[ExI] Why stop at glutamate?

efc at swisscows.email efc at swisscows.email
Fri Apr 14 11:52:02 UTC 2023

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023, Jason Resch via extropy-chat wrote:
> Communication is only possible where there exists common ground. We have common ground in the quanta/numbers/measurements of the
> physical world, but we lack common ground between our own internal states of mind.
> Which part is it that you disagree with:
> 1. That qualia are real
> 2. That qualia cannot be communicated

Depending on the definition, I disagree with 2. I agree that we have
experiences as proven by brain scans when we're exposed to various
experiences. So if instead of qualia, we'd say experiences, I have no
quarrel with experiences or states in the brain being real.

>       There are plenty of concepts that can be argued, are real, but can never
>       be experienced by others or communicated, and I think this is fertile
>       breeding ground for misconceptions and endless debates.
> Perhaps this accounts for the endless debates around consciousness over the past few hundred years.

I absolutely think that language is to blame here.

>       I read a long post on your blog and I quite liked it. Maybe you could
>       even expand on it by writing a book? =)
> I am. :-)

Looking forward to it! =)

>       Are you sure? I would say that the scientist wants to find the truth and
>       increase his understanding, but the theist would want to experience the
>       truth, but has no requirements when it comes to understanding and the
>       way or methodology of finding it.
>       I think this would be an excellent topic for a separate thread.
> I agree.

As the newcomer I'll wait for a bit, and perhaps one of the more
experienced guys will start it. ;)

> Whether the world or consciousness is more fundamental, is another topic. I am of the opinion it depends how we define world. I think
> there is something operating below our consciousness which accounts for it, but also, that in a certain sense, our consciousness is
> more fundamental than the apparent physical reality we find ourselves in. This takes a lot of background to explain, but I cover it
> in this article: https://alwaysasking.com/why-does-anything-exist/ (or if you prefer video:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hGH-roVl3w )

Thank you very much! I wonder if any of this will mirror my own thinking
about the subject. Let's see!

>       somewhere, can't remember where, that theology starts from god and tries
>       to derive the world, and philosophy (the quote I think was before the
>       strict separation of philosophy from science) starts with the world and
>       tries to drive god.
> Great quote. :-)

I _think_ I read it in Coplestones history of philosophy, but I'm not
sure. It is one of these situations where the name of the book popped up
in my mind 24 hours or so after the quote.

Best regards, 

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