[ExI] The Problem With Counterfeit People
efc at swisscows.email
efc at swisscows.email
Sat May 20 16:35:12 UTC 2023
On Sat, 20 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
>
> We have at least one member who is opposed to taxes. I asked him how we would pay for police and fire and streets etc. and never got
> an answer. What is the answer, you think? I am a classic liberal and libertarian. bill w
I think those are services that can be bought from private companies if
you need them. Alternatively, they could be bundled into the service
package of insurance companies.
Best regards,
Daniel
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:04 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
>
> > There is no way we can even begin to pay off our debt without raising taxes. The Defense budget is absurd but no one
> will touch
> > that. No one will touch Social Security or Medicare orMedicaid, so where will the money come from? bill w
>
> Savings? Defaults? Privatizations? Sale of property? Budget cuts?
> Secession? Decentralization?
>
> You say "No one will touch" X and Y as if it would be a natural law, and
> I do not think it is.
>
> However, I feel as a non US person that debating US politics is not the
> best use of my time, so I will leave this discussion.
>
> If you want to discuss the pros and cons of taxes in general and why I
> do not think any taxes are good I'll gladly discuss that with you here,
> in a separate thread or directly through email. =)
>
> Just to be clear with where I stand on the political spectrum. I
> consider myself some kind of libertarian, anarcho-capitalist or just a
> plain good, old capitalist or a classic liberal depending on the company
> I am in and how much I want to tease other people. ;)
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel
>
>
> >
> > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 3:47 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > Hello Bill,
> >
> > Having grown up in a heavily socialist country, and having studied economy, I'm
> > afraid I do not share your view that high taxes can be a good thing in any
> > way.
> >
> > I do however agree with your opinion, that "he who has the most stuff when
> > he dies" is not a sound attitude to life.
> >
> > But given what I've studied and experienced, as well as having met and
> > spoken with a lot of people who lived in soviet russia, there is very
> > little that can convince me that high taxes are a good thing.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, DAniel. All of the strictly socialist countries are poor and have few friends. High taxes can be a
> good thing
> > if you want
> > > to help other people live a good and healthy life. We need high taxes here because of our enormous debt (but
> we won't
> > get them - we
> > > love bread and circuses and low taxes. We lead the world in storage facilities for people to store
> their stuff. One of
> > the fastest
> > > growing businesses. Have to have 'stuff' to outdo your neighbors.
> > >
> > > 'He who has the most stuff when he dies, wins') bill w
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 1:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > > Hello Bill,
> > >
> > > It depends on how strict you are with your definitions. The swedish state
> > > is among the biggest in the world relative to the rest of the economy, and
> > > thus wields enormous market power being one of the biggest actors on the
> > > market.
> > >
> > > In addition to that, they stipulate laws and policies you have to follow
> > > in case you want to do business with the government.
> > >
> > > Last, but not least, for SMB:s the taxes are quite high, which also
> > > distorts market forces.
> > >
> > > So, no, the swedish government does not directly decide what the market
> > > should do, but through the methods above, exerts an enormous force on it
> > > making it work less efficiently.
> > >
> > > From the individuals point of view as well, given that fact that for most,
> > > more than half of their income goes away in taxes, I'd also argue that it
> > > is heavily socialist.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am not sure that's right, that Sweden is a socialist country. I thought that the government did not
> run the
> > economy,
> > > and that's
> > > > the defining element in socialism. bill w
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 10:03 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 18 May 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> In fact, I fear that the EU, as always, will stifle this wave of innovation as well and fall
> behind in
> > yet
> > > another
> > > > area.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you think the EU will experience a massive brain drain as people move where AI is more
> accessible?
> > Would
> > > this
> > > > possiblility incentivize the EU to soften its regulations? I don’t see how an advanced economy
> can remain
> > > advanced and
> > > > competitive without embracing new technologies that other nations adopt.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I not only think the EU will experience a massive brain drain, I think
> > > > the EU _is_ experiencing a massive brain drain at the moment. It is a
> > > > region with the worlds highest taxes and most burdensome administration,
> > > > and with increased EU control over its member countries, my opinion is
> > > > that it is moving more and more towards socialism as the year go by.
> > > >
> > > > If we zoom in on sweden, many entrepreneurs have left, so for instance
> > > > companies such as Ikea, Tetrapak, Skype, Minecraft, Yubikey, Candy crush
> > > > and more are either based outside sweden (today) or the founders did
> > > > start their companies in sweden, but decided to sell to american
> > > > companies.
> > > >
> > > > IT is a bit blessed in that you can create huge value with few
> > > > employees. Looking at traditional companies, Volvo is partly chinese,
> > > > Absolut vodka was sold and so on.
> > > >
> > > > So sweden has been very socialist and paid its price in lowered quality
> > > > of life and lowered disposable income throughout the years. I think the
> > > > EU will follow Swedens example and unless people awaken to this reality
> > > > (which I doubt, since this is a slow, multi generational decline) the EU
> > > > will be a low cost producer and tourist paradise in the future.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Daniel
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