[ExI] after upload, what?

Tue Feb 13 07:02:39 UTC 2024

Who just spools up another?  If all your active copies are subverted, which
u believe is the scenario under discussion, you might not have a way out.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 7:33 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> It can defend itself if it is instantiated into multiple computationally
> bound brains.
> If one of them accidentally falls into the sun, or gets hacked by
> some incompetent neural engineer, you just spin up another, and
> computationally bind to it to be sure it is the same,
> all the phenomenal data restored.
>
> You just need lots of cheap copies.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 6:50 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Once you're uploaded, /someone/ will be able to change every parameter of
>> your subjective conscious experience.
>>
>> If they're spectacularly nice, they may even give you permission to do so.
>>
>> But if they withold that permission, there will be absolutely nothing you
>> can do about it.
>>
>> Furthermore, they will retain the option to modify you in any way they
>> see fit. With or without your permission.
>>
>> Data can't defend itself.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 5:38 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> This topic has been discussed for a long time, Drexler wrote about it
>>> and so did Marvin Minsky.  I think I wrote about but can't find
>>> anything with the phrase "without getting lost."
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:01 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat
>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Yea, your talking consciousness or phenomenal (or "spiritual" if you
>>> will) engineering.
>>> > And you'll be able to do all these kinds of things you guys are
>>> talking about.
>>> > Right now we don't have true free will, we get joy from things like
>>> having sex.  And we need to try to resist those hard wired temptations,
>>> when sex isn't appropriate.
>>> > But true free will is having the ability to cut those puppet strings
>>> given to us by evolution (or God?) and wire joys like that up to what we
>>> want to do.
>>> > Emagine when you need to take the garbage out, and you can wire it up
>>> to be orgasmic. ;)
>>> >
>>> > Oh, and the current "world in your head" this is our knowledge of what
>>> we see, is only about a mile or so in diameter, and very low resolution,
>>> and composed of only a few color qualities.  Emagine discovering thousands
>>> more color qualities, increasing the resolution, and extents of that bubble
>>> world by many orders of magnitude.
>>> >
>>> > And of course, there is using neural ponytails to "computationally
>>> bind multiple bubble worlds together in multiple brains.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 100 years from now, once we start doing phenomenal engineering like
>>> this humanity, as we know it, will cease to exist.
>>> > Intelligence will be a very different thing.
>>> >
>>> > Our team, including Steven Lehar, are working on more videos on just
>>> this topic.  Describing in detail what uploading could be engineered to be
>>> like, and all that.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 3:19 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 09/02/2024 22:48, bill w wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I am assuming that an uploaded person can change the programming -
>>> the parameters.  So how can that work?
>>> >> Suppose one could change the enjoyment of chocolate to the most
>>> intense
>>> >> pleasure possible - like dumping a ton of dopamine into a brain.  What
>>> >> would happen?  A biological body would adapt and inhibit extreme
>>> >> reactions and probably develop an addiction and tolerance.  Not in an
>>> >> upload. You could presumably make every pleasure as intense as
>>> >> possible.
>>> >> If you read the news and there was a disaster you could turn off any
>>> >> negative emotions and just note that news cognitively - no empathy at
>>> >> all. No feeling bad.
>>> >> Is that what people want?  bill w
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Ask the opposite question: Suppose an uploaded person could not
>>> change things like their level of enjoyment (or its opposite) of specific
>>> things, and they couldn't modulate their emotional responses. Would that be
>>> what people want? Being stuck with the way you were as a biological brain?
>>> >>
>>> >> I envisage something like an 'emotional control panel' that allows
>>> you to change your emotional states, with the ability to create a whole
>>> bunch of macros that could, for instance, record the previous settings and
>>> revert to them when needed, so you could try out different settings and
>>> have them return to 'normal' after a set period of time, for example. This
>>> would enable you to safely experiment with changing things, and decide what
>>> you want to be like without risking diving down a rabbit hole with no way
>>> out. There is tons of potential with that kind of thing. Naturally, the
>>> potential for bad outcomes is huge if you could just change these things at
>>> will, so safety mechanisms, automatic backup and restore, that sort of
>>> thing, would be needed to make sure you don't accidentally turn into a
>>> hopeless junkie, a psychopath, etc., etc., and could make deliberate
>>> decisions based on temporary experiments with various states of mind.
>>> >>
>>> >> Personally, I think that an upload without these kind of capabilities
>>> would be crippled, in terms of disabling a lot of the potential benefits of
>>> being an upload.
>>> >>
>>> >> In addition, this kind of thing will probably be necessary for taking
>>> the next steps beyond just replicating a biological human's mentality. Part
>>> of the whole point of uploading would be to enable us to go above and
>>> beyond being merely human, if and when we want to.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ben
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>>> >
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