[ExI] The Problem With Counterfeit People

[efc at swisscows.email]

Hello Bill,

Having grown up in a heavily socialist country, and having studied economy, I'm 
afraid I do not share your view that high taxes can be a good thing in any 
way.

I do however agree with your opinion, that "he who has the most stuff when 
he dies" is not a sound attitude to life.

But given what I've studied and experienced, as well as having met and 
spoken with a lot of people who lived in soviet russia, there is very 
little that can convince me that high taxes are a good thing.

Best regards,
Daniel


On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:

> Thanks, DAniel.  All of the strictly socialist countries are poor and have few friends.  High taxes can be a good thing if you want
> to help other people live a good and healthy life.  We need high taxes here because of our enormous debt (but we won't get them - we
> love bread and circuses and low taxes. We lead the world in storage facilities for people to store their stuff.  One of the fastest
> growing businesses.  Have to have 'stuff' to outdo your neighbors.
> 
> 'He who has the most stuff when he dies, wins')     bill w 
> 
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 1:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       Hello Bill,
>
>       It depends on how strict you are with your definitions. The swedish state
>       is among the biggest in the world relative to the rest of the economy, and
>       thus wields enormous market power being one of the biggest actors on the
>       market.
>
>       In addition to that, they stipulate laws and policies you have to follow
>       in case you want to do business with the government.
>
>       Last, but not least, for SMB:s the taxes are quite high, which also
>       distorts market forces.
>
>       So, no, the swedish government does not directly decide what the market
>       should do, but through the methods above, exerts an enormous force on it
>       making it work less efficiently.
>
>       From the individuals point of view as well, given that fact that for most,
>       more than half of their income goes away in taxes, I'd also argue that it
>       is heavily socialist.
>
>       Best regards,
>       Daniel
> 
>
>       On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
>
>       > I am not sure that's right, that Sweden is a socialist country.  I thought that the government did not run the economy,
>       and that's
>       > the defining element in socialism.   bill w
>       >
>       > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 10:03 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       >
>       >       On Thu, 18 May 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:
>       >
>       >       >> In fact, I fear that the EU, as always, will stifle this wave of innovation as well and fall behind in yet
>       another
>       >       area.
>       >       >
>       >       > Do you think the EU will experience a massive brain drain as people move where AI is more accessible? Would
>       this
>       >       possiblility incentivize the EU to soften its regulations? I don’t see how an advanced economy can remain
>       advanced and
>       >       competitive without embracing new technologies that other nations adopt.
>       >       >
>       >
>       >       I not only think the EU will experience a massive brain drain, I think
>       >       the EU _is_ experiencing a massive brain drain at the moment. It is a
>       >       region with the worlds highest taxes and most burdensome administration,
>       >       and with increased EU control over its member countries, my opinion is
>       >       that it is moving more and more towards socialism as the year go by.
>       >
>       >       If we zoom in on sweden, many entrepreneurs have left, so for instance
>       >       companies such as Ikea, Tetrapak, Skype, Minecraft, Yubikey, Candy crush
>       >       and more are either based outside sweden (today) or the founders did
>       >       start their companies in sweden, but decided to sell to american
>       >       companies.
>       >
>       >       IT is a bit blessed in that you can create huge value with few
>       >       employees. Looking at traditional companies, Volvo is partly chinese,
>       >       Absolut vodka was sold and so on.
>       >
>       >       So sweden has been very socialist and paid its price in lowered quality
>       >       of life and lowered disposable income throughout the years. I think the
>       >       EU will follow Swedens example and unless people awaken to this reality
>       >       (which I doubt, since this is a slow, multi generational decline) the EU
>       >       will be a low cost producer and tourist paradise in the future.
>       >
>       >       Best regards,
>       >       Daniel
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> 
>