[ExI] free will

Stuart LaForge avant at sollegro.com
Fri Nov 3 04:14:53 UTC 2023

On 2023-11-01 13:46, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 at 18:03, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> This is ludicrous. Incentives and deterrents must work, otherwise 
>> people
>> would have abandoned their use a long time ago. San Francisco is a 
>> good
>> example of where Sapolsky's misguided beliefs have nearly destroyed an
>> entire city. You take away the deterrence of jail time for theft and
>> guess what? People will start stealing a lot more. So much so that
>> nobody wants to maintain a store in the city. Sapolsky sounds like he 
>> is
>> trying to undermine the rule of law with his prescription of the
>> coddling of criminals his glorification of learned helplessness. Maybe
>> not everybody has free will. Maybe there are genuinely people out 
>> there
>> who cannot control their behavior. If so, then those people pose a
>> danger to civilization and should not be tolerated. They are probably
>> doomed by natural selection any way.
>> Stuart LaForge
>> _______________________________________________
> Sapolsky readily admits that his views are controversial.  :)
> But he is not arguing against law and order. Punishments and
> incentives are part of the drivers of behaviour.
> He has published a book on the subject, reviewed here by Psychology 
> today -
> <https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/one-among-many/201709/sapolsky-free-will>

The very last line is the Psychology Today article does not make any 
sense at all. "Yet, letting elephants know that we deny them free will, 
does not turn them rogue." First of all you don't need to let an 
elephant know you are denying it free will, it is intelligent enough to 
figure that out based on the fences, chains, and goads. And it is the 
very denying them of their free will which makes them go rogue. If you 
frustrate the will of an elephant, then it might decide to squash the 
annoying little pink things. Ditto for orcas. In all of recorded 
history, the only reports of orcas, the undisputed apex predator of the 
sea killing humans has been the four deaths caused a whale in captivity.

Stuart LaForge

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