[ExI] Legal euthanasia for mental problems increasing worldwide

[BillK]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 at 16:06, Kelly Anderson via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> The remote Pacific island of Tikopia, as described in Jared Diamond's
> book "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" (2005),
> provides a fascinating case study of a society that successfully
> managed its limited resources and survived for thousands of years. One
> of the most striking practices employed by the Tikopians was a form of
> population control called "virtual suicide," where individuals would
> voluntarily paddle out to sea, never to return, when the island's
> population grew too large to be sustainable.
>
> In Chapter 9 of "Collapse," titled "Opposite Paths to Success,"
> Diamond examines the history of Tikopia and contrasts it with the
> collapse of the nearby Mangareva Islands. He explains that Tikopia, a
> small 1.8 square mile island, sustained a stable population of around
> 1,200 people for millennia. To maintain this delicate balance, the
> Tikopians developed a complex system of resource management,
> sustainable agriculture, and population control.
>
> When the island's chiefs determined that the population had grown too
> large, they would call for volunteers to "take a canoe trip." These
> brave individuals would paddle out into the vast Pacific Ocean,
> sacrificing their lives for the greater good of their community. This
> practice, along with other measures like celibacy, delayed marriage,
> and infanticide, allowed the Tikopians to keep their population in
> check and avoid overexploiting their limited resources.
>
> While such extreme practices may seem unethical or inhumane by modern
> standards, Diamond argues that they were a necessary adaptation to the
> harsh realities of life on a small, isolated island. The Tikopians'
> willingness to make these difficult choices, he suggests, was a key
> factor in their long-term success and survival.
>
> Perhaps we can think of these people in Denmark and other countries as
> engaging in a similar kind of pro-societal sacrifice as the Tikopians.
> Does that make it ethically easier to process? Or are the actions of
> the Tikopians, despite their sustained living on an island with VERY
> limited resources, just too draconian even for this audience?
>
> -Kelly (with a little help from Claude in getting some of the details
right)
> _______________________________________________

Good to see you using Claude! That's one of the best AIs at present.  :)

However, I think you have to be careful with Jared Diamond's book. Many
people disagree with his stories.
I asked two search LLMs and Claude about the story of young men taking a
cruise to suicide.
They all disagreed. The search engines said there was no evidence to
support this story.
They do agree that the islanders practiced various methods of birth control.
Claude's answer is below. (PS. I also disagree with Diamond's Easter Islands
stories).

BillK

Claude -
Jared Diamond did make this claim about Tikopia in his book "Collapse: How
Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed." However, the accuracy of this
specific claim has been questioned by some anthropologists and researchers
who have studied Tikopia in depth.

The primary source of information on Tikopia comes from the work of
anthropologist Raymond Firth, who conducted extensive fieldwork on the
island in the 1920s and 1930s. While Firth did report on the practice of
population control, including abortion, infanticide, and celibacy, he did
not mention organized suicide voyages sanctioned by chiefs as a systematic
method of population control.

In fact, when questioned about Diamond's claim, Firth reportedly denied
that such a practice existed, stating that he had never heard of such a
thing during his time on Tikopia. Other anthropologists who have studied
the island have also expressed skepticism about Diamond's assertion.

It's possible that Diamond misinterpreted some information or extrapolated
from other practices, such as the dangerous ocean voyages that young men
would sometimes undertake, which did result in many deaths. However, these
voyages were not necessarily undertaken with the explicit intention of
suicide or population control.

While Tikopia undoubtedly had a complex system of population control
involving various cultural practices, the specific claim about organized
suicide voyages sanctioned by chiefs appears to be unsupported by the
primary anthropological sources on Tikopia. It seems to be, at best, an
exaggeration or misinterpretation of Tikopia's actual practices.

As with many historical and anthropological claims, it's important to
carefully examine the primary sources and evidence rather than relying on
secondary accounts or interpretations, which can sometimes distort or
misrepresent the original information.
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