[ExI] The meaning of life? Let's solve this together, once and for all! ; )

Thu Sep 28 15:48:12 UTC 2023

Well now you're getting me curious: does anything have "meaning"? If not,
how would we know, and if so, what causes this?

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 9:42 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> The problem with the meaning of life, as with any abstraction, is that it
> does not exist. There is no extensional meaning to it.  No external
> reference.  Thus it means whatever people say it means.  If it were in
> the dictionary there would be pages and pages of usages.   None the 'real'
> meaning because there isn't any.  bill w.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:35 AM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Eliezer Yudkowsky had an interesting eary take on this in the late 90's,
>> which he has since disowned. It was basically that "We aren't smart enough
>> to determine the meaning of life. So our immediate task is to build a
>> superintelligent AGI and have it figure it out." Twenty years of research
>> into the problem of AGI alignment has amended this to "No, don't do that.
>> Unaligned AGIs will kill us all, and we don't have the foggiest idea how to
>> align them. And whatever the meaning of life actually is, a necessary
>> subgoal of achieving it is not being killed by
>> superintelligent unaligned AGIs."
>>
>> His "Meaning of Life FAQ" from the period, which can still be found on
>> archive.org, is still worth reading, even though it's core thesis is
>> demonstrably wrong and has been disowned. It has an excellent breakdown of
>> the many and varied definitions of the word "soul", which is still one of
>> the best short treatments I have ever read on the subject. (Section 4.7.1)
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xxhvL34i7AcjXtJ9phwelZ7IzHZ_xiz-8lGwpWxucI/edit
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 9:21 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Given human's infinite capacity for self-aggrandizement, people will
>>> invent meanings flattering them.  Successes will be exaggerated; failures
>>> will be rationalized.  Just the usual BS. billw
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 4:19 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good evening everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Let's solve this together, once and for all! ;)
>>>>
>>>> When it comes to the meaning of life, I believe that it cannot be found
>>>> as an
>>>> object in the world, and I do not believe that it is something that can
>>>> be told
>>>> which would instantly create meaning. I think that meaning is deeply
>>>> personal
>>>> and it is something which has to be experienced and lived in order to
>>>> express
>>>> and feel it.
>>>>
>>>> The meaning I am talking about is a deep seated, fundamental meaning
>>>> that
>>>> brings you peace as an individual.
>>>>
>>>> But, I also believe there are different levels of meaning, and although
>>>> it has
>>>> been criticized, as an approximate framework to talk within, I kind of
>>>> like
>>>> Maslows pyramid of needs. We have a need for life, a drive to live, for
>>>> safety,
>>>> food, etc. On top of that we have our everyday meaning, we need to feel
>>>> wanted
>>>> and that we produce something. I believe for instance, that the human
>>>> body was
>>>> made for input and output. If you starve the input, or starve the
>>>> output,
>>>> you'll create an imbalance that will impact your psychological health.
>>>>
>>>> So looking at positive psychology, I think we have some pointers and
>>>> tools to
>>>> give us a good foundation for worldly meaning. Add to that, a pinch of
>>>> stoicism
>>>> and epicureanism, and you can, with a bit of skill, create a nice
>>>> philosophical
>>>> "mind castle" for yourself that does away with fear of death and other
>>>> such
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> But for me, that is not Meaning with a capital m. All the previous
>>>> levels in
>>>> Maslows pyramid contribute to a good life, but at the top with have the
>>>> mystical self-actualization, and I am somewhat attracted to the earth
>>>> (or
>>>> universe) shattering realizations of a union with the universe that the
>>>> mystics
>>>> talk about.
>>>>
>>>> That might be a peak, and on the road to that peak, you can have deep
>>>> seated
>>>> ethical and moral feelings such as doctors when it comes to the
>>>> sanctity of
>>>> life, and saving lives, that give a deep meaning to your life. But just
>>>> telling
>>>> the would-be doctor that it is nice to save lives, is not enough. The
>>>> meaning
>>>> for the doctor is created when he is performing his function.
>>>>
>>>> When it does come to the lighter kind of philosophical meaning, I am
>>>> very fond
>>>> of epicureanism with the understanding that it talks about long-term
>>>> sustainable pleasure. But it could be argued, that peak mystical
>>>> experiences
>>>> are aligned with that philosophy, since a deep seated, fully realized
>>>> meaning
>>>> does bring you long-term sustainable pleasure so epicureanism can
>>>> be deeper than it looks at first sight. Actually, I'm not fond of the
>>>> word pleasure since I think brings with it bad connotations and
>>>> associations.
>>>> Perhaps contentment might be better? You're the english speaking pros,
>>>> so I'm
>>>> certain you'll be able to nail it down to a better word. =)
>>>>
>>>> So with that said, what do you all think about the meaning of life?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
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