[ExI] flawed humans

[William Flynn Wallace]

And try to convince people that they are not only descended from an
ape-like creature, but from a single-celled animal.  You'd think that
people who think they got kicked out of the Garden of Eden would have a lot
more humility.    bill

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:30 AM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> That is a very inclusive definition. I like it, but good luck convincing
> the world that that is all it takes to be conscious. Many would feel
> insulted if their God given “divinity” were shared with the common
> cockroach. Humans feel the need to feel special beyond just being smarter
> than all the other animals.
>
> On Nov 30, 2022, at 10:01 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Let's try this one:  if you can react meaningfully with your environment,
> such as fleeing a  fire, then you are conscious.  bill w
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 8:13 PM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that you are putting the cart before the horse. Can you
>> prove to us that you are conscious? Before asking if silicon life forms can
>> be conscious, shouldn’t you first demonstrate that humans can be conscious?
>> You may claim to be conscious, but chatbots and robots have also made that
>> claim. You may claim to know innately that you are conscious, but I request
>> something stronger than that. I don’t even claim to be conscious. I don’t
>> know what it means to be conscious and there is no consensus on a
>> definition. If you give a definition then I can at least determine if I am
>> conscious by that definition. Consciousness might as well be on the gender
>> spectrum, some believe in it and others don’t.
>>
>> On Nov 29, 2022, at 8:02 PM, spike jones via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> …
>>
>>
>> >…I think we agree that humans are innately flawed in many ways.
>>
>> >…How about other animals?  Are any of them flawed?  In their niche they
>> seem perfectly adapted unless the niche changes a lot.   bill w
>>
>> I suppose that depends on how you look at it Billw, but I would argue
>> that all known life forms are flawed in that they are mortal.  Even if an
>> organism is one that multiplies by dividing, such that one could argue it
>> is in a sense an immortal being, it too is mortal: given enough time, that
>> species will go extinct, even without external pressure.
>>
>> On the other hand, if we had some kind of silicon-based consciousness,
>> then we could transfer ourselves over from an old substrate into a newer
>> one, so our existence would continue in a way that one could claim to be
>> the same as it was before the transfer.
>>
>> This all gets very murky and definition-dependent, so I don’t want to get
>> all tangled up.  Rather I want to help you open your mind, ask questions
>> you never asked, such as that really fundamental question: is consciousness
>> substrate dependent?
>>
>> Well, all of it we know is on a carbon-based evolution-derived substrate,
>> however… that in itself is insufficient evidence that other substrates
>> cannot be the basis of consciousness.  I don’t see a good reason why it
>> would be impossible for an alternative substrate to be the basis of
>> consciousness.  Do you?
>>
>> spike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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