[ExI] The Problem With Counterfeit People
efc at swisscows.email
efc at swisscows.email
Fri May 19 22:02:23 UTC 2023
On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
> There is no way we can even begin to pay off our debt without raising taxes. The Defense budget is absurd but no one will touch
> that. No one will touch Social Security or Medicare orMedicaid, so where will the money come from? bill w
Savings? Defaults? Privatizations? Sale of property? Budget cuts?
Secession? Decentralization?
You say "No one will touch" X and Y as if it would be a natural law, and
I do not think it is.
However, I feel as a non US person that debating US politics is not the
best use of my time, so I will leave this discussion.
If you want to discuss the pros and cons of taxes in general and why I
do not think any taxes are good I'll gladly discuss that with you here,
in a separate thread or directly through email. =)
Just to be clear with where I stand on the political spectrum. I
consider myself some kind of libertarian, anarcho-capitalist or just a
plain good, old capitalist or a classic liberal depending on the company
I am in and how much I want to tease other people. ;)
Best regards,
Daniel
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 3:47 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> Hello Bill,
>
> Having grown up in a heavily socialist country, and having studied economy, I'm
> afraid I do not share your view that high taxes can be a good thing in any
> way.
>
> I do however agree with your opinion, that "he who has the most stuff when
> he dies" is not a sound attitude to life.
>
> But given what I've studied and experienced, as well as having met and
> spoken with a lot of people who lived in soviet russia, there is very
> little that can convince me that high taxes are a good thing.
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>
>
> On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
>
> > Thanks, DAniel. All of the strictly socialist countries are poor and have few friends. High taxes can be a good thing
> if you want
> > to help other people live a good and healthy life. We need high taxes here because of our enormous debt (but we won't
> get them - we
> > love bread and circuses and low taxes. We lead the world in storage facilities for people to store their stuff. One of
> the fastest
> > growing businesses. Have to have 'stuff' to outdo your neighbors.
> >
> > 'He who has the most stuff when he dies, wins') bill w
> >
> > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 1:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > Hello Bill,
> >
> > It depends on how strict you are with your definitions. The swedish state
> > is among the biggest in the world relative to the rest of the economy, and
> > thus wields enormous market power being one of the biggest actors on the
> > market.
> >
> > In addition to that, they stipulate laws and policies you have to follow
> > in case you want to do business with the government.
> >
> > Last, but not least, for SMB:s the taxes are quite high, which also
> > distorts market forces.
> >
> > So, no, the swedish government does not directly decide what the market
> > should do, but through the methods above, exerts an enormous force on it
> > making it work less efficiently.
> >
> > From the individuals point of view as well, given that fact that for most,
> > more than half of their income goes away in taxes, I'd also argue that it
> > is heavily socialist.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
> >
> > > I am not sure that's right, that Sweden is a socialist country. I thought that the government did not run the
> economy,
> > and that's
> > > the defining element in socialism. bill w
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 10:03 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 18 May 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:
> > >
> > > >> In fact, I fear that the EU, as always, will stifle this wave of innovation as well and fall behind in
> yet
> > another
> > > area.
> > > >
> > > > Do you think the EU will experience a massive brain drain as people move where AI is more accessible?
> Would
> > this
> > > possiblility incentivize the EU to soften its regulations? I don’t see how an advanced economy can remain
> > advanced and
> > > competitive without embracing new technologies that other nations adopt.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I not only think the EU will experience a massive brain drain, I think
> > > the EU _is_ experiencing a massive brain drain at the moment. It is a
> > > region with the worlds highest taxes and most burdensome administration,
> > > and with increased EU control over its member countries, my opinion is
> > > that it is moving more and more towards socialism as the year go by.
> > >
> > > If we zoom in on sweden, many entrepreneurs have left, so for instance
> > > companies such as Ikea, Tetrapak, Skype, Minecraft, Yubikey, Candy crush
> > > and more are either based outside sweden (today) or the founders did
> > > start their companies in sweden, but decided to sell to american
> > > companies.
> > >
> > > IT is a bit blessed in that you can create huge value with few
> > > employees. Looking at traditional companies, Volvo is partly chinese,
> > > Absolut vodka was sold and so on.
> > >
> > > So sweden has been very socialist and paid its price in lowered quality
> > > of life and lowered disposable income throughout the years. I think the
> > > EU will follow Swedens example and unless people awaken to this reality
> > > (which I doubt, since this is a slow, multi generational decline) the EU
> > > will be a low cost producer and tourist paradise in the future.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Daniel
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