[ExI] Open Individualism

[Jason Resch]

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 1:28 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, Jason Resch via extropy-chat wrote:
>
> > Thank you Daniel, I appreciate your insights and I too was feeling
> echoes of that discussion.
>
> You're welcome Jason! =)
>
> > What it comes down to is whether we believe only what we see, or do we
> take theories literally and adopt some (less certain) belief
> > in the implications of our theories.
> >
> > Unless one is careful, it is hard to make a metaphysical commitment
> either way. As both denying the existence of other universes, as
> > well as accepting the existence of other universes is a
> metaphysical commitment. To remain agnostic one must be silent on the
> > question, to neither accept nor deny the existence of other universes
> which we do not see.
>
> I agree in the strictest and most consistent interpretation. There is
> another "trick" that some people employ and that is to argue that the
> one who deviates from the "common sense" view (that there is a physical
> reality with individuals in it) is the one who has the burden of proof,
> and absent proof, the common sense view wins.
>
> However... you know me, I am attracted by the agnostic point of view,
> and I do accept that that means that in some cases we can only shrug our
> shoulders and say "given our current evidence, we don't know".
>
> I do think however, that there are plenty of people (atheists come to
> mind) who do favour the strategy where the burden of proof of is shifted
> onto the believer in god.
>
> > As it comes to personal identity, the absolutist instrumentalist
> position could conclude only that they are a single thought moment,
> > and could never have any evidence that other future thought moments
> (from their perspective) exist or will be experienced. The
> > existence of future points in time, would be a theoretical conjecture,
> though one we must accept to operate as functioning beings in
> > the world. Thus, even the conventional / folk view of personal identity
> makes unprovable metaphysical assumptions concerning the
> > existence of unobserved entities (future experiences).
>
> Could you expand here? My interpretation would be that all future events
> have a probability of occuring and are validated by them actually
> occuring. But this is not what you mean I think.
>

Let's define the absolutist instrumentalist as someone who only accepts and
believes in *only* such things that they can observe directly, either with
their senses or their instruments.

Then consider: each of us is only ever aware of some instantaneous point in
time, a single moment of the present, perhaps containing some recollection
of past memories.

Then it follows, that the absolutist instrumentalist cannot accept the
existence of future points in time, for he cannot observe them with any
sense or instrument. It remains an unconfirmed and unconformable hypothesis
that the next moment of time exists.

It is equally an unconformable hypothesis that he, the observer presently
stuck in time t, will also experience time (t+1). So the absolutist
instrumentalist can say only that his present thought moment exists. He
cannot believe that the next one exists, nor that it will be he who will
experience it.

To thrive in the world, we have to make (and act according to), theories
about reality that we cannot prove with our senses. In this case, a
metaphysical assumption that the future exists and that we will experience
it. This assumptions is important for our survival, but it doesn't mean it
is true. Empty individualism is consistent with it not being true, for it
says each of us is eternally trapped in a single instantaneous
thought-moment, and they future thought-moments are experienced by other
people who are not you.

The absolutist instrumentalist is forced to assume no more than empty
individualism.

Jason



> Best regards,
> Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20240107/f30189c8/attachment-0001.htm>