[ExI] The meaning of life? Let's solve this together, once and for all! ; )

[efc at swisscows.email]

Thank you Bill,

So would you agree that the meaning of life could be subjectively 
meaningful for you? Or do you think that it is a "ghost" distracting 
people from more productive matters?

Best regards,
Daniel


On Thu, 28 Sep 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:

> The problem with the meaning of life, as with any abstraction, is that it does not exist. There is no extensional meaning to it.  No
> external reference.  Thus it means whatever people say it means.  If it were in the dictionary there would be pages and pages of
> usages.   None the 'real' meaning because there isn't any.  bill w.   
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:35 AM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       Eliezer Yudkowsky had an interesting eary take on this in the late 90's, which he has since disowned. It was basically
>       that "We aren't smart enough to determine the meaning of life. So our immediate task is to build a superintelligent AGI
>       and have it figure it out." Twenty years of research into the problem of AGI alignment has amended this to "No, don't do
>       that. Unaligned AGIs will kill us all, and we don't have the foggiest idea how to align them. And whatever the meaning of
>       life actually is, a necessary subgoal of achieving it is not being killed by superintelligent unaligned AGIs."
> His "Meaning of Life FAQ" from the period, which can still be found on archive.org, is still worth reading, even though it's
> core thesis is demonstrably wrong and has been disowned. It has an excellent breakdown of the many and varied definitions of
> the word "soul", which is still one of the best short treatments I have ever read on the subject. (Section 4.7.1)
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xxhvL34i7AcjXtJ9phwelZ7IzHZ_xiz-8lGwpWxucI/edit
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 9:21 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       Given human's infinite capacity for self-aggrandizement, people will invent meanings flattering them.  Successes
>       will be exaggerated; failures will be rationalized.  Just the usual BS. billw
> 
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 4:19 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       Good evening everyone,
>
>       Let's solve this together, once and for all! ;)
>
>       When it comes to the meaning of life, I believe that it cannot be found as an
>       object in the world, and I do not believe that it is something that can be told
>       which would instantly create meaning. I think that meaning is deeply personal
>       and it is something which has to be experienced and lived in order to express
>       and feel it.
>
>       The meaning I am talking about is a deep seated, fundamental meaning that
>       brings you peace as an individual.
>
>       But, I also believe there are different levels of meaning, and although it has
>       been criticized, as an approximate framework to talk within, I kind of like
>       Maslows pyramid of needs. We have a need for life, a drive to live, for safety,
>       food, etc. On top of that we have our everyday meaning, we need to feel wanted
>       and that we produce something. I believe for instance, that the human body was
>       made for input and output. If you starve the input, or starve the output,
>       you'll create an imbalance that will impact your psychological health.
>
>       So looking at positive psychology, I think we have some pointers and tools to
>       give us a good foundation for worldly meaning. Add to that, a pinch of stoicism
>       and epicureanism, and you can, with a bit of skill, create a nice philosophical
>       "mind castle" for yourself that does away with fear of death and other such
>       things.
>
>       But for me, that is not Meaning with a capital m. All the previous levels in
>       Maslows pyramid contribute to a good life, but at the top with have the
>       mystical self-actualization, and I am somewhat attracted to the earth (or
>       universe) shattering realizations of a union with the universe that the mystics
>       talk about.
>
>       That might be a peak, and on the road to that peak, you can have deep seated
>       ethical and moral feelings such as doctors when it comes to the sanctity of
>       life, and saving lives, that give a deep meaning to your life. But just telling
>       the would-be doctor that it is nice to save lives, is not enough. The meaning
>       for the doctor is created when he is performing his function.
>
>       When it does come to the lighter kind of philosophical meaning, I am very fond
>       of epicureanism with the understanding that it talks about long-term
>       sustainable pleasure. But it could be argued, that peak mystical experiences
>       are aligned with that philosophy, since a deep seated, fully realized meaning
>       does bring you long-term sustainable pleasure so epicureanism can
>       be deeper than it looks at first sight. Actually, I'm not fond of the
>       word pleasure since I think brings with it bad connotations and associations.
>       Perhaps contentment might be better? You're the english speaking pros, so I'm
>       certain you'll be able to nail it down to a better word. =)
>
>       So with that said, what do you all think about the meaning of life?
>
>       Best regards,
>       Daniel
>
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