I have been working with the law offices of Hoyt and Bryan (
>> https://hoytbryan.com/contact-us/) to establish a Revival Trust to aid
>> in my cryonic suspension and I'd like to share with you an executive
>> summary of the trust that I just wrote:
>>
>> "I believe that the most precious essence of the good life is the
>> cultivation and satisfying of curiosity. I am intensely curious about the
>> future. Scientific progress offers us now options to extend the temporal
>> reach of our curiosity beyond natural limits. I intend to use
>> scientifically validated methods to prolong the survival of my mind and my
>> curiosity as long as possible. For that purpose I established a contract
>> with Alcor, a charitable organization, to preserve my brain in case of my
>> death at low temperatures, a practice known as cryonic suspension, until
>> technological progress allows my return to conscious experience. I am now
>> establishing this Revival Trust to provide financial resources to aid in
>> this process. Generally I intend for this Trust to steadily accrue value
>> through prudent, long-term investments in order to pay for whatever must be
>> done to increase the likelihood of my mind surviving into the far future
>> and what has not been provided for by other mechanisms. By way of example,
>> the Trust will if needed pay for: (1) Assisted suicide or legal action to
>> give me access to assisted suicide in case of my impending death due to
>> incurable disease, including dementia. (2) My upkeep while in an
>> incapacitated state awaiting cryonic suspension, if not otherwise provided
>> for. (3) Distributions required by law to beneficiaries during my time in
>> cryonic suspension. (4) The process of reanimation from cryonic suspension,
>> including reanimation by whole-brain emulation, if not provided for
>> otherwise. (5) My upkeep and other expenses needed to return to functioning
>> within the future society after reanimation. (6) Final distribution of the
>> accumulated Trust value to me after my return to existence as a legally
>> recognized person. (7) Other actions indispensable under the discretion of
>> the serving Trustees to assure the survival of my mind into the far
>> future, if not provided for otherwise. The above provisions extend also to
>> the situation when instead of using cryonic suspension I decide to use
>> other technologies to transfer my mind into the future, and such
>> technologies may include chemopreservation, plastination, uploading through
>> brain-machine interface and other potential future technologies provably
>> capable of recreating my mind in the future. This Trust however will not be
>> used for the benefit of my heirs or descendants."
>>
>> This is still work in progress but we hope to be finished with it in a
>> few weeks. The Trust as whole is a big complicated legal document and it
>> costs me a pretty penny but I think it's worth it if it makes me more
>> likely to survive into the far future. Certainly all of you who have
>> cryonic suspension contracts should consider establishing such trusts as
>> well. Peggy Hoyt is very knowledgeable on this matter and she may be the
>> only lawyer in the country who has experience in this very esoteric legal
>> matter, so I am happy to provide her with some (unpaid, of course)
>> advertising.
>>
>> --
>> Rafal Smigrodzki, MD-PhD
>> Schuyler Biotech PLLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From msd001 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 18:41:45 2022
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 13:41:45 -0500
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdbLcsRQpeD5jWBgpS+Js7uvdDZB3Ef+tTpq0Vs22a_a+5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 1:20 PM Angel Z. Lopez via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> you guys are missing the whole point of being alive. Your brain is a
> single node part of a larger network. Once your node dies it doesn?t ever
> come back..
>

I don't think anyone is disputing that alive > dead.  Using the
node/network analogy, cryopreservation posits that nodes can be temporarily
disconnected from the network (administratively downed, if you will) then
be later reconnected.

Are you your brain/hardware or the pattern/software runs on top of that
lower level abstraction?  If you are sure the two cannot be separated, then
cryopreservation is likely not in your future.

>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Sun Feb  6 19:05:40 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 11:05:40 -0800
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAOJFdbLcsRQpeD5jWBgpS+Js7uvdDZB3Ef+tTpq0Vs22a_a+5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOJFdbLcsRQpeD5jWBgpS+Js7uvdDZB3Ef+tTpq0Vs22a_a+5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01d81b8c$890e3250$9b2a96f0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] The most precious essence

 

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 1:20 PM Angel Z. Lopez via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

 

 

>>?you guys are missing the whole point of being alive. Your brain is a single node part of a larger network. Once your node dies it doesn?t ever come back.. Angel

 

>?I don't think anyone is disputing that alive > dead? Mike

 

 

 

Mike and Angel, consider those two comments and how they play together.

 

If a mind is not substrate-dependent, then a brain can theoretically be simulated based on the content of an existing mind.

 

If so, then statement number 2 above is incorrect kinda: in that case, alive isn?t greater than dead exactly.  If we want to say being simulated after cryonics = dead (in accordance with statement 1 above) and the brain is a node in a larger network, then a sim mind is way more effective at being a network node than a meat brain.  Reasoning: the I/O isn?t as severely bottlenecked as is our carbon-based brain.

 

spike

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From pharos at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 19:39:37 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 19:39:37 +0000
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <000a01d81b8c$890e3250$9b2a96f0$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOJFdbLcsRQpeD5jWBgpS+Js7uvdDZB3Ef+tTpq0Vs22a_a+5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <000a01d81b8c$890e3250$9b2a96f0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armi+ux2K32ZB0PR5usr6GucbAYp9UXFKzh95QvG19qCuUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 at 19:08, spike jones via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Mike and Angel, consider those two comments and how they play together.
>
> If a mind is not substrate-dependent, then a brain can theoretically be simulated based on the content of an existing mind.
>
> If so, then statement number 2 above is incorrect kinda: in that case, alive isn?t greater than dead exactly.  If we want to say being simulated after cryonics = dead (in accordance with statement 1 above) and the brain is a node in a larger network, then a sim mind is way more effective at being a network node than a meat brain.  Reasoning: the I/O isn?t as severely bottlenecked as is our carbon-based brain.
>
> spike
> _______________________________________________


If a mind can be run on hardware - then that changes everything!
Processing a mind a million times faster than humans is entering a new
world. They will hardly be in contact with humans at all. They will
build a new civilisation in what seems like the blink of an eye to
humans. Hopefully, they will be able to remove the faults brought over
from their previous humanity.


BillK


From spike at rainier66.com  Sun Feb  6 21:07:04 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 13:07:04 -0800
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armi+ux2K32ZB0PR5usr6GucbAYp9UXFKzh95QvG19qCuUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOJFdbLcsRQpeD5jWBgpS+Js7uvdDZB3Ef+tTpq0Vs22a_a+5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <000a01d81b8c$890e3250$9b2a96f0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armi+ux2K32ZB0PR5usr6GucbAYp9UXFKzh95QvG19qCuUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01d81b9d$7e8b3f60$7ba1be20$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat

> _______________________________________________


>...If a mind can be run on hardware - then that changes everything!
Processing a mind a million times faster than humans is entering a new world. They will hardly be in contact with humans at all. They will build a new civilisation in what seems like the blink of an eye to humans. Hopefully, they will be able to remove the faults brought over from their previous humanity...BillK

_______________________________________________





Never mind a million times faster BillK.  If the mind or the most precious essence of the mind is substrate independent, and we are smart enough to simulate it, then the million times faster business doesn't matter really.  We could (with enough patience) run ourselves on a good old i486.  Then we don't cost much.

But if we are substrate independent, then...

>...They will hardly be in contact with humans at all...

Then what's the big hurry?  We (they) have all the time in the universe.

spike



From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com  Mon Feb  7 02:51:53 2022
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 21:51:53 -0500
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <000a01d81b8c$890e3250$9b2a96f0$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAAc1gFh=-1P9LZ-0ri7ENx+qxXEpVHHbfaF0znJO-bj7juRbqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK7-onvpqTroL82E3KQWOM1rinRmWV7UB-Zv3itw1OecsHhSNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALHxhTRoFRUXd9p+P6POdYCUP3tm2abUK2Dk14CBn1-iZimL9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOJFdbLcsRQpeD5jWBgpS+Js7uvdDZB3Ef+tTpq0Vs22a_a+5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <000a01d81b8c$890e3250$9b2a96f0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAAc1gFhBBhKKX3ynnwCTQVAs_VVvtYO=0Q2xChogEt_Ma7yM9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 2:07 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:


>  alive isn?t greater than dead exactly.
>

### Aside from the discussion engendered by my post, let me offer
background information on why having a Revival Trust is important for a
cryonicist.

Having money is good, in part because you can use it to protect yourself
from various dangers and attacks. Unfortunately, your options for using
this golden shield after your death are limited. Simply leaving some money
to your descendants or a company is weak sauce since there isn't much you
can do to stop them from just pocketing the cash and forgetting about your
frozen corpsicle. Alcor does have a Patient Care Trust which provides
resources for suspension and possibly eventually for reanimation but it
does not cover all of your potential needs. However, by establishing
certain types of trust, you can create a legal instrument that might
survive for hundreds of years (360 years, potentially longer) and you can
specify the conditions under which your money can be used to protect you
against trouble for a long time. In addition, by the power of compound
interest, a modest 1 million dollar investment (e.g. through a life
insurance policy) after only 100 years at 8% growth rate could give
you 2,199,761,256.34 dollars to play with after reanimation.

That's 2 trillion reasons to think about a Revival Trust.

Plus, there is also the issue of dying safely. This may sound like an
oxymoron, since dying is widely considered to be the most unsafe thing that
could happen to a human, however, for a cryonicist the situation is
different: You want to die while your brain is still in excellent condition
and you want to die where immediate cryonic care is available to make sure
it stays in that condition. This means you might need to use assisted
suicide and other unusual approaches to avoid damage from dementia,
prolonged and futile resuscitation and other medical dangers. Between the
special provisions in my living will and the revival trust I am increasing
my chances of avoiding these dangers, at a still relatively low cost.

Rafal
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From natasha at natashavita-more.com  Tue Feb  8 01:03:07 2022
From: natasha at natashavita-more.com (Natasha natashavita-more.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 01:03:07 +0000
Subject: [ExI] Transhumanist Studies Group - TOPIC - Friday 2/11/22 @ 10AM
 US PST
Message-ID: <SJ0PR22MB29593242914B2C10352763B4872D9@SJ0PR22MB2959.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

?Hello Everyone!

This coming Friday, Feb 4th, we will be discussing Artificial General Intelligence (AGI)  ??and the work of Ben Goertzel and Peter Voss, two of the computer scientists who developed the term and its usage. Let's first learn more about these two people (that is, if you don't already know them!).

Ben Goertzel. He leads the SingularityNET Foundation, the OpenCog Foundation, and the AGI Society which runs the annual Artificial General Intelligence conference. Ben also chairs the futurist nonprofit Humanity+, and serves as Chief Scientist of AI firms Singularity Studio, Rejuve, SingularityDAO and Xccelerando Media, all parts of the SingularityNET ecosystem. As Chief Scientist of robotics firm Hanson Robotics, he led the software team behind the Sophia robot; as Chief AI Scientist of Awakening Health he leads the team crafting the mind behind Sophia?s little sister Grace. Learn more at his website<https://goertzel.org/about/>.

Peter Voss. His careers include being an entrepreneur, engineer and scientist. His experience includes growing a computer solutions company from zero to a 400-person IPO. For the past 20+ years his main focus has been on developing AGI (artificial general intelligence). In 2009 Peter founded Smart Action Company, which offers the only call automation solution powered by an AGI engine. He now heads up Aigo.ai Inc., which is developing and selling increasingly advanced AGI systems. Peter also has a keen interest in the inter-relationship between philosophy, psychology, ethics, futurism, and computer science. Learn more at his company website aigo.ai<https://aigo.ai/>.

For our Transhumanist Studies Group meeting on Friday, please bring with you:

  *   One or more articles on AGI that you read or video that you watched the provided a newsworthy item that you can share with the group.
  *   One or more concerns you have, or you read about that might challenge the benefits of AGI
  *   How might AGI help the goals of transhumanism?

On Sunday, February 13 I am hosting the H+ Academy Roundtable on AGI. "How it Started. Key Challenges Ahead". Please register here if you would like to attend!  Eventbrite.?

Email me if you have any questions.

Onward!

Natasha

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From natasha at natashavita-more.com  Tue Feb  8 01:46:24 2022
From: natasha at natashavita-more.com (Natasha natashavita-more.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 01:46:24 +0000
Subject: [ExI] Transhumanist Studies Group - TOPIC - Friday 2/11/22 @
 10AM US PST
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR22MB29593242914B2C10352763B4872D9@SJ0PR22MB2959.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR22MB29593242914B2C10352763B4872D9@SJ0PR22MB2959.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR22MB2959C0D80D5AAF44E5B40DCF872D9@SJ0PR22MB2959.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Correction: Friday the 11th of this month!


Dr. Natasha Vita-More, PhD<https://www.natashavita-more.com/>
Executive Director, Humanity+, Inc.<https://www.humanityplus.org/>
Founder & Professor, Transhumanist Studies<https://transhumanist-studies.teachable.com/>
Lead Scientific Researcher, Neuron Preservation<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620520/>
Senior Fellow, Center for Future Mind<https://www.fau.edu/research-admin/future-mind/>

[cid:1ee01070-4270-4bf5-ab33-8b3e05d72e64]
________________________________
From: hplusmembers at googlegroups.com <hplusmembers at googlegroups.com> on behalf of Natasha natashavita-more.com <natasha at natashavita-more.com>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 6:03 PM
To: hplusmembers at googlegroups.com <hplusmembers at googlegroups.com>
Cc: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>; Dinorah Delfin <dinorah at theimmortalistsclub.com>
Subject: [H+M] Transhumanist Studies Group - TOPIC - Friday 2/11/22 @ 10AM US PST


?Hello Everyone!

This coming Friday, Feb 4th, we will be discussing Artificial General Intelligence (AGI)  ??and the work of Ben Goertzel and Peter Voss, two of the computer scientists who developed the term and its usage. Let's first learn more about these two people (that is, if you don't already know them!).

Ben Goertzel. He leads the SingularityNET Foundation, the OpenCog Foundation, and the AGI Society which runs the annual Artificial General Intelligence conference. Ben also chairs the futurist nonprofit Humanity+, and serves as Chief Scientist of AI firms Singularity Studio, Rejuve, SingularityDAO and Xccelerando Media, all parts of the SingularityNET ecosystem. As Chief Scientist of robotics firm Hanson Robotics, he led the software team behind the Sophia robot; as Chief AI Scientist of Awakening Health he leads the team crafting the mind behind Sophia?s little sister Grace. Learn more at his website<https://goertzel.org/about/>.

Peter Voss. His careers include being an entrepreneur, engineer and scientist. His experience includes growing a computer solutions company from zero to a 400-person IPO. For the past 20+ years his main focus has been on developing AGI (artificial general intelligence). In 2009 Peter founded Smart Action Company, which offers the only call automation solution powered by an AGI engine. He now heads up Aigo.ai Inc., which is developing and selling increasingly advanced AGI systems. Peter also has a keen interest in the inter-relationship between philosophy, psychology, ethics, futurism, and computer science. Learn more at his company website aigo.ai<https://aigo.ai/>.

For our Transhumanist Studies Group meeting on Friday, please bring with you:

  *   One or more articles on AGI that you read or video that you watched the provided a newsworthy item that you can share with the group.
  *   One or more concerns you have, or you read about that might challenge the benefits of AGI
  *   How might AGI help the goals of transhumanism?

On Sunday, February 13 I am hosting the H+ Academy Roundtable on AGI. "How it Started. Key Challenges Ahead". Please register here if you would like to attend!  Eventbrite.?

Email me if you have any questions.

Onward!

Natasha


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Humanity+ Members" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hplusmembers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:hplusmembers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
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From spike at rainier66.com  Tue Feb  8 05:45:00 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 21:45:00 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
Message-ID: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>

 

 

In light of recent news, I have been wondering something about Gofundme: if
the organization has the theoretical legal ability to not pay the
organization for which it is collecting money, then any funds one donates to
a cause thru Gofundme actually belongs to Gofundme.  As far as I can tell,
that organization owns the money and has the option to give it to whatever
the funds were collected for, or to keep it.

 

Do I understand it correctly?

 

spike

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From ben at zaiboc.net  Tue Feb  8 22:13:30 2022
From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 22:13:30 +0000
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1644284802.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
References: <mailman.18.1644284802.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
Message-ID: <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>

On 08/02/2022 01:46, BillK wrote:
> If a mind can be run on hardware -

Well, it's the hardware we have now that has made minds possible. What 
is the brain, if not hardware? Ok, it's squishy, but that's not what we 
mean when we distinguish between hardware and software. You could say 
"non-organic hardware", but who's to say that we have to use non-organic 
hardware to construct future mind substrates? Polymer brains might well 
be possible. It could be that going down a silicon and electrons route 
wouldn't be such a good idea, given how vulnerable that would be to 
cosmic rays and such.

The existence of our current brains and minds is all the proof needed 
that uploading is at least theoretically possible. Just as biology is 
proof that nanotechnology is possible.

Ben

From foozler83 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 02:59:19 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 20:59:19 -0600
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>
References: <mailman.18.1644284802.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
 <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEYHT5SrJa9FiJb4Ft0qpwmXWuUGGgUpRZdZue00r78Gyg@mail.gmail.com>

Just as biology is
proof that nanotechnology is possible.   ben

Would you elaborate on that just a tiny bit for me?  What is it about
biology?  We are assuming the analogy is correct.  bill w

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 8:30 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 08/02/2022 01:46, BillK wrote:
> > If a mind can be run on hardware -
>
> Well, it's the hardware we have now that has made minds possible. What
> is the brain, if not hardware? Ok, it's squishy, but that's not what we
> mean when we distinguish between hardware and software. You could say
> "non-organic hardware", but who's to say that we have to use non-organic
> hardware to construct future mind substrates? Polymer brains might well
> be possible. It could be that going down a silicon and electrons route
> wouldn't be such a good idea, given how vulnerable that would be to
> cosmic rays and such.
>
> The existence of our current brains and minds is all the proof needed
> that uploading is at least theoretically possible. Just as biology is
> proof that nanotechnology is possible.
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From sparge at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 13:19:33 2022
From: sparge at gmail.com (Dave S)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 08:19:33 -0500
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 12:47 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> In light of recent news, I have been wondering something about Gofundme:
> if the organization has the theoretical legal ability to not pay the
> organization for which it is collecting money, then any funds one donates
> to a cause thru Gofundme actually belongs to Gofundme.  As far as I can
> tell, that organization owns the money and has the option to give it to
> whatever the funds were collected for, or to keep it.
>
>
>
> Do I understand it correctly?
>

I don't think so. From their FAQ <https://www.gofundme.com/c/questions>:

*    What if I don't reach my goal?*

*    No problem. Reaching your goal is not required. With GoFundMe, you
keep each and every donation you receive. Your fundraiser will be able to
accept donations even after your goal is reached. Once the goal is reached,
the progress meter on your fundraiser will show that you have received more
than your goal amount. If you?d like to continue raising money, you can
keep your fundraiser running for as long as you?d like.*

*    What is the GoFundMe Guarantee?*

*    We are proud to offer the first and only donor protection guarantee in
the industry: the GoFundMe Guarantee. Every day, thousands of people get
the help they need from generous donors. Our team of Trust & Safety
specialists work night and day to make sure that funds get to the intended
recipient, every time. In the rare case that something isn?t right, we will
refund your donation. If funds aren?t delivered to the right person, we
will donate the missing amount.*

*    How is my donation protected?*

*    The GoFundMe Guarantee protects your donation. It takes a leap of
faith to help someone else. That?s why we make sure to honor your
generosity by backing it up with the first and only guarantee for online
fundraising. In the rare case that something isn?t right, we will refund
your donation.*

----

IANAL, but I don't see that GoFundMe has a right to keep anything except
their fees. Donations go to the recipient or are refunded.

-Dave
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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 13:43:49 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 13:43:49 +0000
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armiJh90iBcUG4v_KLFrLLpyo-xi-k-YHdgUbPpQmzJsigA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 13:22, Dave S via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> IANAL, but I don't see that GoFundMe has a right to keep anything except their fees. Donations go to the recipient or are refunded.
>
> -Dave
> _______________________________________________


Spike was probably worried about donations to the Freedom Truckers in
Canada. GoFundMe closed their donations page after law enforcement
said they were behaving illegally.
GoFundMe has now stated that all donations will be refunded.
<https://medium.com/gofundme-stories/update-gofundme-statement-on-the-freedom-convoy-2022-fundraiser-4ca7e9714e82>


BillK

From spike at rainier66.com  Wed Feb  9 15:47:48 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 07:47:48 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Dave S via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] gofundme question

 

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 12:47 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

 

>>?In light of recent news, I have been wondering something about Gofundme: if the organization has the theoretical legal ability to not pay the organization for which it is collecting money, then any funds one donates to a cause thru Gofundme actually belongs to Gofundme.  As far as I can tell, that organization owns the money and has the option to give it to whatever the funds were collected for, or to keep it.

 

Do I understand it correctly?

 

>?I don't think so. From their FAQ <https://www.gofundme.com/c/questions>:

 

?

 

----

 

>?IANAL, but I don't see that GoFundMe has a right to keep anything except their fees. Donations go to the recipient or are refunded.

 

-Dave

 

 

OK thanks Dave.  That FAQ raises a bunch of new questions.  For instance? in a current trucker?s strike in Canada, Gofundme decided to not give out the money they received.  So the cause for which the money was collected is out of luck.  Gofundme chose to refund the money to the donors.  However? being a political cause for which many Canadians could reasonably fear their employer could retaliate or their own government could prosecute for donating, may have chosen to donate anonymously or under an assumed identity.  Any attempt to collect refunded money could result in the risk that Gofundme would reveal who donated to the truckers.  Canada apparently can prosecute its citizens for arbitrary reasons, such as bringing fuel to the striking truckers. Donating funds could also be made illegal or certainly unadvisable after the fact.  So? the donors could have made it impossible to refund their donations.  Result: Gofundme gets to keep the money.

 

We can expand the focus beyond this particular situation: anyone can start a Gofundme for any cause, raise a bunch of money, then spend it any way that person pleases.  There is no control at all that I can see.  This could spawn an entire industry, where people start Gofundmes and use the proceeds to fund themselves, or more likely: they would half-heartedly support the cause that raised the cash.

 

spike

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From brent.allsop at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 16:16:07 2022
From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 09:16:07 -0700
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>
References: <mailman.18.1644284802.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
 <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>
Message-ID: <CAK7-onvky=-CXSziSR2gAMz3U8mW2i6YHYT1Vb-wrqt=7mDG4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 7:28 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 08/02/2022 01:46, BillK wrote:
> > If a mind can be run on hardware -
>
> Well, it's the hardware we have now that has made minds possible. What
> is the brain, if not hardware? Ok, it's squishy, but that's not what we
> mean when we distinguish between hardware and software. You could say
> "non-organic hardware", but who's to say that we have to use non-organic
> hardware to construct future mind substrates? Polymer brains might well
> be possible. It could be that going down a silicon and electrons route
> wouldn't be such a good idea, given how vulnerable that would be to
> cosmic rays and such.
>

It is a fact of the matter that all information in our current
"non-organic" systems is abstract, like the word "red", composed of strings
of ones and zeros.  These are purposely abstracted away from any physical
properties (i.e. wavelengths of light or the verry different colorness
qualities like redness) representing them.  You can't know what any of
those abstract words like red represent without a dictionary.  We on the
other hand, representing information, like knowledge of red things,
directly on phenomenal qualities of "squishy" stuff like redness and
greenness.  The redness quality your squishy stuff uses to represent red
knowledge with is your definition of red.  It is a fact that my brain could
be engineered such that my redness would be like your greenness, both of
which we call red, as illustrated here:

[image: 3_robots_tiny.png]

The only difference in the first two is a red green signal inverter in the
optic nerve, and a redness/greenness inverted dictionary.

My question is, do you currently disagree with any of these demonstrably
true facts?  And if not why do you continue to completely ignore facts like
this, when you talk about "squishy stuff"?



>
> The existence of our current brains and minds is all the proof needed
> that uploading is at least theoretically possible. Just as biology is
> proof that nanotechnology is possible.
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From stathisp at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 16:37:55 2022
From: stathisp at gmail.com (Stathis Papaioannou)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:37:55 +1100
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAK7-onvky=-CXSziSR2gAMz3U8mW2i6YHYT1Vb-wrqt=7mDG4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.18.1644284802.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
 <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>
 <CAK7-onvky=-CXSziSR2gAMz3U8mW2i6YHYT1Vb-wrqt=7mDG4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH=2ypXJbAmwf2Nn2oPkPf8To6VA+C6=7muvgLnt4p9rzs3odA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 03:17, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 7:28 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On 08/02/2022 01:46, BillK wrote:
>> > If a mind can be run on hardware -
>>
>> Well, it's the hardware we have now that has made minds possible. What
>> is the brain, if not hardware? Ok, it's squishy, but that's not what we
>> mean when we distinguish between hardware and software. You could say
>> "non-organic hardware", but who's to say that we have to use non-organic
>> hardware to construct future mind substrates? Polymer brains might well
>> be possible. It could be that going down a silicon and electrons route
>> wouldn't be such a good idea, given how vulnerable that would be to
>> cosmic rays and such.
>>
>
> It is a fact of the matter that all information in our current
> "non-organic" systems is abstract, like the word "red", composed of strings
> of ones and zeros.  These are purposely abstracted away from any physical
> properties (i.e. wavelengths of light or the verry different colorness
> qualities like redness) representing them.  You can't know what any of
> those abstract words like red represent without a dictionary.  We on the
> other hand, representing information, like knowledge of red things,
> directly on phenomenal qualities of "squishy" stuff like redness and
> greenness.  The redness quality your squishy stuff uses to represent red
> knowledge with is your definition of red.  It is a fact that my brain could
> be engineered such that my redness would be like your greenness, both of
> which we call red, as illustrated here:
>
> [image: 3_robots_tiny.png]
>
> The only difference in the first two is a red green signal inverter in the
> optic nerve, and a redness/greenness inverted dictionary.
>
> My question is, do you currently disagree with any of these demonstrably
> true facts?  And if not why do you continue to completely ignore facts like
> this, when you talk about "squishy stuff"?
>

You don?t know that what you call abstract qualities and physical qualities
do not both give phenomenal consciousness.

> --
Stathis Papaioannou
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From atymes at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 18:22:48 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 10:22:48 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 7:49 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Any attempt to collect refunded money could result in the risk that
> Gofundme would reveal who donated to the truckers.
>

This is the break in your chain of logic.  The donors would collect refunds
from Gofundme, true, but there is insufficient evidence that these
donations were linked to the truckers.  As I understand it, there's nothing
on any bank documents to indicate this: the banks only know that this is a
transfer from Gofundme to the person, not why.  The timing is insufficient
on its own: Gofundme refunds money all the time, so this could have been
from any of a number of campaigns.  And that's all the police would have to
go on.

No evidence, no bust.  If the police tried to arrest based on only that,
they would catch a number of legitimately innocent folk in their dragnet,
enough that they would probably have to let everyone go - with reduced
chances of using this as supporting evidence in a future case where they
have more to go on - and they know this.
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From brent.allsop at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 18:41:11 2022
From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:41:11 -0700
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <CAH=2ypXJbAmwf2Nn2oPkPf8To6VA+C6=7muvgLnt4p9rzs3odA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.18.1644284802.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
 <94155788-b174-4ec2-6b1d-ae84fe63d9d3@zaiboc.net>
 <CAK7-onvky=-CXSziSR2gAMz3U8mW2i6YHYT1Vb-wrqt=7mDG4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH=2ypXJbAmwf2Nn2oPkPf8To6VA+C6=7muvgLnt4p9rzs3odA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK7-onubSVW+7DHUNCi=+ADGYdGuX-mz448z8mz5UbO4Y1YSew@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stathis,


Yes, that is true, but what does that have to do with the facts I?m
referring to?  Surely you are not arguing that the current abstract
systems, like a tesla automobile, which, if it does know its own color, is
representing that knowledge of its own color with a world like ?red?
(doesn?t matter what is representing those ones and zeros, anywhere in the
set of tesla parts, but you must have a different transducing dictionary
for each different part that is representing it), and that there is no
redness or greenness qualities anywhere in any such current abstract system?




On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 9:39 AM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 03:17, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 7:28 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/02/2022 01:46, BillK wrote:
>>> > If a mind can be run on hardware -
>>>
>>> Well, it's the hardware we have now that has made minds possible. What
>>> is the brain, if not hardware? Ok, it's squishy, but that's not what we
>>> mean when we distinguish between hardware and software. You could say
>>> "non-organic hardware", but who's to say that we have to use non-organic
>>> hardware to construct future mind substrates? Polymer brains might well
>>> be possible. It could be that going down a silicon and electrons route
>>> wouldn't be such a good idea, given how vulnerable that would be to
>>> cosmic rays and such.
>>>
>>
>> It is a fact of the matter that all information in our current
>> "non-organic" systems is abstract, like the word "red", composed of strings
>> of ones and zeros.  These are purposely abstracted away from any physical
>> properties (i.e. wavelengths of light or the verry different colorness
>> qualities like redness) representing them.  You can't know what any of
>> those abstract words like red represent without a dictionary.  We on the
>> other hand, representing information, like knowledge of red things,
>> directly on phenomenal qualities of "squishy" stuff like redness and
>> greenness.  The redness quality your squishy stuff uses to represent red
>> knowledge with is your definition of red.  It is a fact that my brain could
>> be engineered such that my redness would be like your greenness, both of
>> which we call red, as illustrated here:
>>
>> [image: 3_robots_tiny.png]
>>
>> The only difference in the first two is a red green signal inverter in
>> the optic nerve, and a redness/greenness inverted dictionary.
>>
>> My question is, do you currently disagree with any of these demonstrably
>> true facts?  And if not why do you continue to completely ignore facts like
>> this, when you talk about "squishy stuff"?
>>
>
> You don?t know that what you call abstract qualities and physical
> qualities do not both give phenomenal consciousness.
>
>> --
> Stathis Papaioannou
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Wed Feb  9 20:23:09 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 12:23:09 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002701d81df2$daf39fc0$90dadf40$@rainier66.com>

 

 

From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2022 10:23
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ExI] gofundme question

 

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 7:49 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

Any attempt to collect refunded money could result in the risk that Gofundme would reveal who donated to the truckers.

 

>?This is the break in your chain of logic.  The donors would collect refunds from Gofundme, true, but there is insufficient evidence that these donations were linked to the truckers.  As I understand it, there's nothing on any bank documents to indicate this: the banks only know that this is a transfer from Gofundme to the person, not why.  The timing is insufficient on its own: Gofundme refunds money all the time, so this could have been from any of a number of campaigns.  And that's all the police would have to go on?

 

Ja.

 

My notion is that somebody started a Gofundme for Canadian truckers.  Gofundme decided it would not distribute funds to the truckers.  Canada decided it had the authority to make it illegal to even give fuel and food to the striking truckers.  In the USA, the federal government doesn?t have the authority to issue such an edict, but apparently the Canadian government thinks it does.

 

In any case? Gofundme made the decision to not disburse the collected funds.  So? that indicates they think they own the money, even while offering to return the money to donors, many of which may never show up.  Excellent business model I would say.

 

Then it occurred to me?

 

? that the option to keep the money would apply to ANY organization collecting money for ANY cause: there is no legally-enforceable requirement that the person or company collecting the funds to give it to anyone.  They could keep the money, or give it to their favorite charity, or keep the money, or offer to return it or keep the money, and if given those choices, I suspect they would choose to keep the money.  This would apply to any political party, any political cause, any charity, any religion, any anything people might donate to: they could choose to keep the money.

 

>?No evidence, no bust? and they know this.  Adrian

 

That part I understand, and you are right on: anyone in the donation collection industry has little risk and much to gain.

 

spike

 

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From atymes at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 21:24:47 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 13:24:47 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <002701d81df2$daf39fc0$90dadf40$@rainier66.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CALAdGNSAOegDK2W1aN7ZU1N6v_0yXFV3BDr4um2a3Z1z6OfKsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 12:25 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Then it occurred to me?
>
>
>
> ? that the option to keep the money would apply to ANY organization
> collecting money for ANY cause: there is no legally-enforceable requirement
> that the person or company collecting the funds to give it to anyone.
>

Sure there is.  They said they would do it.  To take the money and then not
do what they said they would is fraud, which is illegal.  This has been
well-litigated with fake charities.
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From stathisp at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 21:59:57 2022
From: stathisp at gmail.com (Stathis Papaioannou)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 08:59:57 +1100
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNSAOegDK2W1aN7ZU1N6v_0yXFV3BDr4um2a3Z1z6OfKsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d81df2$daf39fc0$90dadf40$@rainier66.com>
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Message-ID: <CAH=2ypVzBNcbWHA=wAqcj95ugpxxmL5DQPzUx4-d3PicbUO9Xg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 08:26, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 12:25 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Then it occurred to me?
>>
>>
>>
>> ? that the option to keep the money would apply to ANY organization
>> collecting money for ANY cause: there is no legally-enforceable requirement
>> that the person or company collecting the funds to give it to anyone.
>>
>
> Sure there is.  They said they would do it.  To take the money and then
> not do what they said they would is fraud, which is illegal.  This has been
> well-litigated with fake charities.
>

Also, they would lose all their business if it became clear that they could
just take the money. This is the market fallback if laws and regulation
don?t work.

> --
Stathis Papaioannou
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From spike at rainier66.com  Wed Feb  9 22:02:19 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 14:02:19 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNSAOegDK2W1aN7ZU1N6v_0yXFV3BDr4um2a3Z1z6OfKsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d81df2$daf39fc0$90dadf40$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNSAOegDK2W1aN7ZU1N6v_0yXFV3BDr4um2a3Z1z6OfKsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01d81e00$b57078f0$20516ad0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] gofundme question

 

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 12:25 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

Then it occurred to me?

? that the option to keep the money would apply to ANY organization collecting money for ANY cause: there is no legally-enforceable requirement that the person or company collecting the funds to give it to anyone.

 

>?Sure there is.  They said they would do it.  To take the money and then not do what they said they would is fraud, which is illegal.  This has been well-litigated with fake charities?

 

 

 

OK but what if? what they said they would do is kinda nebulous?  If they write their mission statement carefully, they become a target made of cotton candy.

 

Let?s take the Canadian trucker example (a good one for many reasons.)  If Gofundme had just distributed a few brown bag lunches and a few cans of Diesel fuel, the strike is over in a few days, the truckers will probably win that one, they deliver their loads and go on their truckery way.  Now there is no one left to receive the donated food and fuel.  I don?t see that Gofundme is legally required to give back the left over funds, which is likely most of it. 

 

spike

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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:32:16 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 22:32:16 +0000
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <000e01d81e00$b57078f0$20516ad0$@rainier66.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAL_armgUj2weJr8YAFFC=znkcLbO_SDj8DFTt_4f4zO4RJv14A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 22:08, spike jones via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> OK but what if? what they said they would do is kinda nebulous?  If they write their mission statement carefully, they become a target made of cotton candy.
>
> Let?s take the Canadian trucker example (a good one for many reasons.)  If Gofundme had just distributed a few brown bag lunches and a few cans of Diesel fuel, the strike is over in a few days, the truckers will probably win that one, they deliver their loads and go on their truckery way.  Now there is no one left to receive the donated food and fuel.  I don?t see that Gofundme is legally required to give back the left over funds, which is likely most of it.
>
> spike
> _______________________________________________


You need to read their Terms of Service.
<https://www.gofundme.com/c/terms>
They have tried to cover every possibility.
Quote: GoFundMe is not a payment processor and does not hold any funds.
The Services are administrative platforms only. etc. etc.

BillK


From atymes at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 23:40:02 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 15:40:02 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <000e01d81e00$b57078f0$20516ad0$@rainier66.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
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Message-ID: <CALAdGNR2wg5_9K1m5fa5gYOpFZtM52DBt4DOeuFpuE5YRB2i8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 2:07 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> OK but what if? what they said they would do is kinda nebulous?  If they
> write their mission statement carefully, they become a target made of
> cotton candy.
>

Already litigated, and not the example under discussion here.  An
excessively nebulous donation pledge can be seen as bait-and-switch (the
donor thought they were donating for one thing but in fact the intent was
different), which is also illegal.  (Contracts - including pledges of what
donations are to be used for - must be clearly understood, and identically
understood, by both sides or they may be judged void, to the detriment of
whichever side took money or material goods from the other if nothing has
been provided in return, which is what you are proposing.)

Let?s take the Canadian trucker example (a good one for many reasons.)  If
> Gofundme had just distributed a few brown bag lunches and a few cans of
> Diesel fuel, the strike is over in a few days, the truckers will probably
> win that one, they deliver their loads and go on their truckery way.  Now
> there is no one left to receive the donated food and fuel.
>

The truckers who were striking, even if they are no longer striking, would
be the designated recipients and Gofundme would still be required to
deliver to them.
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From spike at rainier66.com  Wed Feb  9 23:46:11 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 15:46:11 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgUj2weJr8YAFFC=znkcLbO_SDj8DFTt_4f4zO4RJv14A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d81df2$daf39fc0$90dadf40$@rainier66.com>
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Message-ID: <001701d81e0f$37f5d4b0$a7e17e10$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat

_______________________________________________


You need to read their Terms of Service.
<https://www.gofundme.com/c/terms>
They have tried to cover every possibility.
Quote: GoFundMe is not a payment processor and does not hold any funds.
The Services are administrative platforms only. etc. etc.

BillK

_______________________________________________




BillK, if they can freeze funds to the intended recipient, and instead donate it to a charity of their choice, that is exactly equivalent to keeping the money.  Looks to me that is what they did.

spike




From pharos at gmail.com  Thu Feb 10 00:49:01 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 00:49:01 +0000
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <001701d81e0f$37f5d4b0$a7e17e10$@rainier66.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
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Message-ID: <CAL_armibNqHs4zi=XShrZCoVk9z0zG7EH=zb+zpUtK5sMg20zw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 23:49, spike jones via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> BillK, if they can freeze funds to the intended recipient, and instead donate it to a charity of their choice, that is exactly equivalent to keeping the money.  Looks to me that is what they did.
>
> spike
> _______________________________________________


I don't think your interpretation is quite correct.
I think normally donations are held by a payments processor company
while GoFundMe checks that the intended recipient is genuine, legal
and correct. If it all checks out, the recipient can receive the
donation. In the case of the Truckers, after law enforcement said that
donations to the Truckers would be against GoFundMe terms of service,
GoFundMe stopped the process.  Initially GoFundMe asked the Truckers
to select alternative charities for the funds to go to, but then
changed their mind and decided that refunding the donations would be
easier.
I don't see any problem with that option. Whether law enforcement
should have stopped the donations process is a different discussion.

BillK

The exact GoFundMe statement is --
The update we issued earlier (below) enabled all donors to get a
refund and outlined a plan to distribute remaining funds to verified
charities selected by the Freedom Convoy organizers. However, due to
donor feedback, we are simplifying the process. We will automatically
refund all contributions directly ? donors do not need to submit a
request. You can expect to see your refund within 7?10 business days.
---------


From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb 10 01:57:29 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 17:57:29 -0800
Subject: [ExI] gofundme question
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armibNqHs4zi=XShrZCoVk9z0zG7EH=zb+zpUtK5sMg20zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f01d81caf$03c200d0$0b460270$@rainier66.com>
 <CAM5aL2c6no=LLXG7-dR9fO86TWasfP47k0X_qDdJH2N-Y8zq=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005501d81dcc$63f53da0$2bdfb8e0$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNRzUEPSZbyasRhmqcn9f+pu43P8ak4cxOBM7dRBCwpA1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <002701d81df2$daf39fc0$90dadf40$@rainier66.com>
 <CALAdGNSAOegDK2W1aN7ZU1N6v_0yXFV3BDr4um2a3Z1z6OfKsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000e01d81e00$b57078f0$20516ad0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armgUj2weJr8YAFFC=znkcLbO_SDj8DFTt_4f4zO4RJv14A@mail.gmail.com>
 <001701d81e0f$37f5d4b0$a7e17e10$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armibNqHs4zi=XShrZCoVk9z0zG7EH=zb+zpUtK5sMg20zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301d81e21$8fbe5840$af3b08c0$@rainier66.com>


...> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] gofundme question

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 23:49, spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> BillK, if they can freeze funds to the intended recipient, and instead donate it to a charity of their choice, that is exactly equivalent to keeping the money.  Looks to me that is what they did.
>
> spike
> _______________________________________________


I don't think your interpretation is quite correct....

BillK

The exact GoFundMe statement is --
The update we issued earlier (below) enabled all donors to get a refund and outlined a plan to distribute remaining funds to verified charities selected by the Freedom Convoy organizers. However, due to donor feedback, we are simplifying the process. We will automatically refund all contributions directly ? donors do not need to submit a request. You can expect to see your refund within 7?10 business days.
---------

_______________________________________________



Thanks BillK.

This entire episode did enormous damage to Gofundme, even if they acted according to their own mission statement.  The Canadian government took an even bigger hit.  It certainly raised awareness in my eyes: if the government pisses off truckers, there is big trouble to be had.  All they need to do is stock up on supplies, fill those fuel tanks, go get in the way somewhere.  Those trucks can idle for two weeks day and night on a full tank of fuel.  Cities cannot go two weeks without supplies.

Lesson learned: don't piss off truckers.  If they say they don't want or need vaccinations, listen to their reasoning, which is perfectly sound: for their lifestyle, it is higher risk than payoff.  They don't want to risk feeling lousy for a day or two (as plenty of us did or know someone who did after taking that vaccine) they sit alone all day in their cabs, they live in the trucks when they are on the road, they don't want to interact much with people which is part of why they chose that lifestyle to start with.

spike



From ben at zaiboc.net  Thu Feb 10 14:01:37 2022
From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:01:37 +0000
Subject: [ExI] The most precious essence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.26.1644424701.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
References: <mailman.26.1644424701.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
Message-ID: <3fcaefb9-5996-e0f8-336c-2436f6fccf89@zaiboc.net>

On 09/02/2022 16:38, bill w asked:
> Just as biology is
> proof that nanotechnology is possible.? ?ben
>
> Would you elaborate on that just a tiny bit for me?? What is it about 
> biology? We are assuming the analogy is correct.? bill w

What I mean is that biology /is/ nano-scale mechanisms. It's a 
demonstration that molecular machines can exist and do useful things. 
Granted, the type of nanotechnology that is commonly talked about is not 
wet, protein-based nanotech, but we have a proof that at least wet, 
protein-based nanotech is possible. We call it 'Life'. Maybe we're just 
barking up the wrong (or at least more difficult) tree by focusing on 
'dry' nanotech. In fact, some nanotech research does focus on DNA in 
solution, but maybe we could take it further, and really use biology as 
a starting point for developing nanotechnology. We know that non-natural 
amino acids are possible, we can create some amazing materials using 
block co-polymers, organic chemistry can produce a huge array of 
structures that don't occur in nature. If we can stitch these things 
together, maybe we can derive a type of non-drexlerian nanotech that 
sidesteps the problems of diamondoid synthesis.

Ben
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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb 10 14:59:39 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 06:59:39 -0800
Subject: [ExI] over a year
Message-ID: <005c01d81e8e$d448a6b0$7cd9f410$@rainier66.com>

 

Something I have wondered for over a year now since covid vaccines came
along: what happens if someone takes several of them?

 

Bloomberg published a study from the European Medicines Agency which
suggests it could weaken the immune system:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk
-overloading-immune-system-ema-says

 

That same article mentioned something that would have caused it to be
censored until recently: paxlovid and remdesivir are effective antivirals
against covid.

 

spike

 

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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 10 15:08:27 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:08:27 -0600
Subject: [ExI] over a year
In-Reply-To: <005c01d81e8e$d448a6b0$7cd9f410$@rainier66.com>
References: <005c01d81e8e$d448a6b0$7cd9f410$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEa8x8dUbC2hZHdD_eT=_QPEXO0xxgWm8W7RMz+xYaKnAA@mail.gmail.com>

censored?  by whom?   bill w

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 9:02 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> Something I have wondered for over a year now since covid vaccines came
> along: what happens if someone takes several of them?
>
>
>
> Bloomberg published a study from the European Medicines Agency which
> suggests it could weaken the immune system:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says
>
>
>
> That same article mentioned something that would have caused it to be
> censored until recently: paxlovid and remdesivir are effective antivirals
> against covid.
>
>
>
> spike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Thu Feb 10 16:48:54 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 08:48:54 -0800
Subject: [ExI] over a year
In-Reply-To: <CAO+xQEa8x8dUbC2hZHdD_eT=_QPEXO0xxgWm8W7RMz+xYaKnAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005c01d81e8e$d448a6b0$7cd9f410$@rainier66.com>
 <CAO+xQEa8x8dUbC2hZHdD_eT=_QPEXO0xxgWm8W7RMz+xYaKnAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007901d81e9e$17b7d7e0$472787a0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] over a year

 

censored?  by whom?   bill w

 

Facebook and Twitter.  In their most active phase, they were issuing warnings and in some cases suspending accounts for anyone posting that antivirals work against covid.

 

spike

 

 

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From atymes at gmail.com  Thu Feb 10 18:17:31 2022
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:17:31 -0800
Subject: [ExI] over a year
In-Reply-To: <005c01d81e8e$d448a6b0$7cd9f410$@rainier66.com>
References: <005c01d81e8e$d448a6b0$7cd9f410$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNQ_coiyHLy6+cm3Jhd=38AfBBGAW4v6Sg_K2Mus1Q1Lcw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 7:01 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Something I have wondered for over a year now since covid vaccines came
> along: what happens if someone takes several of them?
>

Non-serious but slightly famous memetic answer:
https://www.tiktok.com/@richblackguy/video/6950024923339443462?lang=en
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 00:45:32 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:45:32 -0600
Subject: [ExI] blocking
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>

I signed on to get traffic reports and now I get so many that I want them
to stop.  So I marked them as spam (in Gmail) over and over and they just
aren't stopping.

Anyone have a solution to this?

bill w
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From spike at rainier66.com  Fri Feb 11 00:54:13 2022
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:54:13 -0800
Subject: [ExI] blocking
In-Reply-To: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005401d81ee1$e3d3c0d0$ab7b4270$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
Subject: [ExI] blocking

 

>?I signed on to get traffic reports and now I get so many that I want them to stop.  So I marked them as spam (in Gmail) over and over and they just aren't stopping.

 

>?Anyone have a solution to this?

 

>?bill w

 

 

 

 

 

Muwaaaahahahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaa? We have you now, my pretty.  There is no escape.  You will be assimilated?

 

Billw, have you tried spam-blocking their domain rather than just their @?

 

Did you check your spam list to make sure Gmail is getting the message?

 

spike

 

 

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From pharos at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 01:05:55 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 01:05:55 +0000
Subject: [ExI] blocking
In-Reply-To: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armhqFkJ1tGPp2PsPgfZ4+jnjP_1p4Mk6TBeFd-QdM+b-0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 00:48, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I signed on to get traffic reports and now I get so many that I want them to stop.  So I marked them as spam (in Gmail) over and over and they just aren't stopping.
>
> Anyone have a solution to this?
>
> bill w
> _______________________________________________


Anything that you sign on for should also have an unsubscribe method.
Sometimes it is an unsubscribe link at the foot of emails.
Sometimes you have to sign on to your account on the website to unsubscribe.

BillK

From foozler83 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 01:28:19 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 19:28:19 -0600
Subject: [ExI] blocking
In-Reply-To: <005401d81ee1$e3d3c0d0$ab7b4270$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <005401d81ee1$e3d3c0d0$ab7b4270$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEauMaZDRT1cen2=g+o+A6VS15W7DWkukHBLEjCpM_Ohdw@mail.gmail.com>

got 'er done - thanks spike and bill k   bill w

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 6:56 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *?*> *On Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
> *Subject:* [ExI] blocking
>
>
>
> >?I signed on to get traffic reports and now I get so many that I want
> them to stop.  So I marked them as spam (in Gmail) over and over and they
> just aren't stopping.
>
>
>
> >?Anyone have a solution to this?
>
>
>
> >?bill w
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Muwaaaahahahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaa? We have you now, my pretty.  There
> is no escape.  You will be assimilated?
>
>
>
> Billw, have you tried spam-blocking their domain rather than just their @?Don't
> know how to do that.
>

>
> Did you check your spam list to make sure Gmail is getting the message?
>
>  ff
>
> spike
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From msd001 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 06:11:38 2022
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 01:11:38 -0500
Subject: [ExI] blocking
In-Reply-To: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+xQEbDMqBwR2zO83=Ut5bZehTuXHxF4KrMMEYHbOUN5D4j4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdbLSiVEeMqUDgmv46CNird9iJhDBidqvCj0iboxn7uA3dg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 7:47 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I signed on to get traffic reports and now I get so many that I want them
> to stop.  So I marked them as spam (in Gmail) over and over and they just
> aren't stopping.
>
> Anyone have a solution to this?
>

If the unsubscribe isn't honored and telling google it's spam does work,
you could build a rule to automatically delete messages from that sender.

I saw you did solve this one instance,  but in general the automated delete
is pretty effective once you wrap your mind around how [gmail] requires you
to do it.
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 18:04:08 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:04:08 -0600
Subject: [ExI] The Expanse
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEZv+DGoCuTyBuEii3zcZxm1Jqc_asLmT8eXvX4dNj3swA@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to get comments on the TV series from people who read all the
books.  Thanks!

bill w
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 18:34:39 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:34:39 -0600
Subject: [ExI] Fwd: [Extropolis] MuZero
In-Reply-To: <CAJPayv3gV7hbkweeVzi0tvHbAmocZ6QE3=FH6_Ri62Kbs2XB2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJPayv3yWsdQKOPpLCLZLJ7DAxPxz3_pT_5Dm_3=z7S0kFjfqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyHQBaZf=dnyRvK+LrcC=Zj=hxWzRErqozWpeszV2BGFWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJPayv1LpNQt1nK2kyeKNgn2UnBeRFZaErLs381smktYz_FJUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyEeOE31c1j4znOeQBmJGxb+FMNm3Cg9hBQPHF-dD8sYrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO+xQEa19k7XV2o+AKTMuu1M96yaKy751k3L2qb6GPbeifDN6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyFAZw9onnnc7k0e2jwEg=unR6F=ZVRWtwEQ046WzKcC-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJPayv27r6hFQ3J2BY6M2Th_wBSyZR6OKVJnTtxQBfoYjLk=jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyEZFct4Ak49mBLYBAtZEFi_ZNUqYKCfv0dAQWTFQkTifQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH=2ypVAdckiREO=csmMXdqiOeNcRFx8LstAKBXzQ4FFWFcLFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyF023_4DGui+CLJ+3WD2bSJre9vtrZu_5Lb2W+XT5DLcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJPayv0q+K9qt+ZZWPvxn6o+QW2eSZ0_WHL=3TZ5QLY-4EOzAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyET=20Z=DHZogGp_DqhJ_nRvVrRzhcn+pJ79HkYLBP4Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJPayv34qQD=z4yVHLOmhppQkUDehBD1=JwXTAJHzDAeoe5wsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyGvuye6nVxoVyTsKXn6h1BOBA+Zq67bbwy9d2RPit43dQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJPayv0G14g4mTmBCCP6df=hr750nn_a1j5WugWqKfJ=cZqQbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO+xQEarVkihw9D7_hroRvFf7=Vsc9J3Los-+EPE=48Zk=Te4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJPayv3gV7hbkweeVzi0tvHbAmocZ6QE3=FH6_Ri62Kbs2XB2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEbehMt=OuSXZ1EFLDk5z4vgz-GTHvqLmqGhjROnyrkhXA@mail.gmail.com>

I am now looking at data in my epigenetics book that strongly suggests that
stress in the womb (mother depressed for one example) alters methylation as
long as middle age in the blood and the brain.  I hope to find data that
these results of stress can be reversed with drugs or some other therapy.
It looks very much like childhood trauma can change a person permanently.
"Get it over it" doesn't change your epigenetics.   bill w

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 5:26 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022 at 8:19 PM William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> the recipe for building the cell's entire epigenetic system, and
>>> that's why I said epigenetics does not add anything to that 750 megabyte
>>> figure that I've been mentioning.
>>
>>
>> > Perhaps so, but the changes in the epigenetic system are controlled by
>> the environment, not the genes, and could change several times in one's
>> lifetime.
>>
>
> I agree.
>
> John K Clark
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "extropolis" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to extropolis+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/CAJPayv3gV7hbkweeVzi0tvHbAmocZ6QE3%3DFH6_Ri62Kbs2XB2w%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/CAJPayv3gV7hbkweeVzi0tvHbAmocZ6QE3%3DFH6_Ri62Kbs2XB2w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 16 00:26:19 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 00:26:19 +0000
Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?West=E2=80=99s_megadrought_worsens_to_driest_in_?=
	=?utf-8?q?at_least_1=2C200_years?=
Message-ID: <CAL_armgsa5CgtTVPrE2efVMXk_onf0Qsmo1XZLiSDEObjBx-eQ@mail.gmail.com>

By ? Seth Borenstein, Associated Press
Science Feb 14, 2022

<https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/west-megadrought-worsens-to-driest-in-at-least-1200-years>

Quotes:
The American West?s megadrought deepened so much last year that it is
now the driest in at least 1,200 years and is a worst-case climate
change scenario playing out live, a new study finds.

A dramatic drying in 2021 ? about as dry as 2002 and one of the driest
years ever recorded for the region ? pushed the 22-year drought past
the previous record-holder for megadroughts in the late 1500s and
shows no signs of easing in the near future, according to a study
Monday in the journal Nature Climate Change.

Williams said there is a direct link between drought and heat and the
increased wildfires that have been devastating the West for years.
Fires need dry fuel that drought and heat promote.
------------

Not a good outlook for the western states.

BillK


From max at maxmore.com  Wed Feb 16 06:32:01 2022
From: max at maxmore.com (Max More)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 06:32:01 +0000
Subject: [ExI] 
 =?windows-1252?q?West=92s_megadrought_worsens_to_driest_in?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_at_least_1=2C200_years?=
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgsa5CgtTVPrE2efVMXk_onf0Qsmo1XZLiSDEObjBx-eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgsa5CgtTVPrE2efVMXk_onf0Qsmo1XZLiSDEObjBx-eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR06MB5239DCF20137AC4C2D5674F0A0359@BYAPR06MB5239.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

PBS is one of the many homes of environmental hysteria. Here's a different perspective:

Roger Pielke Jr. Weighs in on This Week?s Hysteria: Drought ? Watts Up With That?<https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/06/14/pielke-jr-weighs-in-on-drought/>
________________________________
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> on behalf of BillK via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 5:26 PM
To: Extropy Chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: BillK <pharos at gmail.com>
Subject: [ExI] West?s megadrought worsens to driest in at least 1,200 years

By ? Seth Borenstein, Associated Press
Science Feb 14, 2022

<https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/west-megadrought-worsens-to-driest-in-at-least-1200-years>

Quotes:
The American West?s megadrought deepened so much last year that it is
now the driest in at least 1,200 years and is a worst-case climate
change scenario playing out live, a new study finds.

A dramatic drying in 2021 ? about as dry as 2002 and one of the driest
years ever recorded for the region ? pushed the 22-year drought past
the previous record-holder for megadroughts in the late 1500s and
shows no signs of easing in the near future, according to a study
Monday in the journal Nature Climate Change.

Williams said there is a direct link between drought and heat and the
increased wildfires that have been devastating the West for years.
Fires need dry fuel that drought and heat promote.
------------

Not a good outlook for the western states.

BillK

_______________________________________________
extropy-chat mailing list
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
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From rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 16 07:21:56 2022
From: rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com (Rafal Smigrodzki)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 02:21:56 -0500
Subject: [ExI] 
	=?utf-8?q?West=E2=80=99s_megadrought_worsens_to_driest_in_?=
	=?utf-8?q?at_least_1=2C200_years?=
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgsa5CgtTVPrE2efVMXk_onf0Qsmo1XZLiSDEObjBx-eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgsa5CgtTVPrE2efVMXk_onf0Qsmo1XZLiSDEObjBx-eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAc1gFiF_o+666u9PcFzu4pSSGENi2k864Tm=FXiV-xokR1uWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 7:29 PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> By ? Seth Borenstein, Associated Press
> Science Feb 14, 2022


### Seth Borenstein has a long history of writing breathless sky-is-falling
nonsense.

Rafal
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From ben at zaiboc.net  Wed Feb 16 17:58:42 2022
From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:58:42 +0000
Subject: [ExI] The Expanse
In-Reply-To: <mailman.56.1644971231.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
References: <mailman.56.1644971231.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
Message-ID: <8033198b-cae6-0e76-ebd3-7d1461113762@zaiboc.net>

On 16/02/2022 00:27, bill w wrote:
> I would like to get comments?on the TV series from people who read all 
> the books. Thanks!
>

Ooh, I didn't know there were books! I will read them after I've 
finished the TV series. I can comment on that, even though I haven't 
read the books yet. First I heard of it, I tried it, and my impression 
was: Wannabe Blade Runner meets wannabe Dark Matter, and fails to live 
up to either, so I stopped watching. A couple of years later, I gave it 
another chance (possibly because of a comment on here, not sure), and 
persevered past the point I had quit earlier. I warmed to it, and ended 
up liking it. So now just at the beginning of Series 3, looking forward 
to what happens next.

If anyone else was put off by the weak Blade Runner vibe at the 
beginning, I can say it gets much better. Worth persevering with.

So thanks, Bill, for alerting me to the fact that there are books. I 
already want to read the Altered Carbon books that I never bothered with 
before, but now have an interest in since seeing that TV series.

Ben
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 16 21:58:02 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 15:58:02 -0600
Subject: [ExI] The Expanse
In-Reply-To: <8033198b-cae6-0e76-ebd3-7d1461113762@zaiboc.net>
References: <mailman.56.1644971231.826.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>
 <8033198b-cae6-0e76-ebd3-7d1461113762@zaiboc.net>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEY77eyn968aOU9pb628hCjPvYh2Y122hjNA0v8L0sESgg@mail.gmail.com>

Well, at least you won't have to wait, Ben, the way I have had to, for
years waiting for the next book.  The last one, #9, just came out.   bill w

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 3:43 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 16/02/2022 00:27, bill w wrote:
>
> I would like to get comments on the TV series from people who read all the
> books.  Thanks!
>
>
> Ooh, I didn't know there were books! I will read them after I've finished
> the TV series. I can comment on that, even though I haven't read the books
> yet. First I heard of it, I tried it, and my impression was: Wannabe Blade
> Runner meets wannabe Dark Matter, and fails to live up to either, so I
> stopped watching. A couple of years later, I gave it another chance
> (possibly because of a comment on here, not sure), and persevered past the
> point I had quit earlier. I warmed to it, and ended up liking it. So now
> just at the beginning of Series 3, looking forward to what happens next.
>
> If anyone else was put off by the weak Blade Runner vibe at the beginning,
> I can say it gets much better. Worth persevering with.
>
> So thanks, Bill, for alerting me to the fact that there are books. I
> already want to read the Altered Carbon books that I never bothered with
> before, but now have an interest in since seeing that TV series.
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Thu Feb 17 20:25:17 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 20:25:17 +0000
Subject: [ExI] New Atomic Clocks Measure Einstein Time Dilation
Message-ID: <CAL_armhBL7cT_6K=vPOBcjTJu37LM=d7RSREtGvkftQzZh5rSA@mail.gmail.com>

New Atomic Clocks Measure Time Dilation of Einstein?s General
Relativity at Millimeter Scale
By National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Feb 16, 2022

<https://scitechdaily.com/new-atomic-clocks-measure-time-dilation-of-einsteins-general-relativity-at-millimeter-scale/>

Quote:
JILA physicists have measured Albert Einstein?s theory of general
relativity, or more specifically, the effect called time dilation, at
the smallest scale ever, showing that two tiny atomic clocks,
separated by just a millimeter or the width of a sharp pencil tip,
tick at different rates.

Einstein?s 1915 theory of general relativity explains large-scale
effects such as the gravitational effect on time and has important
practical applications such as correcting GPS satellite measurements.
Although the theory is more than a century old, physicists remain
fascinated by it. NIST scientists have used atomic clocks as sensors
to measure relativity more and more precisely, which may help finally
explain how its effects interact with quantum mechanics, the rulebook
for the subatomic world.
--------------

BillK


From brent.allsop at gmail.com  Tue Feb 22 17:13:05 2022
From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:13:05 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Can Samsung Watches do Blood Pressure in your country?
Message-ID: <CAK7-onua-W2RBQy8Y6s=GkNVAu=10x5UXVz34ULVmjTnDGRRAg@mail.gmail.com>

I HATE the FDA!! in the US.

As I diabetic they so screw up my life.  You can't believe how much trouble
and money I had to pay someone, in Germany, to get a good insulin pump that
can work with a DIY system, simply because the FDA makes it near impossible
to get them in the US.  And the FDA so hobbles big medical companies, and
they are soooo afraid of law suits, and they only care about profits,
totally screws up the lives of diabetes.


Now I want to get a Samsung smart watch that can help monitor my blood
pressure, but the fff'n FDA is saying no in the US
<https://us.community.samsung.com/t5/Galaxy-Watch/Blood-pressure-feature-ETA-Samsung/td-p/1946223>!
Damn them.

Anyway, is there anyone in a country (Britain?  Australia?)  who knows the
Samsung watch can do blood pleasure measurements?  If so, could you contact
me.  I'd pay good money (or Ether) for you to buy me one and ship it to me.

Thanks
Brent Allsop

P.S.  CC my personal brent.allsop at gmail.com, as I sometimes miss posts to
the ExI list.

Thanks
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From henrik.ohrstrom at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 06:36:30 2022
From: henrik.ohrstrom at gmail.com (Henrik Ohrstrom)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:36:30 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Can Samsung Watches do Blood Pressure in your country?
In-Reply-To: <CAK7-onua-W2RBQy8Y6s=GkNVAu=10x5UXVz34ULVmjTnDGRRAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK7-onua-W2RBQy8Y6s=GkNVAu=10x5UXVz34ULVmjTnDGRRAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF0GBngE5LPoa6aTRh2RDsRGy29wh40XWh6VQ-Mhvr5ucCYeCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Galaxy watches with blood pressure is available in Sweden. I will check
them out closer, could be not worth the bother if the accuracy is too low
but I have not looked into them before.
Will check that out today I think, are going to the local Megamall
equivalent with the daughter today anyway.
/Henrik

Now this problem is a good cause for me to get my own BP watch, I work with
med tech problems daily.
Med tech companies (USian and actually many many other, nationalities) are
a constant pain in the bleep. GE for example are only talking to "world
leading companies" when it comes to questions about cooperation or as
simple as how does equipment X really work? As in, why do we get this
strange behaviour in this circumstance? The answer is always: talk to the
lawyer.
Shut up and go away.
And we did and GE was relieved from the onerous task of selling us
anaesthesia machines for the whole region. Cheap solution for us. Quite
many millions cheaper actually.
And we now have Dr?ger Zeus instead and I for one welcome our new
anaesthesia robot Overlords.
German lawyers are "inspired" by their US counterparts but the engineers
are not and the result is tolerable. Combine that with the most brave
design decisions this side of the singularity and you get an anaesthesia
station that enables you to reduce consumption of anaesthesia
pharmaceuticals with 25%, that is if you are an uninterested user. For a
top skill user the possibilities are even better.
I now expect and demand from my personel that an bariatric surgery patient
is able to give coherent answers before we have moved them from the OR
table to their bed. And that the patient does most of the work moving.
Aaand back to matter at hand, thanks to FDA, screw you, US won't see that
machine for many years yet. Zeus contains several closed loop functions
(autopilots) that controls gas management, ventilation control from tidal
volume and CO2 goal range and a sophisticated real time simulation of
effect organ concentration of anaesthetics, both target controlled pumps
and anaesthetic gases.
None of these really good functions are available in the US.
Nor will it be, in any close time anyway since you would have to prove that
it won't cause harm to the patient to use them. And and and and lots of
depression ensues because proving that in a way that satisfy FDA is more
than even a megacorp like Dr?ger can deal with. :(

//Henrik



Den tis 22 feb. 2022 18:16Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> skrev:

>
> I HATE the FDA!! in the US.
>
> As I diabetic they so screw up my life.  You can't believe how much
> trouble and money I had to pay someone, in Germany, to get a good insulin
> pump that can work with a DIY system, simply because the FDA makes it near
> impossible to get them in the US.  And the FDA so hobbles big medical
> companies, and they are soooo afraid of law suits, and they only care about
> profits, totally screws up the lives of diabetes.
>
>
> Now I want to get a Samsung smart watch that can help monitor my blood
> pressure, but the fff'n FDA is saying no in the US
> <https://us.community.samsung.com/t5/Galaxy-Watch/Blood-pressure-feature-ETA-Samsung/td-p/1946223>!
> Damn them.
>
> Anyway, is there anyone in a country (Britain?  Australia?)  who knows the
> Samsung watch can do blood pleasure measurements?  If so, could you contact
> me.  I'd pay good money (or Ether) for you to buy me one and ship it to me.
>
> Thanks
> Brent Allsop
>
> P.S.  CC my personal brent.allsop at gmail.com, as I sometimes miss posts to
> the ExI list.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 27 17:53:04 2022
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:53:04 -0600
Subject: [ExI] rodeo
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEYoPwyse1tpsq+1JVzfn3vr0CXzFDRFqgEWeHYvJ=kEWg@mail.gmail.com>

The annual rodeo in Jackson Ms starts with a parade through town.  Cowboys
and cowgirls ride horses or even mules and many have horse or mule drawn
carts.  When was the last time you saw a mule?

All standard fare.  But as I passed them I saw a horse pulling a golf
cart.  ( I know that you have to replace your divots on the golf course,
but horse droppings?)   Just had to be in the parade, I suppose.  I thought
I saw the horse blush once or twice.  bill w
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From giulio at gmail.com  Mon Feb 28 08:22:00 2022
From: giulio at gmail.com (Giulio Prisco)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:22:00 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Terasem Space Day, July 20: Frank Tipler, Frank White
Message-ID: <CAKTCJycVOAmcME7YHmXzipH829QxBXczguEkd4PhOUW4BdE-MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Turing Church newsletter. Terasem Space Day, July 20: Frank Tipler,
Frank White. Omega Point and Overview Effect. Also, new book by Michel
Eltchaninoff on Russian (and Western) cosmism.
https://www.turingchurch.com/p/terasem-space-say-july-20-frank-tipler?utm_source=url

From pharos at gmail.com  Mon Feb 28 09:30:05 2022
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 09:30:05 +0000
Subject: [ExI] Webb Space Telescope Mirror Alignment Continues Successfully
Message-ID: <CAL_armhBNQG-Fz2ZtCxMGt7xg8eu=jMdxqWt0Ywa2ZsEzFNKBw@mail.gmail.com>

By NASA February 27, 2022

Webb continues on its path to becoming a focused observatory. The team
has successfully worked through the second and third out of seven
total phases of mirror alignment. With the completion of these phases,
called Segment Alignment and Image Stacking, the team will now begin
making smaller adjustments to the positions of Webb?s mirrors.

<https://scitechdaily.com/webb-space-telescope-mirror-alignment-continues-successfully/>

Although Image Stacking put all the light from a star in one place on
NIRCam?s detector, the mirror segments are still acting as 18 small
telescopes rather than one big one. The segments now need to be lined
up to each other with an accuracy smaller than the wavelength of the
light.

The team is now starting the fourth phase of mirror alignment, known
as Coarse Phasing, where NIRCam is used to capture light spectra from
20 separate pairings of mirror segments. This helps the team identify
and correct vertical displacement between the mirror segments, or
small differences in their heights. This will make the single dot of
starlight progressively sharper and more focused in the coming weeks.
-------------

So far, everything seems to be working as expected!   :)

BillK