[ExI] uploads and mariachi bands

Wed Feb 14 19:54:14 UTC 2024

Tara, you have a handle on the uploading business.

18 years ago, I wrote about this in a fictional context.

In this snip, Suakulan is the AI who runs the clinic, Zaba is a
12-year-old who was shot through the spine and repaired by Suskulan.

"Zaba often talked to Suskulan.  She eventually acquired a top-level
understanding of all of human knowledge and had access to the details
through simulated memory.  Suskulan warned her that she might have a
difficult time in the physical world if she got out of communication
because her mind had expanded well beyond what could be supported in a
brain.

"Why would I want to go back to being stupid?" she responded, but,
after thinking about it, she warmed up her body and moved her
consciousness back into her original brain.  Her boyfriend was deep in
a game and would not come along.  (She had a boyfriend because the
older man her parents expected to marry her had lost interest after
asking for and being given half a dozen simulated concubines.)

Keith

On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 7:52 AM Tara Maya via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On Feb 14, 2024, at 01:53, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Agreed.  But a real experience of an illusion is not itself an illusion of an experience.   agreed  billw
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 4:42 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed.  But a real experience of an illusion is not itself an illusion of an experience.
>
>
> I agree also. But it is what it is, and not what it isn’t. And what is possible for uploads will depend entirely upon what is actually possible. What is real for uploads will depend upon what uploads can really do.
>
> That sounds tautological but it must be said to distinguish from those who believe there is no reality or reality is what you feel or everything unreal is real. And in fact, if your argument is against the existence of reality itself, we have nothing else to discuss. Jump from a thirty story building and discuss it with gravity.
>
> But back to uploads. We don’t know what’s possible yet so we have to speculate. I am saying there is a difference between the following three scenarios:
>
> A. Bob has the experience of meeting with 30 other people to listen to music and dance. Bob and Maria hit it off, go home, and conceive a child.
>
> B. Upload Bob meets with 30 other uploads to share the virtual experience of listening to music and dancing. Bob and Maria have virtual sex but never physically meet.
>
> C. Upload Bob alone has the virtual experience of listening to music and dancing and virtual sex with a bunch of hyper-realistic NPCs.
>
> In A, Bob and Maria have a real social experience and further the human race.
>
> In B, Bob and Maria have a real social experience but don’t do anything to contribute to the next generation even though the part of their brains evolved to ensure the next generation is fooled by their immense pleasure.
>
> In C, Bob is alone but his brain may be be unable to distinguish between C and A because t B. In fact, since C may be hyper-real and devoid of the friction that comes from negotiating real relationships, Bob may find C the most exciting of all.
>
> These are all real experiences but of different real situations with results that are vastly different.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2024, at 01:53, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Agreed.  But a real experience of an illusion is not itself an illusion of an experience.   agreed  billw
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 4:42 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed.  But a real experience of an illusion is not itself an illusion of an experience.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 10:45 AM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> It’s a real experience of an illusion but it’s not a real experience of that which the illusion represents.
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2024, at 08:17, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> If one experiences an illusion, is not one's experience itself real even if the thing that was experienced was an illusion?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 8:07 AM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No one can have an experience at Will if the circumstances of that experience aren’t real; they can only have the illusion of an experience.
>>>>
>>>> You could recreate a memory or a fantasy of hearing a mariachi band but unless the band of other people were there, you’d not be experiencing the band itself only the simulacra of the band.
>>>>
>>>> A painting is not the thing it portrays.
>>>>
>>>> > On Feb 13, 2024, at 02:17, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > 
>>>> >> On 13/02/2024 00:37, spike wrote:
>>>> >> For instance… what if… I upload, and realize I never have experiences
>>>> >> like one I remember with crystal vision, the way I felt in Feb 2024 at
>>>> >> Berkeley, listening to a mariachi band musically seduce young ladies
>>>> >> into situations where a next generation of meat-being is given a chance
>>>> >> to come into existence?  Regardless of how good that uploaded existence
>>>> >> is, Imagine I miss that Berkeley mariachi feeling so much, I want to see
>>>> >>  to it that the feelings I had yesterday are given a chance to be felt
>>>> >> again, into the future, indefinitely.
>>>> >
>>>> > Spike, what would prevent you, as an upload, having these experiences?
>>>> >
>>>> > If you realise you happen to never have any experiences you recall having as a biological being, you can arrange to have them again, at will, as an upload.
>>>> >
>>>> > If some mariachi band and a suitable couple haven't also uploaded, or have moved on from those behaviours, you could always recreate the experiences you were missing in your own mind. I see no reason anyone would not be able to have any experiences they wanted to, as an upload. Just as we currently have AI systems that you can give a description to, and they can create an image, still or moving, of what you've asked for, I expect there will be systems that can take a memory and turn it into an interactive experience for uploads.
>>>> >
>>>> > I fully expect that uploads will be able to have any experience any un-uploaded person can have, and then some.
>>>> >
>>>> > Ben
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