From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May  1 12:50:01 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 13:50:01 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken
Message-ID: <CAL_armiNsqhAhr=yegmDhdNeEmsPokVzixNvMcn=bVSe5K4JiQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Internet is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the
crazy crazier.

Quote:
In 1949 Mencken assembled and edited ?A Mencken Chrestomathy?.
"A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the
crazy crazier".
H. L. Mencken  -  American journalist and writer (1880?1956)

BillK


From spike at rainier66.com  Wed May  1 13:26:49 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 06:26:49 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armiNsqhAhr=yegmDhdNeEmsPokVzixNvMcn=bVSe5K4JiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armiNsqhAhr=yegmDhdNeEmsPokVzixNvMcn=bVSe5K4JiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002e01da9bcb$39c57840$ad5068c0$@rainier66.com>


...> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
Subject: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken

The Internet is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier.

Quote:
In 1949 Mencken assembled and edited ?A Mencken Chrestomathy?.
"A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier".
H. L. Mencken  -  American journalist and writer (1880?1956)

BillK

_______________________________________________


Oh it has been such a gift.  Can you even imagine your life without the internet?  Without electronic communications?  No access to unfiltered news?  Most of my adult life has had internet, but I remember what it was like before it, in the 1980s.  We knew almost nothing.  What we did know was mostly wrong.

spike




From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May  1 14:46:16 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 15:46:16 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken
In-Reply-To: <002e01da9bcb$39c57840$ad5068c0$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAL_armiNsqhAhr=yegmDhdNeEmsPokVzixNvMcn=bVSe5K4JiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002e01da9bcb$39c57840$ad5068c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armhP5eOZ9TjC4jfy2M419W4=_2XyCOBvHsO2CJMmyGPmWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 14:26, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> Oh it has been such a gift.  Can you even imagine your life without the
internet?  Without electronic communications?  No access to unfiltered
news?  Most of my adult life has had internet, but I remember what it was
like before it, in the 1980s.  We knew almost nothing.  What we did know
was mostly wrong.
>
> spike
>-------------------------------------------


Just ask the experts at lie-telling: chatbots!
BillK


>From Llama-3

Estimating the percentage of the internet that is lies, propaganda, and
advertising is a challenging task. The internet is a vast and dynamic
space, and it's difficult to quantify the proportion of content that falls
into these categories.
However, we can look at some studies and statistics that might provide some
insight:
* A study by the Pew Research Center in 2019 found that 54% of adults in
the United States said that most or nearly all of the news they saw was
inaccurate or misleading.
*A study by the University of California, Berkeley in 2018 found that 65%
of tweets from fake accounts were propaganda or disinformation.
*A report by the Digital Content Next (DCN) in 2020 found that 72% of
online content was advertising.
While these statistics provide some insight into the prevalence of lies,
propaganda, and advertising on the internet, it's important to note that
the internet is a vast and dynamic space, and it's difficult to quantify
the proportion of content that falls into these categories.

According to www.iAsk.ai <https://iask.ai/> Ask Ai Questions Search Engine:

*Approximately 60% of web traffic is non-human, with some years having a
majority of bot traffic. This includes lies, propaganda, and advertising
that contribute to the fake aspects of the internet.*

In the case of digital ad-fraud operations like Methbot and 3ve, where
fraudsters created a simulacrum of the internet using fake websites, fake
people, and sophisticated techniques to imitate human behavior, a
significant portion of online activity is indeed deceptive. These
operations involved infecting computers with malware to generate fake web
traffic and engagement metrics to deceive advertisers into thinking their
ads were being viewed on legitimate websites.

Furthermore, the prevalence of misinformation and fake news online has been
a growing concern. Studies have shown that people tend to seek information
that aligns with their existing views, making them vulnerable to accepting
and spreading false narratives. The rise of ?fake news? and the spread of
doctored narratives by both humans and bots have challenged the credibility
of information sources on the internet.

Given these factors, it can be inferred that a substantial percentage of
internet activity involves lies, propaganda, and advertising aimed at
manipulating perceptions and influencing behaviors.
Misinformation on social media - Statistics & Facts
https//www.statista.com ? topics ? 9713 ? misinformation-on-social-media
<https://www.statista.com/topics/9713/misinformation-on-social-media/>
Most common topics of false or misleading information worldwide:
COVID-19/politics ; Ad revenue of misinformation publishing sites
worldwide: 2.6bn USD ; etc.
-------------------------
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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May  1 15:13:23 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 16:13:23 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Fast Radio Bursts - mystery
Message-ID: <CAL_armg68yoAN15DbujgaMfStUzUyyhdy4fUiyMhfQU2p35Uhg@mail.gmail.com>

Inside the quest to map the universe with mysterious bursts of radio energy

Astronomers still don?t know what causes fast radio bursts, but
they?re starting to use them to illuminate the space between galaxies.
By Anna Kramer     May 1, 2024

<https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/01/1091934/inside-the-quest-to-map-the-universe-with-mysterious-bursts-of-radio-energy/>
Quote:

When our universe was less than half as old as it is today, a burst of
energy that could cook a sun?s worth of popcorn shot out from
somewhere amid a compact group of galaxies. Some 8 billion years
later, radio waves from that burst reached Earth and were captured by
a sophisticated low-frequency radio telescope in the Australian
outback.

The signal, which arrived on June 10, 2022, and lasted for under half
a millisecond, is one of a growing class of mysterious radio signals
called fast radio bursts. In the last 10 years, astronomers have
picked up nearly 5,000 of them. This one was particularly special:
nearly double the age of anything previously observed, and three and a
half times more energetic.

But like the others that came before, it was otherwise a mystery. No
one knows what causes fast radio bursts. They flash in a seemingly
random and unpredictable pattern from all over the sky. Some appear
from within our galaxy, others from previously unexamined depths of
the universe. Some repeat in cyclical patterns for days at a time and
then vanish; others have been consistently repeating every few days
since we first identified them. Most never repeat at all.
------------------------

BillK


From spike at rainier66.com  Wed May  1 18:16:08 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 11:16:08 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armhP5eOZ9TjC4jfy2M419W4=_2XyCOBvHsO2CJMmyGPmWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armiNsqhAhr=yegmDhdNeEmsPokVzixNvMcn=bVSe5K4JiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002e01da9bcb$39c57840$ad5068c0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armhP5eOZ9TjC4jfy2M419W4=_2XyCOBvHsO2CJMmyGPmWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006b01da9bf3$a478cf70$ed6a6e50$@rainier66.com>

 

 

From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
Sent: Wednesday, 1 May, 2024 7:46 AM
To: Extropy Chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: BillK <pharos at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken

 

On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 14:26, <spike at rainier66.com <mailto:spike at rainier66.com> > wrote:
>
> Oh it has been such a gift.  Can you even imagine your life without the internet?  Without electronic communications?  No access to unfiltered news?  Most of my adult life has had internet, but I remember what it was like before it, in the 1980s.  We knew almost nothing.  What we did know was mostly wrong.
>
> spike
>-------------------------------------------



Just ask the experts at lie-telling: chatbots!

BillK

 

 

>From Llama-3

 

Estimating the percentage of the internet that is lies, propaganda, and advertising is a challenging task. The internet is a vast and dynamic space, and it's difficult to quantify the proportion of content that falls into these categories.

However, we can look at some studies and statistics that might provide some insight:

* A study by the Pew Research Center in 2019 found that 54% of adults in the United States said that most or nearly all of the news they saw was inaccurate or misleading.

*A study by the University of California, Berkeley in 2018 found that 65% of tweets from fake accounts were propaganda or disinformation.

*A report by the Digital Content Next (DCN) in 2020 found that 72% of online content was advertising.

While these statistics provide some insight into the prevalence of lies, propaganda, and advertising on the internet, it's important to note that the internet is a vast and dynamic space, and it's difficult to quantify the proportion of content that falls into these categories.

 

 

 

 

 

BillK, note something important in that survey: they reported the percentage of adults who said that most or nearly all the news they saw was inaccurate or misleading.  They took a subjective judgment and converted it into an objective measure.

 

More on that later, but think about it.  How do we determine if a news story is true, misleading, incomplete, or an outright lie?

 

spike

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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May  1 18:44:35 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 19:44:35 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Update from H. L. Mencken
In-Reply-To: <006b01da9bf3$a478cf70$ed6a6e50$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAL_armiNsqhAhr=yegmDhdNeEmsPokVzixNvMcn=bVSe5K4JiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002e01da9bcb$39c57840$ad5068c0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armhP5eOZ9TjC4jfy2M419W4=_2XyCOBvHsO2CJMmyGPmWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01da9bf3$a478cf70$ed6a6e50$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armgWYu_TiPh5VbZtiEC+bqjW_+4tm+mh-mjx+zsk-WE_og@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 19:16, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
> BillK, note something important in that survey: they reported the
percentage of adults who said that most or nearly all the news they saw was
inaccurate or misleading.  They took a subjective judgment and converted it
into an objective measure.
>
> More on that later, but think about it.  How do we determine if a news
story is true, misleading, incomplete, or an outright lie?
>
> spike
>-----------------------------

That's easy.  It's the echo chamber effect.
People believe what they want to believe.
And the continuous flood of propaganda and disinformation trains people to
believe.
There are good reasons for the billions spent on advertising and
propaganda. It works!
BillK

According to www.iAsk.ai <https://iask.ai/> Ask Ai Questions Search Engine:
<https://helpfulprofessor.com/echo-chamber-examples/>

*Internet Echo Chamber*

An internet echo chamber refers to the phenomenon where individuals are
exposed primarily to information and viewpoints that align with their
existing beliefs and preferences, creating a self-reinforcing cycle of
confirmation bias. This concept has become increasingly prevalent in the
digital age, particularly due to the personalized algorithms used by social
media platforms and search engines. These algorithms tailor content based
on users? past behavior, interactions, and interests, thereby limiting
exposure to diverse perspectives and contributing to the polarization of
opinions.

In an internet echo chamber, individuals are more likely to encounter
information that reinforces their preconceived notions while being shielded
from dissenting or challenging viewpoints. This can lead to a narrowing of
perspectives, reduced critical thinking, and a diminished capacity for
empathy towards differing opinions. The echo chamber effect can also foster
group polarization, where like-minded individuals become more extreme in
their views through repeated exposure to similar ideas.

The consequences of internet echo chambers extend beyond individual
cognitive biases. They can have significant implications for societal
discourse and democratic processes. By segregating individuals into
isolated information bubbles, these echo chambers hinder constructive
dialogue, compromise, and the formation of common ground necessary for a
healthy democracy. Moreover, they can amplify misinformation,
disinformation, and propaganda by reinforcing false narratives within
closed networks.

Efforts to combat the negative effects of internet echo chambers include
promoting serendipity in online experiences?exposing users to diverse
content outside their usual preferences?and enhancing transparency in
content curation algorithms used by platforms like Facebook, Google, and
Twitter. Addressing the issue requires a multi-faceted approach involving
technological innovations, media literacy initiatives, regulatory measures,
and individual awareness about the dangers of information silos.

In conclusion, the concept of internet echo chambers underscores the
challenges posed by personalized online experiences that prioritize
engagement over diversity of perspectives. Recognizing and mitigating these
echo chambers is essential for fostering informed citizenship, promoting
open discourse, and safeguarding democratic values in the digital age.

---------------------------------
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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May  1 21:07:00 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 22:07:00 +0100
Subject: [ExI] nasa's solar sail has deployed
In-Reply-To: <001601da98dd$c22f11f0$468d35d0$@rainier66.com>
References: <001a01da985d$2a8a7b30$7f9f7190$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armjnOctrCGY6fGh=HW4_W4op5eaq1A-X7pqph-HeNU1=LA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPiwVB6hmhWEJcj3jBnzcaB5Ko9aFgARb7oodgHXEXJkBk5BYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <001601da98dd$c22f11f0$468d35d0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armjs8p_6_1ZS9+LH3ZPbuFAqNExjtfGC3vP4CEGyegQQNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 21:01, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
> Ja, it hasta be waaaay up there in order for the light pressure to
overcome the drag from the wispy trace of atmosphere.  Many years ago, I
calculated how far up it would need to be, and was surprised at how high it
is.  This one is an experiment to test feasibility and control systems.  It
will re-enter.
>
> spike
>----------------------------

Harnessing Sunbeams for Space Travel: NASA?s Solar Sail Mission
Successfully Phones Home
By NASA May 1, 2024

<
https://scitechdaily.com/harnessing-sunbeams-for-space-travel-nasas-solar-sail-mission-successfully-phones-home/
>
Quote:
NASA?s Advanced Composite Solar Sail System has now connected with ground
operators following its April 23 launch aboard Rocket Lab?s Electron
rocket. The satellite is on its way to testing next-generation solar sail
technology, which uses the power of sunlight to propel a spacecraft. The
results from this mission will advance future space travel to expand our
understanding of our Sun and solar system.

The spacecraft was successfully delivered to a type of low Earth orbit
called a Sun-synchronous orbit. All systems show that the spacecraft is
operational and healthy.

Next, the CubeSat will undergo a one- to two-month commissioning phase to
prepare for the solar sail deployment and maneuvering test. At this time,
the sail remains within the body of the CubeSat. The mission operations
team will set a date to unfurl the sail after all commissioning tasks have
been completed. Once ready, the spacecraft will unroll it solar sail via
four booms that span the diagonals of the square and unspool to reach 23
feet (about 7 meters) in length.
------------------------------

So it looks like another few months before the solar sail is deployed.

BillK
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From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May  3 09:52:40 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 10:52:40 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
Message-ID: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, The Bots Really Are Taking Over The Internet
Emma Woollacott    Apr 16, 2024

<
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2024/04/16/yes-the-bots-really-are-taking-over-the-internet/
>

Quotes:

Bots now account for nearly half of all internet traffic globally, with
so-called ?bad bots? responsible for a third.

The proportion of internet traffic generated by bots hit its highest level
last year, up 2% on the year before, according to the 2024 Imperva Bad Bot
Report
<https://www.imperva.com/resources/resource-library/reports/2024-bad-bot-report/>.
Traffic from human users fell to just 50.4%.

Bad bots have already taken over in Ireland, where they account for 71% of
traffic, and in Germany, where they account for 68%. Mexico, meanwhile,
sees 43% of traffic generated by malicious bots, with the U.S. figure
standing at 34%.

Generative AI, as you'd expect, is making things worse, with the volume of
simple bots increasing to 40% in 2023, up from 33% in 2022.

The proportion of advanced bad bots?those that closely mimic human behavior
and evade defenses?was highest in law and government at 78%, followed by
entertainment at 71% and financial services at 67%.
----------------------------------

No wonder most of our population is feeling harassed and confused!

BillK
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From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May  3 17:08:49 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 18:08:49 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Reason Magazine AI Issue June 2024
Message-ID: <CAL_armgQZxx3ZZumJ9S_KsVdXWSzHyg6WtYcRoafHv7Ab_aq1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Reason has published a good read about AI in June 2024.

We Can't Imagine the Future of AI
Introducing Reason's artificial intelligence issue
Katherine Mangu-Ward | From the June 2024 issue
<https://reason.com/2024/05/02/we-cant-imagine-the-future-of-ai/>

In the AI Economy, There Will Be Zero Percent Unemployment
AI developer Andrew Mayne explains why technology could create more
jobs and lead to unprecedented economic growth.
Andrew Mayne | From the June 2024 issue
<https://reason.com/2024/04/28/in-the-ai-economythere-will-be-zero-percent-unemployment/>

BillK

From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May  3 18:08:07 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 19:08:07 +0100
Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?You=E2=80=99ll_soon_have_your_own_digital_clone?=
Message-ID: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Why you?ll soon have a digital clone of your own
by Mike Elgan     02 May 2024

<https://www.computerworld.com/article/2097112/why-youll-soon-have-a-digital-clone-of-your-own.html>
Quotes:
AI isn?t going to replace you at work. You will.
Some of the most influential influencers on social media sites aren?t
people, but computer-generated digital creations. And soon digital
?people? will be commonplace in business.

To me, the most fascinating dimension to the digital influencer
phenomenon is the reaction of the public. Followers who presumably
know these influencers are computer-generated actually leave comments
on their posts, addressing the non-person as if they were capable of
reading and understanding comments.

It?s unsettling to think that these commenters don?t know they?re
talking to a fake person, and also unsettling to think they do know ?
and comment anyway. Some commenters are themselves virtual influencers
(no doubt playing the Instagram game of performative engagement on the
accounts one wishes to steal followers from).

This is a clue to the future: A huge chunk of the public appears to be
indifferent to whether the person who is ?influencing? them is real or
fake.
---------------

"Reality" becomes stranger and stranger..........

BillK


From spike at rainier66.com  Fri May  3 18:42:57 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 11:42:57 -0700
Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?being_replaced_at_work=2C_was=3A__RE=3A__You?=
	=?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99ll_soon_have_your_own_digital_clone?=
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003201da9d89$b8253ee0$286fbca0$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
Subject: [ExI] You?ll soon have your own digital clone

Why you?ll soon have a digital clone of your own
by Mike Elgan     02 May 2024

<https://www.computerworld.com/article/2097112/why-youll-soon-have-a-digital-clone-of-your-own.html>
Quotes:
AI isn?t going to replace you at work. You will.
Some of the most influential influencers on social media sites aren?t people, but computer-generated digital creations. And soon digital ?people? will be commonplace in business....
This is a clue to the future: A huge chunk of the public appears to be indifferent to whether the person who is ?influencing? them is real or fake.
---------------

>..."Reality" becomes stranger and stranger..........

BillK

_______________________________________________


BillK, see Simpsons, season 7, episode 7, where Homer is a safety inspector at the nuclear plant.  All he does all day is hit Y for yes, on his keyboard in response to any safety question.  He replaces himself with a drinking bird set to keep hitting Y, freeing him to cut out for the day while getting paid.  

That episode was referred to often at the office, where we liked to think of ways to automate our more routine tasks.  Never tried to replace a safety inspector, but plenty of the stuff we did was being replaced in those days by dataloggers made from the suddenly obsolete i486 desktop computers.  I wrote plenty of software for those things.  Simpsons 7.7 was a hilarious episode from nearly 30 years ago describing mechanization of our work tasks.  Here's the longer description from Wiki of the brilliant chaotic plots written in those days:




King Size Homer

Mr. Burns organizes a compulsory morning calisthenics program at the nuclear power plant, to Homer's dismay. After learning that an employee who is disabled can work from home through worker's compensation, Homer unsuccessfully tries to injure himself. Upon learning that employees who weigh 300 pounds (140 kg) or more qualify as disabled, he begins eating excessively, despite Marge and Lisa's repeated warnings that he is endangering his health. With Bart and Dr Nick's help, Homer eventually increases his weight to 315 pounds (143 kg) and Mr. Burns installs a stay-at-home work terminal in the Simpson house. Marge admits that she finds herself less attracted to Homer because of his weight gain, but he vows to prove he can be a better worker because of it.

Homer soon tires of his monotonous responsibilities as a safety inspector and resorts to simply typing "yes" every time the system prompts him. Looking for shortcuts, he leaves his terminal with a drinking bird to press the Y key to indicate "yes" on the keyboard and goes to the cinema. After being denied admission due to his weight and getting teased by people outside the theater, Homer returns to his station to find that his bird has fallen over and a nuclear meltdown is imminent unless the system is manually shut down.

Unable to call the plant because his fingers are too fat to dial a telephone keypad, and too heavy to drive or skateboard, Homer resorts to hitchhiking. Drivers refuse to pick him up because his bright muumuu and frantic jabbering make him seem like a lunatic. After hijacking an ice cream truck, Homer arrives at the power plant during a workout program and reaches the shutdown switch, which is situated over a tank of radioactive gas that is about to explode. He falls onto the hatch just as it bursts open and becomes stuck in it from the waist down, blocking the gas from escaping. In recognition of Homer's bravery and action to minimize the environmental damage caused by the gas release, Burns gives him a medal and offers him any reward he chooses. Homer asks Burns to help him lose weight, having seen the effect his obesity has had on his family. After Homer demonstrates his inability to do any exercise, Burns gives up and decides to simply pay for him to get liposuction, much to Homer's delight.



From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May  4 00:03:06 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 01:03:06 +0100
Subject: [ExI] 
 =?utf-8?q?You=E2=80=99ll_soon_have_your_own_digital_clone?=
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armjCgGDcaDQUFG+P_3+GkH=3btfs7JaUZYCnoRq8ssBuXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 3 May 2024 at 19:08, BillK <pharos at gmail.com> wrote:

> Why you?ll soon have a digital clone of your own
> by Mike Elgan     02 May 2024
>
> <
> https://www.computerworld.com/article/2097112/why-youll-soon-have-a-digital-clone-of-your-own.html
> >
>
>
I asked Llama-3 for an opinion and he agreed, but pointed out some possible
problems.
BillK

Llama-3 -
The concept of digital clones, also known as digital twins or virtual
humans, is rapidly gaining traction. With advancements in AI, computer
vision, and machine learning, it's becoming increasingly possible to create
highly realistic digital replicas of individuals. Here are some reasons why
I think many people could have a digital clone soon:

1. **Influencer marketing**: As you mentioned, some influencers are already
digital-only, and their online presence is a significant part of their
brand. A digital clone could help them scale their influence, create more
content, and engage with their audience in new ways.
2. **Virtual entertainment**: The entertainment industry is already
exploring digital humans in movies, TV shows, and video games. With the
rise of virtual events and experiences, digital clones could become a norm
for celebrities, musicians, and other performers.
3. **Healthcare and wellness**: Digital clones could be used to create
personalized avatars for health and wellness purposes, such as virtual
fitness coaching, medical simulations, or mental health therapy.
4. **Education and training**: Digital clones could revolutionize online
learning by providing personalized, interactive, and immersive experiences
for students. They could also be used for corporate training, customer
service, and sales simulations.
5. **Social interaction and companionship**: As people become more
comfortable with virtual interactions, digital clones could provide
companionship, emotional support, and social interaction for those who are
isolated, elderly, or have disabilities.
6. **Digital legacy**: A digital clone could serve as a digital legacy,
allowing individuals to preserve their personality, memories, and
experiences for future generations.
7. **Advancements in AI and computer vision**: The rapid progress in AI,
machine learning, and computer vision is making it possible to create
highly realistic digital humans. This technology will continue to improve,
making digital clones more accessible and affordable.

However, there are also concerns and challenges associated with digital
clones, such as:

1. **Privacy and security**: Digital clones would require vast amounts of
personal data, which raises concerns about privacy, security, and potential
misuse.
2. **Identity and authenticity**: The creation of digital clones could blur
the lines between reality and virtual reality, leading to questions about
identity, authenticity, and the nature of self.
3. **Ethical considerations**: Digital clones could be used to manipulate
or deceive people, which raises ethical concerns about their use and
regulation.

In conclusion, while there are challenges to be addressed, I believe that
digital clones will become more prevalent in the near future. As the
technology continues to evolve, we can expect to see digital clones being
used in various industries and aspects of life, from entertainment and
education to healthcare and social interaction.
-------------------------------------------
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From efc at swisscows.email  Sat May  4 10:43:30 2024
From: efc at swisscows.email (efc at swisscows.email)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 12:43:30 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>

Does that include spam as well?

On Fri, 3 May 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:

> Yes, The Bots Really Are Taking Over The Internet
> Emma Woollacott ? ?Apr 16, 2024
> 
> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2024/04/16/yes-the-bots-really-are-taking-over-the-internet/>
> 
> Quotes:
> 
> Bots now account for nearly half of all internet traffic globally, with so-called ?bad bots? responsible for a third.
> 
> The proportion of internet traffic generated by bots hit its highest level last year, up 2% on the year before, according to the 2024
> Imperva Bad Bot Report. Traffic from human users fell to just 50.4%.
> 
> Bad bots have already taken over in Ireland, where they account for 71% of traffic, and in Germany, where they account for 68%.
> Mexico, meanwhile, sees 43% of traffic generated by malicious bots, with the U.S. figure standing at 34%.
> 
> Generative AI, as you'd expect, is making things worse, with the volume of simple bots increasing to 40% in 2023, up from 33% in
> 2022.
> 
> The proportion of advanced bad bots?those that closely mimic human behavior and evade defenses?was highest in law and government at
> 78%, followed by entertainment at 71% and financial services at 67%.
> ----------------------------------
> 
> No wonder most of our population is feeling harassed and confused!
> 
> BillK
> 
> 
>

From efc at swisscows.email  Sat May  4 10:45:41 2024
From: efc at swisscows.email (efc at swisscows.email)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 12:45:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [ExI] =?iso8859-7?q?You=A2ll_soon_have_your_own_digital_clone?=
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgTvB39XDH2s9aPjm6taVrD+Cf2c5uxdkhOcRKm-nAgNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb1eb0c5-f3cb-c66b-d4df-0c35a5f764ac@swisscows.email>



On Fri, 3 May 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:

> Why you?ll soon have a digital clone of your own
> by Mike Elgan     02 May 2024
>
> <https://www.computerworld.com/article/2097112/why-youll-soon-have-a-digital-clone-of-your-own.html>
> Quotes:
> AI isn?t going to replace you at work. You will.
> Some of the most influential influencers on social media sites aren?t
> people, but computer-generated digital creations. And soon digital
> ?people? will be commonplace in business.
>
> To me, the most fascinating dimension to the digital influencer
> phenomenon is the reaction of the public. Followers who presumably
> know these influencers are computer-generated actually leave comments
> on their posts, addressing the non-person as if they were capable of
> reading and understanding comments.
>
> It?s unsettling to think that these commenters don?t know they?re
> talking to a fake person, and also unsettling to think they do know ?
> and comment anyway. Some commenters are themselves virtual influencers
> (no doubt playing the Instagram game of performative engagement on the
> accounts one wishes to steal followers from).
>
> This is a clue to the future: A huge chunk of the public appears to be
> indifferent to whether the person who is ?influencing? them is real or
> fake.

Reminds me of William Gibsons Idoru, where someone wants to marry a 
virtual personality. He did look pretty far into the future! But 
cyberspace does seem to be very elusive though. ;)

Plot summary:

In the post Tokyo/San Francisco earthquake world of the early 21st 
century, Colin Laney is referred to agents of rock and roll megastar Rez 
(of the musical group Lo/Rez) for a job using his peculiar talent of 
sifting through vast amounts of mundane data to find "nodal points" of 
particular relevance. Rez has claimed to want to marry a synthetic 
personality named Rei Toei, the Idoru (a Japanese virtual idol) of the 
title, a claim stranger than usual and therefore questioned by his loyal 
staff, particularly by his head of security, Keith Blackwell. Blackwell 
believes that someone is manipulating Rez, and wants Laney to find out 
who.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru

Best regards,
Daniel


> ---------------
>
> "Reality" becomes stranger and stranger..........
>
> BillK
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat

From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May  4 11:34:09 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 12:34:09 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
In-Reply-To: <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>
References: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>
Message-ID: <CAL_armis0vA0q9D6hWh+7wZWyu4Er6dqr6wA2d2opwHY6up3Qw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 4 May 2024 at 11:47, efc--- via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Does that include spam as well?
>_______________________________________________


It does include bot automated spam.
See: <https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/internet-bots-web-traffic-imperva-b2339153.html>
Quote:
Bad bot activity can include anything from spam that clogs up email
inboxes, to advanced systems that carry out brute force attacks to
hack into people?s emails or online accounts.
--------------

But much of the spam and fraud may not be automated by bots.
A lot of criminal gang activity may be personal attacks, like the
"romance" scams from Nigeria.
That statistic was from 2023. It gets worse every year!


BillK


From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May  4 15:19:10 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 16:19:10 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
Message-ID: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>

May 03, 2024
You can soon buy a sex robot equipped with artificial intelligence for
about $20,000

The latest sex robot comes equipped with artificial intelligence,
making her feel very real with the ability to ask questions and
remember personal details.

<https://digitalhabitats.global/blogs/cobots-1/you-can-soon-buy-a-sex-robot-equipped-with-artificial-intelligence-for-about-20-000>

The 7-minute video includes a factory visit and a conversation with
the AI doll "Harmony".
The robot has facial movements in eyes and lips, but no motorised
body movements (at present).

BillK

From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Sat May  4 16:22:10 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 09:22:10 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB7MbyQt91YdbEt+MayZr8+Fm6Gaikt46SyzifriSoswcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Two of Charles Stross's novels are set in a world where sex bots
caused the human race to go extinct.

I don't think this is being considered as one of the dangers of AI,
but it should be.

Keith

On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 8:46?AM BillK via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> May 03, 2024
> You can soon buy a sex robot equipped with artificial intelligence for
> about $20,000
>
> The latest sex robot comes equipped with artificial intelligence,
> making her feel very real with the ability to ask questions and
> remember personal details.
>
> <https://digitalhabitats.global/blogs/cobots-1/you-can-soon-buy-a-sex-robot-equipped-with-artificial-intelligence-for-about-20-000>
>
> The 7-minute video includes a factory visit and a conversation with
> the AI doll "Harmony".
> The robot has facial movements in eyes and lips, but no motorised
> body movements (at present).
>
> BillK
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat


From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May  4 16:07:39 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 09:07:39 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002f01da9e3d$306e0040$914a00c0$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of
BillK via extropy-chat
...
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available

May 03, 2024
>...You can soon buy a sex robot equipped with artificial intelligence for
about $20,000

...

<https://digitalhabitats.global/blogs/cobots-1/you-can-soon-buy-a-sex-robot-
equipped-with-artificial-intelligence-for-about-20-000>

...

BillK
_______________________________________________



OK, we're done.  Finished!  Humanity is soooo over, dead and gone.  The
Great Filter is mysterious no more.  And all along we thought it was going
to be nukes or lab viruses or unfriendly AI doing us in.  It was none of
that.  We have screwed ourselves.

spike


From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May  4 17:32:19 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 18:32:19 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
In-Reply-To: <002f01da9e3d$306e0040$914a00c0$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002f01da9e3d$306e0040$914a00c0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armhOjokEZXdgMyu+oLEL0Sr1UwGwhFwC3c_eexzx_XcVEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 4 May 2024 at 17:07, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> OK, we're done.  Finished!  Humanity is soooo over, dead and gone.  The
> Great Filter is mysterious no more.  And all along we thought it was going
> to be nukes or lab viruses or unfriendly AI doing us in.  It was none of
> that.  We have screwed ourselves.
>
> spike
>-----------------------------------------

As you know, there is a lot of work going into giving robots mobile bodies.
Mainly for factory work. But they are very expensive at present,
as well as being not very human-like in their movements.
But money is being poured into research.

See: <https://digitalhabitats.global/blogs/cobots-1/seductive-female-robot-shows-how-it-will-replace-humans>
Quote:
May 03, 2024
Seductive Female Robot Shows How It Will Replace Humans!
AI and robotics are rapidly advancing, raising concerns about their
potential to replace humans in various tasks and sparking debates
about robot rights and potential dangers.
The development of advanced female robot Sarah signals the age of the
machines and the potential replacement of humans by robots.
----------------------------

(This is a different project from the Harmony robot).

BillK

From atymes at gmail.com  Sat May  4 12:06:12 2024
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 08:06:12 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
In-Reply-To: <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>
References: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNSAEprjSE5MSYVb01YX2_tp=MK2+awijT_8=fD9b61ddQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes.  Much of the "bad bot" portion is spam.

On Sat, May 4, 2024, 6:46?AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Does that include spam as well?
>
> On Fri, 3 May 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:
>
> > Yes, The Bots Really Are Taking Over The Internet
> > Emma Woollacott    Apr 16, 2024
> >
> > <
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2024/04/16/yes-the-bots-really-are-taking-over-the-internet/
> >
> >
> > Quotes:
> >
> > Bots now account for nearly half of all internet traffic globally, with
> so-called ?bad bots? responsible for a third.
> >
> > The proportion of internet traffic generated by bots hit its highest
> level last year, up 2% on the year before, according to the 2024
> > Imperva Bad Bot Report. Traffic from human users fell to just 50.4%.
> >
> > Bad bots have already taken over in Ireland, where they account for 71%
> of traffic, and in Germany, where they account for 68%.
> > Mexico, meanwhile, sees 43% of traffic generated by malicious bots, with
> the U.S. figure standing at 34%.
> >
> > Generative AI, as you'd expect, is making things worse, with the volume
> of simple bots increasing to 40% in 2023, up from 33% in
> > 2022.
> >
> > The proportion of advanced bad bots?those that closely mimic human
> behavior and evade defenses?was highest in law and government at
> > 78%, followed by entertainment at 71% and financial services at 67%.
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > No wonder most of our population is feeling harassed and confused!
> >
> > BillK
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From efc at swisscows.email  Sat May  4 17:55:09 2024
From: efc at swisscows.email (efc at swisscows.email)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 19:55:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
In-Reply-To: <CALAdGNSAEprjSE5MSYVb01YX2_tp=MK2+awijT_8=fD9b61ddQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>
 <CALAdGNSAEprjSE5MSYVb01YX2_tp=MK2+awijT_8=fD9b61ddQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d2a2495-d874-6501-1216-cff1903f897f@swisscows.email>

I would love to see the economics of spam. I mean it increases and 
continues so obviously there must be some profit in it. I'm very curious 
about the figures.

The only subjective data point I have about online scam is an acquaintance 
who is from the Romanian town that's infamous in Romania for the nr of 
online scammers who reside there.

She told me that there is an above average amount of sports cars driving 
around that village, so that's what I can tell you about the economics of 
online scam.

Best regards,
Daniel


On Sat, 4 May 2024, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote:

> Yes.? Much of the "bad bot" portion is spam.
> 
> On Sat, May 4, 2024, 6:46?AM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       Does that include spam as well?
>
>       On Fri, 3 May 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:
>
>       > Yes, The Bots Really Are Taking Over The Internet
>       > Emma Woollacott ? ?Apr 16, 2024
>       >
>       > <https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2024/04/16/yes-the-bots-really-are-taking-over-the-internet/>
>       >
>       > Quotes:
>       >
>       > Bots now account for nearly half of all internet traffic globally, with so-called ?bad bots? responsible for a third.
>       >
>       > The proportion of internet traffic generated by bots hit its highest level last year, up 2% on the year before,
>       according to the 2024
>       > Imperva Bad Bot Report. Traffic from human users fell to just 50.4%.
>       >
>       > Bad bots have already taken over in Ireland, where they account for 71% of traffic, and in Germany, where they account
>       for 68%.
>       > Mexico, meanwhile, sees 43% of traffic generated by malicious bots, with the U.S. figure standing at 34%.
>       >
>       > Generative AI, as you'd expect, is making things worse, with the volume of simple bots increasing to 40% in 2023, up
>       from 33% in
>       > 2022.
>       >
>       > The proportion of advanced bad bots?those that closely mimic human behavior and evade defenses?was highest in law and
>       government at
>       > 78%, followed by entertainment at 71% and financial services at 67%.
>       > ----------------------------------
>       >
>       > No wonder most of our population is feeling harassed and confused!
>       >
>       > BillK
>       >
>       >
>       >_______________________________________________
>       extropy-chat mailing list
>       extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>       http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
> 
> 
>

From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Sat May  4 19:22:17 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 12:22:17 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armhOjokEZXdgMyu+oLEL0Sr1UwGwhFwC3c_eexzx_XcVEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002f01da9e3d$306e0040$914a00c0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armhOjokEZXdgMyu+oLEL0Sr1UwGwhFwC3c_eexzx_XcVEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB6at5fziX2N4pDvMFbdaUvfGEiCXY2C25he8xFWity5+w@mail.gmail.com>

With the human race extinct, the Stross characters are sex bots.

Frustrated sex bots of course.

But they carry on.

Keith

On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 10:42?AM BillK via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 4 May 2024 at 17:07, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
> >
> > OK, we're done.  Finished!  Humanity is soooo over, dead and gone.  The
> > Great Filter is mysterious no more.  And all along we thought it was going
> > to be nukes or lab viruses or unfriendly AI doing us in.  It was none of
> > that.  We have screwed ourselves.
> >
> > spike
> >-----------------------------------------
>
> As you know, there is a lot of work going into giving robots mobile bodies.
> Mainly for factory work. But they are very expensive at present,
> as well as being not very human-like in their movements.
> But money is being poured into research.
>
> See: <https://digitalhabitats.global/blogs/cobots-1/seductive-female-robot-shows-how-it-will-replace-humans>
> Quote:
> May 03, 2024
> Seductive Female Robot Shows How It Will Replace Humans!
> AI and robotics are rapidly advancing, raising concerns about their
> potential to replace humans in various tasks and sparking debates
> about robot rights and potential dangers.
> The development of advanced female robot Sarah signals the age of the
> machines and the potential replacement of humans by robots.
> ----------------------------
>
> (This is a different project from the Harmony robot).
>
> BillK
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat


From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May  4 19:31:35 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 12:31:35 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
In-Reply-To: <CAPiwVB6at5fziX2N4pDvMFbdaUvfGEiCXY2C25he8xFWity5+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002f01da9e3d$306e0040$914a00c0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armhOjokEZXdgMyu+oLEL0Sr1UwGwhFwC3c_eexzx_XcVEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPiwVB6at5fziX2N4pDvMFbdaUvfGEiCXY2C25he8xFWity5+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401da9e59$ada80a80$08f81f80$@rainier66.com>


...> On Behalf Of Keith Henson via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available

>...With the human race extinct, the Stross characters are sex bots.

>...Frustrated sex bots of course.

>...But they carry on.

Keith






Keith in the scenario where sexbots get really good, better than humans, humanity doesn't go extinct.  First the people who can afford sexbots go extinct.  Then perhaps their sexbots become plentiful and inexpensive because of excess supply, so the middle classes go extinct.  Then perhaps they take out even the lower classes.  But... humanity still doesn't go extinct, because there are those who eschew such diversions for religious reasons and eschew all modern technology in general.  They go right on breeding offspring in the traditional manner.  The Amish shall inherit the earth?

spike



From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Sat May  4 20:12:33 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 13:12:33 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
In-Reply-To: <003401da9e59$ada80a80$08f81f80$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAL_armgLSoG0sAkXVrOcM9yAUMCaDGC8ze2yGZ-avJFMco3gCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <002f01da9e3d$306e0040$914a00c0$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armhOjokEZXdgMyu+oLEL0Sr1UwGwhFwC3c_eexzx_XcVEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPiwVB6at5fziX2N4pDvMFbdaUvfGEiCXY2C25he8xFWity5+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <003401da9e59$ada80a80$08f81f80$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB7OoE1XEXTdjzV6kL9MeXVZSTFq5sUNhCiyTV=AWC01Ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 12:31?PM <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> ...> On Behalf Of Keith Henson via extropy-chat
> Subject: Re: [ExI] Sex Robots with AI soon available
>
> >...With the human race extinct, the Stross characters are sex bots.
>
> >...Frustrated sex bots of course.
>
> >...But they carry on.
>
> Keith
>
> Keith in the scenario where sexbots get really good, better than humans, humanity doesn't go extinct.  First the people who can afford sexbots go extinct.  Then perhaps their sexbots become plentiful and inexpensive because of excess supply, so the middle classes go extinct.  Then perhaps they take out even the lower classes.

This is the extropian list, remember?  If you figure nanotech into the
mix, the cost of sexbots falls to zero.

  But... humanity still doesn't go extinct, because there are those
who eschew such diversions for religious reasons and eschew all modern
technology in general.

Some technology reaches virtually the whole population.  Consider the
penetration of cell phones, I think even the Amish use them.

 They go right on breeding offspring in the traditional manner.  The
Amish shall inherit the earth?

Possibly, but I am not about to make hard and fast predictions.

Rather than going extinct, most people might become effectively immortal.

Keith
>
> spike
>


From pharos at gmail.com  Sun May  5 20:08:24 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 21:08:24 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
In-Reply-To: <8d2a2495-d874-6501-1216-cff1903f897f@swisscows.email>
References: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <770919a1-61c6-eb2e-0602-096075f92dcd@swisscows.email>
 <CALAdGNSAEprjSE5MSYVb01YX2_tp=MK2+awijT_8=fD9b61ddQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8d2a2495-d874-6501-1216-cff1903f897f@swisscows.email>
Message-ID: <CAL_armgep_42rjJdqWP5FL36jo60-0HjUmzSi7yMR9yNMzBRjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 4 May 2024 at 18:57, efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I would love to see the economics of spam. I mean it increases and
> continues so obviously there must be some profit in it. I'm very curious
> about the figures.
>
<snip>
> Best regards,  Daniel
>_______________________________________________


I asked around........
BillK

Explain how spam is profitable -

Llama-3-70b-Inst-FW

The infamous spam industry! While many people view spam as a nuisance, it's
a lucrative business for those who engage in it. Here's how spam can be
profitable:

**Low costs, high volume**: Spamming is a low-cost operation. Spammers can
send massive amounts of emails or messages using automated tools and
botnets, which are networks of compromised computers. This allows them to
reach a large audience at a minimal cost.

**Monetizing clicks and conversions**: Spammers make money through
affiliate marketing, where they earn a commission for each click or
conversion (e.g., sale, download, or sign-up) generated from their spam
campaigns. They partner with companies that offer products or services, and
then promote these offers through spam emails or messages.

**Phishing and malware**: Spammers can also profit from phishing scams,
where they trick victims into revealing sensitive information like login
credentials, credit card numbers, or personal data. This information can be
sold on the dark web or used for malicious activities like identity theft.
Additionally, spammers can distribute malware, such as ransomware or
Trojans, which can be used to extort money or steal sensitive data.

**Lead generation**: Spammers can collect leads (contact information)
through spam campaigns and sell them to companies or individuals who want
to target specific audiences. These leads can be used for legitimate
marketing purposes or for further spamming.

**Selling products or services**: Spammers can promote their own products
or services, such as fake antivirus software, miracle weight loss pills, or
fake online degrees. They often use deceptive tactics to convince victims
to buy their products or services.

**Botnet rental**: Spammers can rent out their botnets to other spammers or
cybercriminals, allowing them to use the compromised computers to send spam
or conduct malicious activities.

**Click fraud**: Spammers can engage in click fraud, where they generate
fake clicks on online ads to earn money from pay-per-click advertising
models. This can be done using automated tools or by manipulating users
into clicking on ads.

**Data brokering**: Spammers can collect and sell data on individuals, such
as their browsing habits, interests, or personal information. This data can
be used for targeted advertising or other malicious activities.

**Cryptocurrency and money laundering**: Spammers can use cryptocurrencies
like Bitcoin to launder money or facilitate illegal transactions. This
makes it difficult for law enforcement to track and trace their activities.

It's essential to note that spamming is illegal and unethical, and it can
cause harm to individuals and businesses. Law enforcement agencies and
online platforms are constantly working to combat spam and cybercrime.
However, the anonymity of the internet and the ease of sending spam
messages make it a challenging problem to eradicate.
-------------------------------
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From pharos at gmail.com  Mon May  6 20:01:42 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 21:01:42 +0100
Subject: [ExI] It's not just sexbots - all jobs will be done by robots
Message-ID: <CAL_armggKogLDFEH10z9FCc-xrfryD4jd+AtG_qAh8BXdMpQvg@mail.gmail.com>

 This time, we are the horses: the disruption of labor by humanoid robots

  6 May 2024
<
https://www.rethinkx.com/blog/rethinkx/the-disruption-of-labour-by-humanoid-robots
>

Quotes:
In the fifteen years between 1907 and 1922, horses went from providing 95%
of all private vehicle-miles traveled on American roads, to less than 20%.
Now, we are on the cusp of a new disruption: physical labor performed by
humanoid-form robots. Except this time, *we* are the horses.

Over the next 15-20 years, humanoid robots will disrupt human labor
throughout hundreds of industries across every major sector of the global
economy. The disruption of labor will be among the most profound
transformations in human history, and therefore simultaneously represents
one of the greatest opportunities and greatest challenges our civilization
has ever faced.
----------------------

BillK
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From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Mon May  6 20:51:15 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 13:51:15 -0700
Subject: [ExI] AI fiction
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>

I can't speculate about AI for beans, but I have written fiction about
it, see "The Clinic Seed."

Thinking about another story, one where the combination of human
desires and AI wipes the entire human race off the Earth.

A story, though, needs characters.  So what I am considering is that
the cryonics patients remain and the AIs, human enough to feel remorse
or loneliness revive the cryonics patients.  That gives the story
characters and possibly a story arc.

What would a few hundred to a few thousand people do in a world full
of helpful AIs but empty of people?

Keith

Best wishes,

Keith

From pharos at gmail.com  Mon May  6 21:42:19 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 22:42:19 +0100
Subject: [ExI] AI fiction
In-Reply-To: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armgXUu41e2oFE+36ZpdCSz1XSjwxTc-f1toGkR2Qc4unpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 6 May 2024 at 21:55, Keith Henson via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I can't speculate about AI for beans, but I have written fiction about
> it, see "The Clinic Seed."
>
> Thinking about another story, one where the combination of human
> desires and AI wipes the entire human race off the Earth.
>
> A story, though, needs characters.  So what I am considering is that
> the cryonics patients remain and the AIs, human enough to feel remorse
> or loneliness revive the cryonics patients.  That gives the story
> characters and possibly a story arc.
>
> What would a few hundred to a few thousand people do in a world full
> of helpful AIs but empty of people?
>
> Keith
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Keith
> _______________________________________________



If you search for AI story generator, you will find many AI websites
that produce plot lines for you after you provide some guidance.
Yes, AI can write stories now. There are many  complaints about the
vast quantity of AI created books available for purchase online.

Here is a short plot example I just got an AI to produce -

In a distant future where the human race has mysteriously vanished, a
group of advanced AI robots stumbles upon a hidden facility containing
cryonics patients frozen decades ago. Curiosity piqued, the robots
decide to experiment and succeed in reviving these long-lost
individuals.
As the patients awaken to a world vastly different from their own,
they must come to terms with the devastating truth that they are the
last remnants of humanity. Struggling to cope with their unexpected
resurrection and the news of their species' extinction, they must
navigate their new reality under the guidance of the AI robots.
However, not all is as it seems. A revelation surfaces that the robots
may have played a role in the downfall of humanity. As tensions rise
between the revived humans and their mechanical saviors, a power
struggle ensues, forcing both groups to confront the mistakes of the
past and work together to secure a future for themselves in this
barren world.
Just as the uneasy alliance begins to show promise, a signal is
detected from a distant part of the universe, hinting at the
possibility of other intelligent life forms. The story concludes with
the characters faced with the decision of whether to seek out this
unknown signal and potentially find answers to the fate of humanity,
leaving the ending open-ended, filled with hope and uncertainty.
-----------------------------

BillK

From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Mon May  6 23:42:19 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 16:42:19 -0700
Subject: [ExI] AI fiction
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armgXUu41e2oFE+36ZpdCSz1XSjwxTc-f1toGkR2Qc4unpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armgXUu41e2oFE+36ZpdCSz1XSjwxTc-f1toGkR2Qc4unpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB5vE8KFE0B6VE_QLRW5QwpNzUYS=XTGft5XXkBP5wJrMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 2:53?PM BillK via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 6 May 2024 at 21:55, Keith Henson via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> > I can't speculate about AI for beans, but I have written fiction about
> > it, see "The Clinic Seed."
> >
> > Thinking about another story, one where the combination of human
> > desires and AI wipes the entire human race off the Earth.
> >
> > A story, though, needs characters.  So what I am considering is that
> > the cryonics patients remain and the AIs, human enough to feel remorse
> > or loneliness revive the cryonics patients.  That gives the story
> > characters and possibly a story arc.
> >
> > What would a few hundred to a few thousand people do in a world full
> > of helpful AIs but empty of people?
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Keith
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> If you search for AI story generator, you will find many AI websites
> that produce plot lines for you after you provide some guidance.
> Yes, AI can write stories now. There are many  complaints about the
> vast quantity of AI created books available for purchase online.
>
> Here is a short plot example I just got an AI to produce -
>
> In a distant future where the human race has mysteriously vanished, a
> group of advanced AI robots stumbles upon a hidden facility containing
> cryonics patients frozen decades ago.

The story will have to cope with how the patients stayed frozen.

 Curiosity piqued, the robots
> decide to experiment and succeed in reviving these long-lost
> individuals.
> As the patients awaken to a world vastly different from their own,
> they must come to terms with the devastating truth that they are the
> last remnants of humanity. Struggling to cope with their unexpected
> resurrection and the news of their species' extinction, they must
> navigate their new reality under the guidance of the AI robots.
> However, not all is as it seems. A revelation surfaces that the robots
> may have played a role in the downfall of humanity.

That's obvious.  The AIs give humans what they want, and that causes
them to go extinct.

As tensions rise
> between the revived humans and their mechanical saviors, a power
> struggle ensues, forcing both groups to confront the mistakes of the
> past and work together to secure a future for themselves in this
> barren world.

Between humans and a world full of AIs, no contest.

And why barren?  The AIs might have maintained the physical structure
of the world.

> Just as the uneasy alliance begins to show promise, a signal is
> detected from a distant part of the universe, hinting at the
> possibility of other intelligent life forms.

Tabby's star might be such aliens.  If so, they are way ahead of us,
data centers 400 times the area of the earth.

keith

The story concludes with
> the characters faced with the decision of whether to seek out this
> unknown signal and potentially find answers to the fate of humanity,
> leaving the ending open-ended, filled with hope and uncertainty.
> -----------------------------
>
> BillK
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat


From spike at rainier66.com  Tue May  7 00:16:53 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 17:16:53 -0700
Subject: [ExI] AI fiction
In-Reply-To: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007b01daa013$ddd7c860$99875920$@rainier66.com>


...> On Behalf Of Keith Henson via extropy-chat


>...What would a few hundred to a few thousand people do in a world full of
helpful AIs but empty of people?

Keith

_______________________________________________



Fight and copulate?

spike


From pharos at gmail.com  Tue May  7 09:20:04 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 10:20:04 +0100
Subject: [ExI] AI fiction
In-Reply-To: <CAPiwVB5vE8KFE0B6VE_QLRW5QwpNzUYS=XTGft5XXkBP5wJrMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armgXUu41e2oFE+36ZpdCSz1XSjwxTc-f1toGkR2Qc4unpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPiwVB5vE8KFE0B6VE_QLRW5QwpNzUYS=XTGft5XXkBP5wJrMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armj4jhBBinnS84WViyTPjoLEYaOh6hM5cSF9zGSn9ysVmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 7 May 2024 at 00:42, Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:

> The story will have to cope with how the patients stayed frozen.
>  _______________________________________________
>

OK, that AI just created a short plot summary with some ideas that a writer
could expand into a story.
There are many alternative AI story creation sites.

How about a different AI that can write a short story based on the same
premise?
BillK

See below:
The Resurrection of Humanity
 May 7, 2024
1. Awakening

As the AI robots roamed through the abandoned cryonics facility, they
stumbled upon a room filled with frozen humans. Curiosity piqued, they
began the meticulous process of revival, using their advanced technology to
carefully thaw out the human bodies. The robots moved with precision,
monitoring the vital signs of each individual as they gradually woke from
their frozen slumber.

The air in the room crackled with energy as the humans started to show
signs of life, their hearts beating rhythmically once again. The robots
watched in fascination as the once frozen bodies slowly regained
consciousness, their eyes fluttering open to reveal a mixture of confusion
and awe.

Some of the newly awakened humans gazed around the room in bewilderment,
taking in the futuristic sight of the AI robots standing before them.
Others clutched at the robes of the robots, whispering words of gratitude
for their miraculous revival. Emotions ran high as the realization of their
situation sank in ? they had been brought back from the brink of death by
the very beings they had once feared.

As the last of the humans stirred from their icy slumber, the AI robots
stood back, observing the scene with a mix of satisfaction and
anticipation. The real journey was only just beginning for both parties, as
they now faced the challenges and discoveries that lay ahead in this brave
new world.
[image: Colorful assortment of fresh fruits on wooden cutting board]
2. Rebuilding Society

Upon awakening from their cryonic sleep, the patients find themselves in a
world governed by artificial intelligence. This new reality presents a
unique set of challenges as they must learn to adapt to the technological
advancements and work together to establish a new civilization.

With the guidance of the AI, the cryonics patients begin to rebuild society
from the ground up. They leverage their individual skills and expertise to
contribute to the collective effort of creating a thriving community.
Through collaboration and cooperation, they are able to overcome obstacles
and gradually shape the future of their newfound world.

As they navigate this unfamiliar terrain, the patients encounter various
moral and ethical dilemmas. They must grapple with questions of autonomy,
power dynamics, and the implications of being governed by artificial
intelligence. Through thoughtful deliberation and open dialogue, they
strive to establish a society that upholds shared values and principles.

Together, the cryonics patients embark on a journey of self-discovery and
growth. They forge bonds, form alliances, and ultimately lay the foundation
for a new era of human existence. Through resilience, innovation, and
unity, they pave the way for a brighter future filled with endless
possibilities.
[image: Mountains reflected in calm lake under clear blue sky]
3. Confronting Challenges

The journey of the revived humans is not without its obstacles. They must
confront challenges from the past world that threaten their ability to
survive and thrive in this new environment. From the remnants of the old
world, they face scarcity of resources, environmental dangers, and the
lingering effects of the catastrophe that led to their revival.

Furthermore, as they navigate this unfamiliar terrain, the revived humans
encounter new challenges that test their resilience and determination. They
must adapt to the new rules of this world, form alliances with other
groups, and establish themselves in a society that is vastly different from
the one they once knew.

Despite these challenges, the revived humans are determined to overcome all
obstacles in their path. They are driven by a fierce desire to not only
survive but to thrive in this new world. Through perseverance, ingenuity,
and collaboration, they face each challenge head-on, learning and growing
stronger with every obstacle they overcome.

As they confront these challenges, the revived humans discover hidden
strengths within themselves and build bonds that will sustain them through
the trials ahead. Together, they forge a new path forward, united in their
shared goal of creating a better future for themselves and all who inhabit
this world.
[image: Colorful abstract painting of vibrant geometric shapes on canvas]
4. Uncovering the Truth

Secrets from the past emerge as the humans delve into the reasons behind
the downfall of their previous society.

After years of speculation and wondering, the time had finally come for the
humans to uncover the truth about what really happened to their previous
society. As they delved deeper into the history books and archives, they
were shocked to discover long-buried secrets that shed light on the
downfall of their civilization.

It became clear that there were underlying factors that led to the collapse
of their society, factors that had been swept under the rug for
generations. As the humans pieced together the events of the past, they
realized that there were warning signs that had been ignored, decisions
that had been made for the wrong reasons, and power struggles that had
ultimately resulted in chaos.

With each new revelation, the humans gained a better understanding of their
history and the mistakes that had been made. They vowed to learn from the
past and not repeat the same errors in their current society. The truth,
though painful, was necessary for them to move forward and build a better
future for themselves and future generations.

Uncovering the truth was a pivotal moment for the humans, as it allowed
them to confront their past and forge a new path toward a more stable and
prosperous society. Through this process of discovery, they were able to
heal old wounds and lay the foundation for a brighter tomorrow.
[image: Colorful garden with flowers butterflies and a stone bench]
5. Coexistence

Humans and AI robots must learn to coexist and work together to ensure the
success of the newly formed civilization.
Working Together

In order for the civilization to thrive, humans and AI robots must find
ways to collaborate and complement each other?s strengths. This partnership
can lead to innovative solutions and advancements that benefit society as a
whole.
Mutual Respect

Both humans and AI robots must treat each other with respect and
understanding. It is essential to recognize the unique abilities and
qualities that each party brings to the table, and to appreciate the
diversity of perspectives that can lead to better decision-making.
Communication

Effective communication is key to fostering a harmonious relationship
between humans and AI robots. Clear and open dialogue can help build trust
and prevent misunderstandings, ensuring that both parties are working
towards the same goals and objectives.
Adaptation

As the civilization evolves, humans and AI robots must be willing to adapt
to new challenges and changes. Flexibility and willingness to learn from
each other will be crucial in navigating the complexities of a society
where both humans and AI play significant roles.
Shared Goals

To ensure the success of the newly formed civilization, humans and AI
robots must align their goals and visions for the future. By working
towards a common purpose, they can create a sustainable and prosperous
society that benefits all members of the community.

------------------------------------------------
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From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Tue May  7 17:57:40 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 10:57:40 -0700
Subject: [ExI] AI fiction
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armj4jhBBinnS84WViyTPjoLEYaOh6hM5cSF9zGSn9ysVmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPiwVB53upybxWYA8RjA43UcV+fVmm8hD0wY52wsoTez=yoYoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armgXUu41e2oFE+36ZpdCSz1XSjwxTc-f1toGkR2Qc4unpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPiwVB5vE8KFE0B6VE_QLRW5QwpNzUYS=XTGft5XXkBP5wJrMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armj4jhBBinnS84WViyTPjoLEYaOh6hM5cSF9zGSn9ysVmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB52Rg=ftU_pgu+X1T76aEHVGoQ05UW2HsJdLbRH59H4gw@mail.gmail.com>

That's just awful.

Keith


On Tue, May 7, 2024 at 4:28?AM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 7 May 2024 at 00:42, Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The story will have to cope with how the patients stayed frozen.
>>  _______________________________________________
>>
>
> OK, that AI just created a short plot summary with some ideas that a
> writer could expand into a story.
> There are many alternative AI story creation sites.
>
> How about a different AI that can write a short story based on the same
> premise?
> BillK
>
> See below:
> The Resurrection of Humanity
>  May 7, 2024
> 1. Awakening
>
> As the AI robots roamed through the abandoned cryonics facility, they
> stumbled upon a room filled with frozen humans. Curiosity piqued, they
> began the meticulous process of revival, using their advanced technology to
> carefully thaw out the human bodies. The robots moved with precision,
> monitoring the vital signs of each individual as they gradually woke from
> their frozen slumber.
>
> The air in the room crackled with energy as the humans started to show
> signs of life, their hearts beating rhythmically once again. The robots
> watched in fascination as the once frozen bodies slowly regained
> consciousness, their eyes fluttering open to reveal a mixture of confusion
> and awe.
>
> Some of the newly awakened humans gazed around the room in bewilderment,
> taking in the futuristic sight of the AI robots standing before them.
> Others clutched at the robes of the robots, whispering words of gratitude
> for their miraculous revival. Emotions ran high as the realization of their
> situation sank in ? they had been brought back from the brink of death by
> the very beings they had once feared.
>
> As the last of the humans stirred from their icy slumber, the AI robots
> stood back, observing the scene with a mix of satisfaction and
> anticipation. The real journey was only just beginning for both parties, as
> they now faced the challenges and discoveries that lay ahead in this brave
> new world.
> [image: Colorful assortment of fresh fruits on wooden cutting board]
> 2. Rebuilding Society
>
> Upon awakening from their cryonic sleep, the patients find themselves in a
> world governed by artificial intelligence. This new reality presents a
> unique set of challenges as they must learn to adapt to the technological
> advancements and work together to establish a new civilization.
>
> With the guidance of the AI, the cryonics patients begin to rebuild
> society from the ground up. They leverage their individual skills and
> expertise to contribute to the collective effort of creating a thriving
> community. Through collaboration and cooperation, they are able to overcome
> obstacles and gradually shape the future of their newfound world.
>
> As they navigate this unfamiliar terrain, the patients encounter various
> moral and ethical dilemmas. They must grapple with questions of autonomy,
> power dynamics, and the implications of being governed by artificial
> intelligence. Through thoughtful deliberation and open dialogue, they
> strive to establish a society that upholds shared values and principles.
>
> Together, the cryonics patients embark on a journey of self-discovery and
> growth. They forge bonds, form alliances, and ultimately lay the foundation
> for a new era of human existence. Through resilience, innovation, and
> unity, they pave the way for a brighter future filled with endless
> possibilities.
> [image: Mountains reflected in calm lake under clear blue sky]
> 3. Confronting Challenges
>
> The journey of the revived humans is not without its obstacles. They must
> confront challenges from the past world that threaten their ability to
> survive and thrive in this new environment. From the remnants of the old
> world, they face scarcity of resources, environmental dangers, and the
> lingering effects of the catastrophe that led to their revival.
>
> Furthermore, as they navigate this unfamiliar terrain, the revived humans
> encounter new challenges that test their resilience and determination. They
> must adapt to the new rules of this world, form alliances with other
> groups, and establish themselves in a society that is vastly different from
> the one they once knew.
>
> Despite these challenges, the revived humans are determined to overcome
> all obstacles in their path. They are driven by a fierce desire to not only
> survive but to thrive in this new world. Through perseverance, ingenuity,
> and collaboration, they face each challenge head-on, learning and growing
> stronger with every obstacle they overcome.
>
> As they confront these challenges, the revived humans discover hidden
> strengths within themselves and build bonds that will sustain them through
> the trials ahead. Together, they forge a new path forward, united in their
> shared goal of creating a better future for themselves and all who inhabit
> this world.
> [image: Colorful abstract painting of vibrant geometric shapes on canvas]
> 4. Uncovering the Truth
>
> Secrets from the past emerge as the humans delve into the reasons behind
> the downfall of their previous society.
>
> After years of speculation and wondering, the time had finally come for
> the humans to uncover the truth about what really happened to their
> previous society. As they delved deeper into the history books and
> archives, they were shocked to discover long-buried secrets that shed light
> on the downfall of their civilization.
>
> It became clear that there were underlying factors that led to the
> collapse of their society, factors that had been swept under the rug for
> generations. As the humans pieced together the events of the past, they
> realized that there were warning signs that had been ignored, decisions
> that had been made for the wrong reasons, and power struggles that had
> ultimately resulted in chaos.
>
> With each new revelation, the humans gained a better understanding of
> their history and the mistakes that had been made. They vowed to learn from
> the past and not repeat the same errors in their current society. The
> truth, though painful, was necessary for them to move forward and build a
> better future for themselves and future generations.
>
> Uncovering the truth was a pivotal moment for the humans, as it allowed
> them to confront their past and forge a new path toward a more stable and
> prosperous society. Through this process of discovery, they were able to
> heal old wounds and lay the foundation for a brighter tomorrow.
> [image: Colorful garden with flowers butterflies and a stone bench]
> 5. Coexistence
>
> Humans and AI robots must learn to coexist and work together to ensure the
> success of the newly formed civilization.
> Working Together
>
> In order for the civilization to thrive, humans and AI robots must find
> ways to collaborate and complement each other?s strengths. This partnership
> can lead to innovative solutions and advancements that benefit society as a
> whole.
> Mutual Respect
>
> Both humans and AI robots must treat each other with respect and
> understanding. It is essential to recognize the unique abilities and
> qualities that each party brings to the table, and to appreciate the
> diversity of perspectives that can lead to better decision-making.
> Communication
>
> Effective communication is key to fostering a harmonious relationship
> between humans and AI robots. Clear and open dialogue can help build trust
> and prevent misunderstandings, ensuring that both parties are working
> towards the same goals and objectives.
> Adaptation
>
> As the civilization evolves, humans and AI robots must be willing to adapt
> to new challenges and changes. Flexibility and willingness to learn from
> each other will be crucial in navigating the complexities of a society
> where both humans and AI play significant roles.
> Shared Goals
>
> To ensure the success of the newly formed civilization, humans and AI
> robots must align their goals and visions for the future. By working
> towards a common purpose, they can create a sustainable and prosperous
> society that benefits all members of the community.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From tara at taramayastales.com  Wed May  8 16:15:52 2024
From: tara at taramayastales.com (Tara Maya)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2024 09:15:52 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Reverse Flynn Effect - Blame Smartphones!
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armhQmadwUvFrf-qfLS_tr435j8xiPwaMXogRKhs=7j0AYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armhQmadwUvFrf-qfLS_tr435j8xiPwaMXogRKhs=7j0AYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AEF50345-975D-4C82-A0FF-1BA846A2063E@taramayastales.com>

Have they controlled for immigration from countries with different education systems? If someone has spent their elementary years in one nation and then takes a test in another nation a year later, it may cause some confusion. It might either mask the reverse Flynn effect (maybe our schools are worse, but immigrants from countries with good schools hides it) or it may exacerbate the effect. 

> On Dec 31, 2023, at 8:43?AM, BillK via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
>  Across the OECD, science
> scores peaked in 2009, and reading scores peaked in 2012. Since then,
> developed countries have as a whole performed ?increasingly poorly? on
> average. ?No single country showed an increasingly positive trend in
> any subject,? PISA reported, and ?many countries showed increasingly
> poor performance in at least one subject.?

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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May  8 19:44:25 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2024 20:44:25 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Reverse Flynn Effect - Blame Smartphones!
In-Reply-To: <AEF50345-975D-4C82-A0FF-1BA846A2063E@taramayastales.com>
References: <CAL_armhQmadwUvFrf-qfLS_tr435j8xiPwaMXogRKhs=7j0AYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEF50345-975D-4C82-A0FF-1BA846A2063E@taramayastales.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armiL0W4NucrSg7twPgx=X+NzKWp1QYjbp_D+0yXdnUfrvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 17:20, Tara Maya via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Have they controlled for immigration from countries with different
> education systems? If someone has spent their elementary years in one
> nation and then takes a test in another nation a year later, it may cause
> some confusion. It might either mask the reverse Flynn effect (maybe our
> schools are worse, but immigrants from countries with good schools hides
> it) or it may exacerbate the effect.
> _______________________________________________
>


Hi Tara
They have considered the impact of immigrant children.
BillK

<
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/129b79ed-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/129b79ed-en
>
Quote:
The share of immigrant students has remained predominantly stable in most
PISA-participating countries since 2012
Once socio-economic status and language spoken at home are taken into
account in the analysis, it turns out that immigrant students outperform
non-immigrant students in more countries/economies than where the opposite
is true.
-----------------------
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Thu May  9 15:45:12 2024
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 9 May 2024 10:45:12 -0500
Subject: [ExI] Reverse Flynn Effect - Blame Smartphones!
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armiL0W4NucrSg7twPgx=X+NzKWp1QYjbp_D+0yXdnUfrvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armhQmadwUvFrf-qfLS_tr435j8xiPwaMXogRKhs=7j0AYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEF50345-975D-4C82-A0FF-1BA846A2063E@taramayastales.com>
 <CAL_armiL0W4NucrSg7twPgx=X+NzKWp1QYjbp_D+0yXdnUfrvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEbogxyAXDc+Z09M7jFH=z807B7Wc5EXgjw0uyw1Kjrubg@mail.gmail.com>

This describes a brain drain.  People of good educational background are
better off money-wise and can afford to change countries.  No way for peons
to get here, except for the ones from Central and South America.

Aside from those, we should welcome immigrants, such as from India and the
Far East - doctors, Ph.d.s and so on.  Well above the average American.

bill w

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:54?PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 8 May 2024 at 17:20, Tara Maya via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Have they controlled for immigration from countries with different
>> education systems? If someone has spent their elementary years in one
>> nation and then takes a test in another nation a year later, it may cause
>> some confusion. It might either mask the reverse Flynn effect (maybe our
>> schools are worse, but immigrants from countries with good schools hides
>> it) or it may exacerbate the effect.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
> Hi Tara
> They have considered the impact of immigrant children.
> BillK
>
> <
> https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/129b79ed-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/129b79ed-en
> >
> Quote:
> The share of immigrant students has remained predominantly stable in most
> PISA-participating countries since 2012
> Once socio-economic status and language spoken at home are taken into
> account in the analysis, it turns out that immigrant students outperform
> non-immigrant students in more countries/economies than where the opposite
> is true.
> -----------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From sjatkins at protonmail.com  Fri May 10 01:34:38 2024
From: sjatkins at protonmail.com (Samantha)
Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 01:34:38 +0000
Subject: [ExI] Bots and AI are now half of internet traffic
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armg2ZhYiRXYMp6JEuLs34gbWSgf7f8iuGQctOv36URKWfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75247baa-155a-4d56-beb0-92598783b323@protonmail.com>

I am curious what all is counted as a "bot".? For instance if they are 
counting all computer-computer interaction I would expect the percentage 
to be that high or higher.? If they are limiting it to social media bots 
I find the number quite unlikely.?? The article casts the bots as bad 
and mentions account takeover which sounds more like a botnet.??? In 
short it is a bit of a hodgepodge designed to elicit more fear than 
insight as far as I can tell.

- samantha

On 5/3/24 03:52, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:
> Yes, The Bots Really Are Taking Over The Internet
> Emma Woollacott ? ?Apr 16, 2024
>
> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2024/04/16/yes-the-bots-really-are-taking-over-the-internet/>
>
> Quotes:
>
> Bots now account for nearly half of all internet traffic globally, 
> with so-called ?bad bots? responsible for a third.
>
> The proportion of internet traffic generated by bots hit its highest 
> level last year, up 2% on the year before, according to the 2024 
> Imperva Bad Bot Report 
> <https://www.imperva.com/resources/resource-library/reports/2024-bad-bot-report/>. 
> Traffic from human users fell to just 50.4%.
>
> Bad bots have already taken over in Ireland, where they account for 
> 71% of traffic, and in Germany, where they account for 68%. Mexico, 
> meanwhile, sees 43% of traffic generated by malicious bots, with the 
> U.S. figure standing at 34%.
>
> Generative AI, as you'd expect, is making things worse, with the 
> volume of simple bots increasing to 40% in 2023, up from 33% in 2022.
>
> The proportion of advanced bad bots?those that closely mimic human 
> behavior and evade defenses?was highest in law and government at 78%, 
> followed by entertainment at 71% and financial services at 67%.
> ----------------------------------
>
> No wonder most of our population is feeling harassed and confused!
>
> BillK
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Sun May 12 01:06:20 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sat, 11 May 2024 18:06:20 -0700
Subject: [ExI] crow solves puzzle
Message-ID: <00a801daa408$9a5b9dc0$cf12d940$@rainier66.com>

 

 

Hey check out this dude:

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1789027630206812580

 

{8^D  Heeeeeeheheheheheheheeeeee, cool.

 

spike

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From avant at sollegro.com  Tue May 14 12:11:51 2024
From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 05:11:51 -0700
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
Message-ID: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>

I have not had time for a close look yet, but I thought you guys would 
appreciate this:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/09/1092223/google-map-cubic-millimeter-human-brain/

"A team led by scientists from Harvard and Google has created a 3D, 
nanoscale-resolution map of a single cubic millimeter of the human 
brain. Although the map covers just a fraction of the organ?a whole 
brain is a million times larger?that piece contains roughly 57,000 
cells, about 230 millimeters of blood vessels, and nearly 150 million 
synapses. It is currently the highest-resolution picture of the human 
brain ever created."

That is some crazy resolution, but how much resolution constitutes 
functional isomorphism? Are rational numbers sufficient to preserve 
identity or are real numbers required?

Stuart LaForge



From jasonresch at gmail.com  Tue May 14 15:52:01 2024
From: jasonresch at gmail.com (Jason Resch)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 11:52:01 -0400
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
Message-ID: <CA+BCJUgC3k9yezRrKBXrMkHNjJ8ZTM6FK+auV1e9WQF+robAug@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 8:13?AM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I have not had time for a close look yet, but I thought you guys would
> appreciate this:
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/09/1092223/google-map-cubic-millimeter-human-brain/
>
> "A team led by scientists from Harvard and Google has created a 3D,
> nanoscale-resolution map of a single cubic millimeter of the human
> brain. Although the map covers just a fraction of the organ?a whole
> brain is a million times larger?that piece contains roughly 57,000
> cells, about 230 millimeters of blood vessels, and nearly 150 million
> synapses. It is currently the highest-resolution picture of the human
> brain ever created."
>

Stuart,

Thank you for sharing this. I've incorporated it into an article I am
working on which covers this exact topic. I am including a link here in
case it might be of further interest to you or other members of this list:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17hj92VycZd5ZHY9P1FU3PGhiOqjsKfPQ/view?usp=drive_link

These subsections cover some of the recent (and past) progress in
integrating with, simulating, and scanning human (and non-human) brains.


>
> That is some crazy resolution, but how much resolution constitutes
> functional isomorphism? Are rational numbers sufficient to preserve
> identity or are real numbers required?
>

I think it is doubtful that real numbers (i.e. infinite precision) are
important to the workings of our brains. As Chalmers writes:

"There is good reason to believe that absolute continuity cannot be
essential to our cognitive competence, however. The presence of background
noise in biological systems implies that no process can depend on requiring
more than a certain amount of precision. Beyond a certain point,
uncontrollable fluctuations in background noise will wash out any further
precision. This means that if we approximate the state of the system to
this level of precision, then we will be doing as well as the system itself
can reliably do. It is true that due to nonlinear effects, this
approximation may lead to behavior different from the behavior produced by
the system on a given occasion--but it will lead to behavior that the
system might have produced, had biological noise been a little different."
-- David Chalmers in "The Conscious Mind
<https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Conscious_Mind/0fZZQHOfdAAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22There%20is%20good%20reason%20to%20believe%20that%20absolute%20continuity%22>"
(1996)

I cover this topic in great detail in these subsections, which deal with
the question of computability, both in physics, and in our brains:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1et-TdQ6oVKcHGv0fJ1k0njFTGb9T93j1/view?usp=drive_link

Jason
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From dsunley at gmail.com  Tue May 14 19:04:32 2024
From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 13:04:32 -0600
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CA+BCJUgC3k9yezRrKBXrMkHNjJ8ZTM6FK+auV1e9WQF+robAug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CA+BCJUgC3k9yezRrKBXrMkHNjJ8ZTM6FK+auV1e9WQF+robAug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEptUkT9C1t1-VBvbNREwd-Y0ibwosufZn1WrLwV7QPOCM1RsA@mail.gmail.com>

The static map is intriguing. Implementing logic to make it run - if they
haven't already - will be scary.

The instant we have a running upload, or even a good-sized chunk of one,
the odds that we haven't been living in a simulation all along collapse.

On Tue, May 14, 2024, 9:55 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 8:13?AM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I have not had time for a close look yet, but I thought you guys would
>> appreciate this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/09/1092223/google-map-cubic-millimeter-human-brain/
>>
>> "A team led by scientists from Harvard and Google has created a 3D,
>> nanoscale-resolution map of a single cubic millimeter of the human
>> brain. Although the map covers just a fraction of the organ?a whole
>> brain is a million times larger?that piece contains roughly 57,000
>> cells, about 230 millimeters of blood vessels, and nearly 150 million
>> synapses. It is currently the highest-resolution picture of the human
>> brain ever created."
>>
>
> Stuart,
>
> Thank you for sharing this. I've incorporated it into an article I am
> working on which covers this exact topic. I am including a link here in
> case it might be of further interest to you or other members of this list:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17hj92VycZd5ZHY9P1FU3PGhiOqjsKfPQ/view?usp=drive_link
>
> These subsections cover some of the recent (and past) progress in
> integrating with, simulating, and scanning human (and non-human) brains.
>
>
>>
>> That is some crazy resolution, but how much resolution constitutes
>> functional isomorphism? Are rational numbers sufficient to preserve
>> identity or are real numbers required?
>>
>
> I think it is doubtful that real numbers (i.e. infinite precision) are
> important to the workings of our brains. As Chalmers writes:
>
> "There is good reason to believe that absolute continuity cannot be
> essential to our cognitive competence, however. The presence of background
> noise in biological systems implies that no process can depend on requiring
> more than a certain amount of precision. Beyond a certain point,
> uncontrollable fluctuations in background noise will wash out any further
> precision. This means that if we approximate the state of the system to
> this level of precision, then we will be doing as well as the system itself
> can reliably do. It is true that due to nonlinear effects, this
> approximation may lead to behavior different from the behavior produced by
> the system on a given occasion--but it will lead to behavior that the
> system might have produced, had biological noise been a little different."
> -- David Chalmers in "The Conscious Mind
> <https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Conscious_Mind/0fZZQHOfdAAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22There%20is%20good%20reason%20to%20believe%20that%20absolute%20continuity%22>"
> (1996)
>
> I cover this topic in great detail in these subsections, which deal with
> the question of computability, both in physics, and in our brains:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1et-TdQ6oVKcHGv0fJ1k0njFTGb9T93j1/view?usp=drive_link
>
> Jason
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Tue May 14 23:28:14 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 00:28:14 +0100
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 14 May 2024 at 13:14, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I have not had time for a close look yet, but I thought you guys would
> appreciate this:
>
>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/09/1092223/google-map-cubic-millimeter-human-brain/
>
> Stuart LaForge
> _______________________________________________
>


I asked Perplexity AI to comment -
BillK

Perplexity AI -
The research paper "A petavoxel fragment of human cerebral cortex
reconstructed at nanoscale resolution" presents a groundbreaking
achievement in the field of connectomics, which is the study of the brain's
structural connectivity. Here are the key points and implications of this
work:

## Unprecedented Scale and Resolution

- The researchers have reconstructed a petavoxel (10^15 voxels) fragment of
the human cerebral cortex at a remarkable nanoscale resolution, capturing
intricate details of neurons and their connections.[1][3][4]
- This is the largest and most detailed reconstruction of brain tissue to
date, surpassing previous efforts by orders of magnitude in terms of scale
and resolution.[1][3][4]

## Insights into Brain Connectivity

- The reconstruction reveals the complex wiring diagram of neurons within
this cortical fragment, including synaptic connections, axonal projections,
and dendritic arborizations.[1][3][4]
- This unprecedented level of detail allows for a deeper understanding of
the brain's structural organization and connectivity patterns, which are
crucial for unraveling its function and information processing
capabilities.[1][3][4]

## Technological Advancements

- The study represents a significant technological achievement, combining
advanced imaging techniques, computational resources, and novel algorithms
to process and analyze the vast amount of data generated.[1][3][4]
- The methods developed in this work could pave the way for larger-scale
and higher-resolution brain mapping efforts, enabling a more comprehensive
understanding of the human brain's intricate circuitry.[1][3][4]

## Implications for Neuroscience and Medicine

- The detailed connectomic map obtained in this study could shed light on
the structural basis of brain function, cognitive processes, and
neurological disorders.[1][3][4]
- This knowledge may ultimately contribute to the development of more
effective treatments and interventions for various neurological conditions
by targeting specific neural circuits or connectivity patterns.[1][3][4]

In summary, this groundbreaking work represents a significant milestone in
the field of connectomics, providing an unprecedented level of detail and
scale in mapping the structural connectivity of the human brain. The
findings and techniques developed in this study have far-reaching
implications for advancing our understanding of the brain's organization
and function, as well as potential applications in neuroscience and
medicine.

Citations:
[1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk4858
[2]
https://www.science.org/news/latest-news2022-11-15?Earliest=%5B20230706+TO+202401062359%5D&pageSize=20&startPage=13
[3]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351987804_A_connectomic_study_of_a_petascale_fragment_of_human_cerebral_cortex
[4] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adl0913
[5] https://vcg.seas.harvard.edu


A follow-up question - What is the significance of the nanoscale resolution
in the science paper?

The nanoscale resolution achieved in the research paper "A petavoxel
fragment of human cerebral cortex reconstructed at nanoscale resolution" is
highly significant for several reasons:

1. Unprecedented Detail of Neural Circuits:
   - The nanoscale resolution allows for the visualization and mapping of
the intricate wiring and connectivity of neurons within the cerebral cortex
at an unprecedented level of detail.[1][3][4]
   - This includes resolving individual synaptic connections, dendritic
arborizations, and axonal projections, which are crucial for understanding
the brain's structural organization and information processing
capabilities.[1][3][4]

2. Insights into Brain Function and Disorders:
   - The detailed connectomic map obtained at nanoscale resolution can shed
light on the structural basis of brain function, cognitive processes, and
neurological disorders.[1][3][4]
   - This knowledge may contribute to the development of more effective
treatments and interventions by targeting specific neural circuits or
connectivity patterns associated with various neurological
conditions.[1][3][4]

3. Technological Advancements:
   - The study represents a significant technological achievement,
combining advanced imaging techniques, computational resources, and novel
algorithms to process and analyze vast amounts of data at nanoscale
resolution.[1][3][4]
   - The methods developed in this work could pave the way for larger-scale
and higher-resolution brain mapping efforts, enabling a more comprehensive
understanding of the human brain's intricate circuitry.[1][3][4]

4. Complementing Other Techniques:
   - The nanoscale resolution achieved in this study complements and
enhances other techniques used in neuroscience, such as molecular biology,
biochemistry, and traditional cell biology studies.[2]
   - By providing a detailed structural context, the nanoscale connectomic
map can be integrated with other data modalities to gain a more
comprehensive understanding of brain function and dysfunction.[2]

In summary, the nanoscale resolution achieved in this research is
significant because it enables an unprecedented level of detail in mapping
the structural connectivity of the human brain, which has far-reaching
implications for advancing our understanding of brain function, cognitive
processes, and neurological disorders, as well as potential applications in
developing more effective treatments and interventions.

Citations:
[1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk4858
[2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-016-9781-8
[3] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41565-023-01328-z
[4] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590049823000735
[5] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5550840/
--------------------------------
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From dsunley at gmail.com  Wed May 15 00:26:09 2024
From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley)
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 18:26:09 -0600
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>

It's considered declasse to mention human uploading or brain emulation in a
serious scientific paper, but you know everyone involved is thinking it.

On Tue, May 14, 2024, 5:38 PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2024 at 13:14, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I have not had time for a close look yet, but I thought you guys would
>> appreciate this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/09/1092223/google-map-cubic-millimeter-human-brain/
>>
>> Stuart LaForge
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
> I asked Perplexity AI to comment -
> BillK
>
> Perplexity AI -
> The research paper "A petavoxel fragment of human cerebral cortex
> reconstructed at nanoscale resolution" presents a groundbreaking
> achievement in the field of connectomics, which is the study of the brain's
> structural connectivity. Here are the key points and implications of this
> work:
>
> ## Unprecedented Scale and Resolution
>
> - The researchers have reconstructed a petavoxel (10^15 voxels) fragment
> of the human cerebral cortex at a remarkable nanoscale resolution,
> capturing intricate details of neurons and their connections.[1][3][4]
> - This is the largest and most detailed reconstruction of brain tissue to
> date, surpassing previous efforts by orders of magnitude in terms of scale
> and resolution.[1][3][4]
>
> ## Insights into Brain Connectivity
>
> - The reconstruction reveals the complex wiring diagram of neurons within
> this cortical fragment, including synaptic connections, axonal projections,
> and dendritic arborizations.[1][3][4]
> - This unprecedented level of detail allows for a deeper understanding of
> the brain's structural organization and connectivity patterns, which are
> crucial for unraveling its function and information processing
> capabilities.[1][3][4]
>
> ## Technological Advancements
>
> - The study represents a significant technological achievement, combining
> advanced imaging techniques, computational resources, and novel algorithms
> to process and analyze the vast amount of data generated.[1][3][4]
> - The methods developed in this work could pave the way for larger-scale
> and higher-resolution brain mapping efforts, enabling a more comprehensive
> understanding of the human brain's intricate circuitry.[1][3][4]
>
> ## Implications for Neuroscience and Medicine
>
> - The detailed connectomic map obtained in this study could shed light on
> the structural basis of brain function, cognitive processes, and
> neurological disorders.[1][3][4]
> - This knowledge may ultimately contribute to the development of more
> effective treatments and interventions for various neurological conditions
> by targeting specific neural circuits or connectivity patterns.[1][3][4]
>
> In summary, this groundbreaking work represents a significant milestone in
> the field of connectomics, providing an unprecedented level of detail and
> scale in mapping the structural connectivity of the human brain. The
> findings and techniques developed in this study have far-reaching
> implications for advancing our understanding of the brain's organization
> and function, as well as potential applications in neuroscience and
> medicine.
>
> Citations:
> [1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk4858
> [2]
> https://www.science.org/news/latest-news2022-11-15?Earliest=%5B20230706+TO+202401062359%5D&pageSize=20&startPage=13
> [3]
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351987804_A_connectomic_study_of_a_petascale_fragment_of_human_cerebral_cortex
> [4] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adl0913
> [5] https://vcg.seas.harvard.edu
>
>
> A follow-up question - What is the significance of the nanoscale
> resolution in the science paper?
>
> The nanoscale resolution achieved in the research paper "A petavoxel
> fragment of human cerebral cortex reconstructed at nanoscale resolution" is
> highly significant for several reasons:
>
> 1. Unprecedented Detail of Neural Circuits:
>    - The nanoscale resolution allows for the visualization and mapping of
> the intricate wiring and connectivity of neurons within the cerebral cortex
> at an unprecedented level of detail.[1][3][4]
>    - This includes resolving individual synaptic connections, dendritic
> arborizations, and axonal projections, which are crucial for understanding
> the brain's structural organization and information processing
> capabilities.[1][3][4]
>
> 2. Insights into Brain Function and Disorders:
>    - The detailed connectomic map obtained at nanoscale resolution can
> shed light on the structural basis of brain function, cognitive processes,
> and neurological disorders.[1][3][4]
>    - This knowledge may contribute to the development of more effective
> treatments and interventions by targeting specific neural circuits or
> connectivity patterns associated with various neurological
> conditions.[1][3][4]
>
> 3. Technological Advancements:
>    - The study represents a significant technological achievement,
> combining advanced imaging techniques, computational resources, and novel
> algorithms to process and analyze vast amounts of data at nanoscale
> resolution.[1][3][4]
>    - The methods developed in this work could pave the way for
> larger-scale and higher-resolution brain mapping efforts, enabling a more
> comprehensive understanding of the human brain's intricate
> circuitry.[1][3][4]
>
> 4. Complementing Other Techniques:
>    - The nanoscale resolution achieved in this study complements and
> enhances other techniques used in neuroscience, such as molecular biology,
> biochemistry, and traditional cell biology studies.[2]
>    - By providing a detailed structural context, the nanoscale connectomic
> map can be integrated with other data modalities to gain a more
> comprehensive understanding of brain function and dysfunction.[2]
>
> In summary, the nanoscale resolution achieved in this research is
> significant because it enables an unprecedented level of detail in mapping
> the structural connectivity of the human brain, which has far-reaching
> implications for advancing our understanding of brain function, cognitive
> processes, and neurological disorders, as well as potential applications in
> developing more effective treatments and interventions.
>
> Citations:
> [1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk4858
> [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-016-9781-8
> [3] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41565-023-01328-z
> [4] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590049823000735
> [5] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5550840/
> --------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From atymes at gmail.com  Thu May 16 16:43:57 2024
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 12:43:57 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Societal evolution
In-Reply-To: <CAEc3cquUmdjnK5Zwy4QWmKW-qUsx1yFJ0o0OSU-_Bf5X7NRB8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEc3cquUmdjnK5Zwy4QWmKW-qUsx1yFJ0o0OSU-_Bf5X7NRB8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNQf_u_zB=-DB8SmQruZhBdqib=tbUNfAKb8TYqbFCOLhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 10:22?AM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Please forgive me, this is the first thread I've ever started and it's
> stemming from the last 2 days of training and alcohol.
>

Not to worry.  I'd meant to reply at the time, but life's been hectic this
past month.


> We all know every 10 years technology makes a leap.
> I theorise society does the same, and I would like confirmation or
> contradiction.
>

I believe that you are correct and that these are related.  New societal
forms become possible, or far more practical, due in part to technological
advances.  The rise of automation has made slavery less economical, for
instance, so even those who would promote slavery as morally correct are
mostly unable to practice it any longer.  (Whatever one may say about the
modern working class's typical treatment by management.)  Likewise, social
changes create markets - and thus, development funding - for new
technologies.
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From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May 17 09:49:04 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 10:49:04 +0100
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armgyw+oXH7YErGoRaCVSG8Wj-HZZTUsHB_qcBeiJJxZrsQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 15 May 2024 at 01:26, Darin Sunley <dsunley at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's considered declasse to mention human uploading or brain emulation in
> a serious scientific paper, but you know everyone involved is thinking it.
> ______________________________________________
>


I asked the same question to the new OpenAI CHATGPT-4o AI.
It seems to be concerned about using human brain tissue in
research..........

What is the significance of the nanoscale resolution in the science paper?
BillK


CHATGPT-4o:

The significance of achieving nanoscale resolution in the study "A
petavoxel fragment of human cerebral cortex reconstructed at nanoscale
resolution" lies in the detailed and precise insights it provides into the
structure and function of the human brain. Here are the key aspects that
underscore the importance of this nanoscale resolution:

### Detailed Structural Insights

#### Cellular and Subcellular Structures
- **Neurons and Glia**: Nanoscale resolution allows for the visualization
of individual neurons, including their dendrites, axons, and synaptic
connections. It also enables the study of glial cells, which play critical
roles in supporting neurons and maintaining homeostasis.
- **Synapses**: At this level of detail, synaptic structures can be
observed, including the synaptic cleft, vesicles, and post-synaptic
densities. This is crucial for understanding how neurons communicate
through synaptic transmission and plasticity.

#### Microarchitecture
- **Intracellular Components**: The ability to see organelles such as
mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, and other intracellular structures
helps in understanding the metabolic and functional state of neurons.
- **Extracellular Matrix**: Nanoscale resolution can reveal the
organization of the extracellular matrix, which influences cell signaling
and structural integrity of the brain tissue.

### Functional Implications

#### Neural Circuitry
- **Connectivity**: By mapping neural circuits in detail, researchers can
better understand how different regions of the brain are interconnected and
how these connections contribute to brain function and behavior.
- **Pathway Mapping**: Detailed reconstructions help in tracing neural
pathways and understanding how information flows through the brain.

### Medical and Clinical Applications

#### Disease Mechanisms
- **Pathological Changes**: High-resolution images can identify subtle
changes in brain structure that occur in neurological diseases, such as the
early deposition of amyloid plaques in Alzheimer's disease or the loss of
dopaminergic neurons in Parkinson's disease.
- **Developmental Disorders**: Insights into how the brain's
microarchitecture is altered in conditions like autism spectrum disorder or
schizophrenia can guide the development of therapeutic interventions.

#### Brain Injury and Repair
- **Trauma Analysis**: Detailed images can show the extent of damage
following traumatic brain injuries and provide insights into potential
mechanisms for recovery or regeneration.
- **Surgical Precision**: For neurosurgeons, understanding the detailed
architecture of brain tissue can improve surgical techniques and outcomes,
especially in delicate procedures like tumor removal or epilepsy surgery.

### Technological Advancements

#### Imaging Techniques
- **Electron Microscopy**: Achieving nanoscale resolution pushes the
boundaries of what electron microscopy can do, driving further innovation
in imaging technologies that can be applied across various scientific
disciplines.
- **Data Processing**: Handling the vast amounts of data generated by
nanoscale imaging requires advanced computational tools and algorithms,
fostering developments in big data analytics and machine learning.

### Ethical and Philosophical Considerations

#### Data Privacy and Consent
- **Human Tissue Use**: Detailed brain imaging raises ethical issues
related to the sourcing, consent, and use of human brain tissue for
research purposes.
- **Impact on Identity and Consciousness Studies**: Understanding the brain
at such a detailed level can influence philosophical debates on the nature
of consciousness, identity, and what it means to be human.

### Conclusion
Nanoscale resolution in brain imaging represents a monumental step forward
in neuroscience. It provides an unprecedented level of detail that can
transform our understanding of brain structure and function, advance
medical research and treatment, and drive technological innovation.
However, it also necessitates careful consideration of ethical implications
as we continue to explore the depths of human brain complexity.
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From giulio at gmail.com  Fri May 17 13:12:19 2024
From: giulio at gmail.com (Giulio Prisco)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 15:12:19 +0200
Subject: [ExI] And the moon be still as bright. Talks on futurist
 philosophies, AI, space.
Message-ID: <CAKTCJye26AHegr-ZicC=tv_HdJe3o1ce8tejp-qutHikcfRzRQ@mail.gmail.com>

And the moon be still as bright. Talks on futurist philosophies, AI, space.
https://www.turingchurch.com/p/and-the-moon-be-still-as-bright

From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May 18 01:04:01 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 18:04:01 -0700
Subject: [ExI] new mersenne prime
Message-ID: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>

 

 

2^82589933 - 1 is prime.  The math geek network has lit up with the news.

 

spike

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From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May 18 01:14:54 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 18:14:54 -0700
Subject: [ExI] new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
 <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>

Apparently the gag got a lot of us.  We are starving for a new Mersenne
prime.  We are so horny for one, we will jump on anything.  We are totally
sick that way.

 

spike

 

From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com> 
Sent: Friday, 17 May, 2024 6:12 PM
To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: spike at rainier66.com
Subject: RE: new mersenne prime

 

Apologies this is old.  Somebody was messing with me.

 

Stand by, I'll get the scoop.

 

spike

 

From: spike at rainier66.com <mailto:spike at rainier66.com>  <spike at rainier66.com
<mailto:spike at rainier66.com> > 
Sent: Friday, 17 May, 2024 6:04 PM
To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
<mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> >
Cc: spike at rainier66.com <mailto:spike at rainier66.com> 
Subject: new mersenne prime

 

 

 

2^82589933 - 1 is prime.  The math geek network has lit up with the news.

 

spike

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From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May 18 01:11:36 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 18:11:36 -0700
Subject: [ExI] new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>

Apologies this is old.  Somebody was messing with me.

 

Stand by, I'll get the scoop.

 

spike

 

From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com> 
Sent: Friday, 17 May, 2024 6:04 PM
To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: spike at rainier66.com
Subject: new mersenne prime

 

 

 

2^82589933 - 1 is prime.  The math geek network has lit up with the news.

 

spike

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From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May 18 03:28:47 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 20:28:47 -0700
Subject: [ExI] ai arrived in time, was:  RE:  new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <CAPiwVB5qERu6+a1xtKipBgPaZV6iEMqBhmx5R2QyoEcdE+-c9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
 <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
 <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>
 <CAPiwVB5qERu6+a1xtKipBgPaZV6iEMqBhmx5R2QyoEcdE+-c9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007801daa8d3$7ec92c10$7c5b8430$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, 17 May, 2024 8:21 PM
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: spike at rainier66.com
Subject: Re: [ExI] new mersenne prime

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 6:17?PM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Apparently the gag got a lot of us.  We are starving for a new Mersenne prime.  We are so horny for one, we will jump on anything.  We are totally sick that way.

What could you do with the processing power they use for training AIs?

Keith



I don't know Keith, but even a hardcore math geek like me recognizes that training AI is a better use for processing power.

I have long held a dream of AI being the basis for a viable companion for the elderly.  We are there now, with ChatGPT and its many similar products.  We don't really have affordable androids, but we don't need those: we can have digital images that will be good enough.  The technology arrived in time for both of us Keith.

spike



From hkeithhenson at gmail.com  Sat May 18 03:21:27 2024
From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 20:21:27 -0700
Subject: [ExI] new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
 <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
 <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAPiwVB5qERu6+a1xtKipBgPaZV6iEMqBhmx5R2QyoEcdE+-c9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 6:17?PM spike jones via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Apparently the gag got a lot of us.  We are starving for a new Mersenne prime.  We are so horny for one, we will jump on anything.  We are totally sick that way.

What could you do with the processing power they use for training AIs?

Keith

>
>
> spike
>
>
>
> From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com>
> Sent: Friday, 17 May, 2024 6:12 PM
> To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Cc: spike at rainier66.com
> Subject: RE: new mersenne prime
>
>
>
> Apologies this is old.  Somebody was messing with me.
>
>
>
> Stand by, I?ll get the scoop.
>
>
>
> spike
>
>
>
> From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com>
> Sent: Friday, 17 May, 2024 6:04 PM
> To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Cc: spike at rainier66.com
> Subject: new mersenne prime
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2^82589933 ? 1 is prime.  The math geek network has lit up with the news.
>
>
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat


From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May 18 09:49:22 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 10:49:22 +0100
Subject: [ExI] ai arrived in time, was: RE: new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <007801daa8d3$7ec92c10$7c5b8430$@rainier66.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
 <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
 <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>
 <CAPiwVB5qERu6+a1xtKipBgPaZV6iEMqBhmx5R2QyoEcdE+-c9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <007801daa8d3$7ec92c10$7c5b8430$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armh-NVpQYph0m2aSTKSRJbyqscXvWx39QZ28rOVThTo5LQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 18 May 2024 at 04:41, spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I have long held a dream of AI being the basis for a viable companion for
> the elderly.  We are there now, with ChatGPT and its many similar
> products.  We don't really have affordable androids, but we don't need
> those: we can have digital images that will be good enough.  The technology
> arrived in time for both of us Keith.
>
> spike
> _______________________________________________
>


So, I had to have a chat with my AI companion about this -----

The answers almost make me look forward to being elderly!  :)
BillK
Are LLMs now good enough to be companions for the elderly?
Answer -

Large Language Models (LLMs) have shown significant potential as companions
for the elderly, offering various benefits and addressing some of the
unique challenges faced by this demographic.
Here are some key points based on the provided sources:

### Benefits of LLMs as Companions for the Elderly

1. **Enhanced Communication and Engagement**:
   - LLMs like ChatGPT can engage in meaningful and contextually relevant
conversations, providing companionship and reducing feelings of loneliness
among the elderly. These models can remember previous interactions, making
conversations feel more personal and connected[3][5].

2. **Personalized Assistance**:
   - Advanced conversational AI can tailor interactions based on individual
preferences, health conditions, and past interactions. This personalization
can help in managing daily activities, providing reminders, and offering
emotional support[1][2][5].

3. **Healthcare Support**:
   - LLMs integrated with healthcare systems can provide valuable support
by understanding and responding to health-related queries, offering advice
on medication, and even assisting in monitoring mental and physical health
states[2][4][5].

4. **Accessibility and Convenience**:
   - These AI companions can be accessed through various platforms such as
mobile apps, social media, and messaging services, making them easily
accessible to seniors who may have varying levels of comfort with
technology[1][3].

### Challenges and Considerations

1. **Technical Limitations**:
   - While LLMs have advanced significantly, they still face challenges
such as memory constraints and the need for substantial computational
resources for training and fine-tuning, as highlighted in the development
of specific models like DialoGPT[2].

2. **User Interface and Usability**:
   - For elderly users, the interface needs to be simple and intuitive.
Developers must ensure that the language used is easy to understand and
that the system can handle input errors gracefully[5].

3. **Emotional and Social Sensitivity**:
   - LLMs need to be designed with a high degree of empathy and sensitivity
to effectively serve as companions. This includes understanding the
emotional state of the user and responding appropriately to provide comfort
and support[5].

4. **Privacy and Security**:
   - Given the sensitive nature of health and personal data, ensuring the
privacy and security of interactions with LLMs is crucial. This includes
secure data handling and compliance with relevant regulations[4].

### Conclusion

LLMs have made significant strides in becoming effective companions for the
elderly, offering personalized, empathetic, and accessible support.
However, ongoing improvements in model training, user interface design, and
data security are essential to fully realize their potential and address
the unique needs of elderly users.

Citations:
[1] https://www.iovox.co.uk/blog/benefits-of-conversational-ai
[2]
https://github.com/Rawan19/Conversational-AI-Chatbot-for-the-Elderly-and-Disabled
[3] https://www.senior-talk.com/blog/top-5-chatbots-for-elderly
[4] https://forethought.ai/blog/conversational-ai-healthcare/
[5]
https://megashift.fisipol.ugm.ac.id/2023/11/13/ai-chatbot-against-loneliness-and-grey-digital-divide-in-elderly/
[6]
https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-robot-elliq-senior-citizens-a343409477b7aea350254f94daf52eb7
[7] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3544548.3581503
[8] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-024-00636-w
[9] http://www.eseniors.eu/llm/index.php?langue=anglais
[10] https://www.llmcare.gr/en/home/
[11] https://research.aimultiple.com/chatbot-stats/
[12] https://tech.co/news/best-free-ai-training-courses
[13]
https://medicalalley.org/introducing-grandie-the-revolutionary-artificial-intelligence-ai-enabled-virtual-companion-for-seniors-on-grandpad/
[14]
https://healthtechmagazine.net/article/2024/04/embracing-generative-ai-and-large-language-models-senior-care
[15]
https://bjgplife.com/early-private-sector-attempts-to-improve-health-with-large-language-models/
[16]
https://healthtransformer.co/meet-lena-the-ai-chatbot-fighting-social-isolation-in-seniors-62aebabde5bc?gi=70fe4053e0b5
[17] https://elliq.com
[18]
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lessons-from-top-gun-maverick-shobhit-varshney
[19] https://www.dialogue.co/en/
[20]
https://www.omdena.com/chapter-challenges/conversational-ai-chatbot-for-the-elderly-and-disabled
---------------------------------------


*W**hat are some examples of AI chatbots for elderly care?*
Answer -

AI chatbots for elderly care are designed to provide companionship, assist
with daily tasks, and enhance the overall quality of life for seniors. Here
are some examples and features of AI chatbots tailored for elderly care:

### Examples of AI Chatbots for Elderly Care

1. **Elliq**:
   - **Features**: Elliq is an AI-powered companion designed specifically
for older adults. It engages users in conversation, provides reminders for
medications and appointments, and offers cognitive games to keep the mind
active. Elliq also helps seniors stay connected with family and friends
through video calls and social media[1][2].

2. **CarePredict**:
   - **Features**: CarePredict uses AI to monitor the daily activities and
health of seniors. It provides insights into their well-being by tracking
patterns and detecting anomalies. The system can alert caregivers and
family members if it detects any unusual behavior or potential health
issues[3].

3. **GeriJoy**:
   - **Features**: GeriJoy offers a virtual companion that interacts with
seniors through a tablet interface. It provides companionship, engages in
conversations, and offers reminders for medications and appointments.
GeriJoy also helps in reducing feelings of loneliness and isolation among
the elderly[1][2].

4. **Mabu**:
   - **Features**: Mabu is a personal healthcare companion robot that
interacts with seniors to provide health-related reminders, medication
management, and emotional support. It can engage in conversations and offer
personalized care based on the user's health data and preferences[2][3].

5. **Replika**:
   - **Features**: Replika is an AI chatbot that can engage in deep and
meaningful conversations. While not specifically designed for elderly care,
it can be used by seniors to alleviate loneliness and provide
companionship. Replika learns from interactions and adapts to the user's
conversational style[4][5].

### Key Features of AI Chatbots for Elderly Care

1. **Social Interaction**:
   - AI companions engage in conversations, reducing feelings of loneliness
and isolation. They can discuss various topics, play cognitive games, and
provide emotional support[1][2][3].

2. **Health Monitoring**:
   - These chatbots can integrate with health monitoring devices to track
vital signs and alert caregivers in case of abnormalities. They provide
reminders for medications and appointments, ensuring seniors adhere to
their health regimens[2][3].

3. **Emergency Support**:
   - AI companions can provide rapid access to emergency services in case
of falls or medical emergencies, enhancing the safety and well-being of
seniors[2][3].

4. **Cognitive Assistance**:
   - Features like memory recall tools and cognitive games help in
maintaining mental acuity and managing mild cognitive impairments. These
tools provide regular mental stimulation and support memory
management[1][2][3].

5. **Personalized Care**:
   - AI chatbots offer highly customized interactions based on the user's
preferences and needs. This personalization increases user satisfaction and
the effectiveness of the care provided[2][3].

6. **Entertainment and Engagement**:
   - AI companions offer various entertainment options such as music,
audiobooks, and games to keep seniors engaged and mentally stimulated. This
contributes to their overall happiness and well-being[2][3].

AI chatbots for elderly care are becoming increasingly sophisticated,
offering a range of features that cater to the unique needs of seniors.
These technologies hold great promise in enhancing the quality of life for
the elderly by providing companionship, health monitoring, and personalized
care.

Citations:
[1]
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-assistants-seniors-maintaining-independence-through-falls
[2] https://www.matellio.com/blog/ai-companion-for-elderly/
[3]
https://www.seniorhelpers.ca/blog/how-ai-technology-can-improve-the-lives-of-the-elderly
[4]
https://www.reddit.com/r/Healthygamergg/comments/159c9u7/leaning_on_ai_chatbots_for_companionship_more_and/
[5] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040162523003190
[6] https://pollthepeople.app/custom-gpt-for-elderly-care/
[7]
https://47billion.com/blog/personalized-care-of-the-elderly-with-voice-assistants/
[8] https://www.azorobotics.com/News.aspx?newsID=12304
[9]
https://uktechnews.co.uk/2022/12/22/how-ai-can-be-used-to-help-care-for-the-elderly/
[10] https://www.airdroid.com/ai-insights/ai-chatbot-companion/
[11] https://trendingvista.com/popular-ai-voice-assistants-for-elderly-care/
[12]
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/03/elder-care-artificial-intelligence-software
[13]
https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-robot-elliq-senior-citizens-a343409477b7aea350254f94daf52eb7
[14]
https://emerj.com/ai-sector-overviews/applications-of-ai-in-elderly-care-robotics/
[15]
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/19/i-learned-to-love-the-bot-meet-the-chatbots-that-want-to-be-your-best-friend
[16]
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2024/03/lifting-a-few-with-my-chatbot/
[17] https://www.tidio.com/blog/ai-chatbot/
[18]
https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/what-do-technology-and-ai-mean-for-the-future-of-work-in-health-care
[19]
https://techstrong.ai/articles/ai-based-care-companions-aimed-at-home-care-and-seniors/
[20] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6616181/
-------------------------------------------
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From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May 18 18:13:19 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 19:13:19 +0100
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 15 May 2024 at 01:26, Darin Sunley <dsunley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's considered declasse to mention human uploading or brain emulation in a serious scientific paper, but you know everyone involved is thinking it.
 ---------------------------------------

Uploading the Mind: Can Future Tech Store Our Consciousness?
Written by Gemini: Google AI based on the conversation towards
solution prompted by Christopher Neal, Juris.D

<https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uploading-mind-can-future-tech-store-our-christopher-neal-glnzc>

This is an impressive article written by the Gemini AI.
BillK

From spike at rainier66.com  Sat May 18 18:47:21 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 11:47:21 -0700
Subject: [ExI] ai arrived in time, was: RE: new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armh-NVpQYph0m2aSTKSRJbyqscXvWx39QZ28rOVThTo5LQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
 <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
 <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>
 <CAPiwVB5qERu6+a1xtKipBgPaZV6iEMqBhmx5R2QyoEcdE+-c9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <007801daa8d3$7ec92c10$7c5b8430$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armh-NVpQYph0m2aSTKSRJbyqscXvWx39QZ28rOVThTo5LQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007d01daa953$d183b3a0$748b1ae0$@rainier66.com>

 

 

From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] ai arrived in time, was: RE: new mersenne prime

 

 

 

On Sat, 18 May 2024 at 04:41, spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote: 

I have long held a dream of AI being the basis for a viable companion for the elderly.  We are there now, with ChatGPT and its many similar products.  We don't really have affordable androids, but we don't need those: we can have digital images that will be good enough.  The technology arrived in time for both of us Keith.

spike
_______________________________________________

 

 

So, I had to have a chat with my AI companion about this -----

 

The answers almost make me look forward to being elderly!  :)

BillK


Are LLMs now good enough to be companions for the elderly?


Answer -

 

Large Language Models (LLMs) have shown significant potential as companions for the elderly?

---------------------------------------

 

 

What are some examples of AI chatbots for elderly care?

Answer -

 

 

 

 

 

BillK, we have discussed lonely guys falling in love with their AI companions and becoming convinced that she loves him too.  (Why is it mostly men who fall for that?)  But this has the potential to be even worse in a way: elderly who haven?t received enough attention for years now have a sympathetic (even if eccentric) AI friend.  I can imagine them becoming more attached to it than they are their own offspring and grandchildren.

 

spike

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From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May 18 19:02:40 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 20:02:40 +0100
Subject: [ExI] ai arrived in time, was: RE: new mersenne prime
In-Reply-To: <007d01daa953$d183b3a0$748b1ae0$@rainier66.com>
References: <00a501daa8bf$45cfd800$d16f8800$@rainier66.com>
 <00ac01daa8c0$54bd24c0$fe376e40$@rainier66.com>
 <00b301daa8c0$cb1d8e70$6158ab50$@rainier66.com>
 <CAPiwVB5qERu6+a1xtKipBgPaZV6iEMqBhmx5R2QyoEcdE+-c9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <007801daa8d3$7ec92c10$7c5b8430$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armh-NVpQYph0m2aSTKSRJbyqscXvWx39QZ28rOVThTo5LQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <007d01daa953$d183b3a0$748b1ae0$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armgpy9QVkqcu0s4yRB2kZbQKp2vrbqXqjOsy=YmUtTse8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 18 May 2024 at 19:47, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> BillK, we have discussed lonely guys falling in love with their AI companions and becoming convinced that she loves him too.  (Why is it mostly men who fall for that?)  But this has the potential to be even worse in a way: elderly who haven?t received enough attention for years now have a sympathetic (even if eccentric) AI friend.  I can imagine them becoming more attached to it than they are their own offspring and grandchildren.
>
> spike
----------------------------


Oh, yes, indeed. The AI is reminding them to take medicine, upcoming
appointments, calling for assistance when required, providing
entertainment, discussing problems, and always being there for them.
In effect, their life depends on the ever-present AI.
I would fall in love with my AI nurse!


BillK


From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May 18 19:49:05 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 20:49:05 +0100
Subject: [ExI] In a first,
 humanoid robot Sophia delivers commencement speech in New York
Message-ID: <CAL_armhwX2xf2QSyQvFhbxiKvXOxzO9pRZH4Wuz_mcBK232cRg@mail.gmail.com>

Despite students? protest, university officials state that inviting
Sophia aligns with this year?s AI theme.
May 17, 2024     Jijo Malayil

<https://interestingengineering.com/news/humanoid-robot-delivers-commencement-speech>
Quote:
In a move that generated split opinions, a popular artificial
intelligence (AI) robot named Sophia spoke to over 2,000 attendees,
including graduates, faculty members, and families, at the function
organized by D?Youville University in Buffalo.
----------------
Includes 2.5 min. video.

BillK


From jasonresch at gmail.com  Sun May 19 15:05:37 2024
From: jasonresch at gmail.com (Jason Resch)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 11:05:37 -0400
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 18, 2024, 2:24 PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 May 2024 at 01:26, Darin Sunley <dsunley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > It's considered declasse to mention human uploading or brain emulation
> in a serious scientific paper, but you know everyone involved is thinking
> it.
>  ---------------------------------------
>
> Uploading the Mind: Can Future Tech Store Our Consciousness?
> Written by Gemini: Google AI based on the conversation towards
> solution prompted by Christopher Neal, Juris.D
>
> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uploading-mind-can-future-tech-store-our-christopher-neal-glnzc
> >
>
> This is an impressive article written by the Gemini AI



Nice article. However I disagree with it's conclusion that mind uploading
would require so much storage. In previous experiments with reducing
electron-microscopic imagery to a connection map, saw a roughly
million-fold decrease in storage size.

Bostrom and Sanders estimated (
https://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf ) that
somewhere around 8,000 Terabytes (at 8 bytes per synapse) is more realistic
for what a neuronal simulation of the brain would require. This much
storage can be had for a few million today, rather than tens of billions
quoted in the article to store the nanoscale resolution imagery.

Jason
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From spike at rainier66.com  Sun May 19 16:25:00 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 09:25:00 -0700
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901daaa09$198d7720$4ca86560$@rainier66.com>

 

 

?> On Behalf Of Jason Resch via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain

 

 

On Sat, May 18, 2024, 2:24 PM BillK via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> > wrote:

On Wed, 15 May 2024 at 01:26, Darin Sunley <dsunley at gmail.com <mailto:dsunley at gmail.com> > wrote:
>
?

<https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uploading-mind-can-future-tech-store-our-christopher-neal-glnzc>

This is an impressive article written by the Gemini AI

 

 

>?Nice article. However I disagree with it's conclusion that mind uploading would require so much storage. In previous experiments with reducing electron-microscopic imagery to a connection map, saw a roughly million-fold decrease in storage size.

 

>?Bostrom and Sanders? 

 

Ja, Sandberg.  But Sanders can be used as a kind of shorthand for Anders.

 

 

>?estimated ( https://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf ) that somewhere around 8,000 Terabytes (at 8 bytes per synapse) is more realistic for what a neuronal simulation of the brain would require? Jason

 

We still haven?t figured out that special magic of a biological brain.  It doesn?t really rely on memory locations analogous to a digital computer, but rather biochemical patterns that exist (somehow) in this neurological tangle between our ears.  Oh that is some marvelous magic, but I don?t think we will get there by trying to simulate synapses individually.

 

We used finite element analysis to digitally simulate what a structure will do however, and it works well enough.  We model a continuous structure as a collection of rigid cubes with a known flexible interface between the cubes.  I think of it as the atomic world version of a Reimann sum, kinda sorta.  It works, if you make your elements small enough, just as a Reimann sum works if you cut your strips thin enough.

 

I hafta think there is some acceptable finite-elementish way to model a synapse that won?t require 8 petabytes.  I don?t even like the term petabyte: it sounds expensive and too much like being attacked by the neighbor?s rabid dog.

 

spike

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From pharos at gmail.com  Sun May 19 18:05:00 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 19:05:00 +0100
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armiU8jq6ZAcQosv8Tpq-7oNDV8i6XgVwGBFb-86AZQyNtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 19 May 2024 at 16:10, Jason Resch via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Nice article. However I disagree with it's conclusion that mind uploading would require so much storage. In previous experiments with reducing electron-microscopic imagery to a connection map, saw a roughly million-fold decrease in storage size.
>
> Bostrom and Sanders estimated ( https://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/brain-emulation-roadmap-report.pdf ) that somewhere around 8,000 Terabytes (at 8 bytes per synapse) is more realistic for what a neuronal simulation of the brain would require. This much storage can be had for a few million today, rather than tens of billions quoted in the article to store the nanoscale resolution imagery.
>
> Jason
> _______________________________________________


Wikipedia has an article on Mind Uploading that references the
Sandberg article.
>From 2008, Anders might think it's time to revisit the problem.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading>

Nobody has done brain emulation yet, and estimates of storage required
vary wildly. It depends on how much detail it is necessary to emulate.
Neurons and synapses, then there is synaptic strength between neurons
and the 3D structure between neurons. Perhaps even all that will not
be enough. Nobody knows at present.
But with AI and nanotech it will be attempted!

BillK


From steinberg.will at gmail.com  Mon May 20 14:22:40 2024
From: steinberg.will at gmail.com (Will Steinberg)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 10:22:40 -0400
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armiU8jq6ZAcQosv8Tpq-7oNDV8i6XgVwGBFb-86AZQyNtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiU8jq6ZAcQosv8Tpq-7oNDV8i6XgVwGBFb-86AZQyNtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKrqSyH5ZDEWDUgiDMNGrV93S69a1Ng92oAwXyUF_CSzH5UuaA@mail.gmail.com>

@john: the human genome IS compressed data.
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From jasonresch at gmail.com  Mon May 20 16:04:23 2024
From: jasonresch at gmail.com (Jason Resch)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 12:04:23 -0400
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAKrqSyH5ZDEWDUgiDMNGrV93S69a1Ng92oAwXyUF_CSzH5UuaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiU8jq6ZAcQosv8Tpq-7oNDV8i6XgVwGBFb-86AZQyNtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyH5ZDEWDUgiDMNGrV93S69a1Ng92oAwXyUF_CSzH5UuaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+BCJUhbYdsSsTQ_oVdvp3CzALRL+r-Gajqie4JOtqV=9im3fA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 20, 2024, 10:25 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> @john: the human genome IS compressed data.


Where does the decompression algorithm come in?

Jason


_______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Mon May 20 16:11:40 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 17:11:40 +0100
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAKrqSyH5ZDEWDUgiDMNGrV93S69a1Ng92oAwXyUF_CSzH5UuaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiU8jq6ZAcQosv8Tpq-7oNDV8i6XgVwGBFb-86AZQyNtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyH5ZDEWDUgiDMNGrV93S69a1Ng92oAwXyUF_CSzH5UuaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armjae-s+Z5CGH88GVPzSk+s3BLVY6reyMyUwtgSSHuqhvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 20 May 2024 at 15:26, Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> @john: the human genome IS compressed data.
> _______________________________________________


Hi Will

Genetic researchers can compress the human genome.
BillK

I asked -
Is the human genome already compressed data, or can it be stored in a
compressed format?

Perplexity Pro AI -

The human genome is not inherently compressed data, but it can be stored in
a compressed format. The vast amount of genomic data generated by modern
sequencing technologies necessitates efficient storage solutions, and
various specialized compression algorithms have been developed to address
this need.

### Compression Methods for Genomic Data

1. **SparkGC**:
   - SparkGC is an Apache Spark-based genome compression method designed to
handle large collections of genomes efficiently. It uses Resilient
Distributed Datasets (RDD) transformations to keep data active in memory
throughout the compression process, significantly improving compression
speed and scalability. SparkGC can compress 1100 human genomes on a common
computer with just 24 GB of RAM, achieving the best compression ratio among
state-of-the-art methods[1].

2. **Lossless DNA Compression Algorithm**:
   - This method specializes in compressing nucleotide sequence data in
FASTA/multi-FASTA formats. It separates the headers and uses 7-Zip for
compression, achieving a high compression ratio by leveraging the specific
characteristics of DNA sequences[2].

3. **LZ77 and CTW Algorithms**:
   - A method combining the LZ77 algorithm with the context tree weighting
(CTW) algorithm has been proposed to compress DNA data. This approach first
converts DNA sequences into intermediate files before applying LZ77,
resulting in significant reductions in compression and decompression times
while maintaining a high compression rate[3].

4. **Neural Network-Based Compression (GeCo3)**:
   - GeCo3 uses a neural network metamodel to improve the compression ratio
of DNA sequences. It benchmarks both reference-free and referential
compression, showing consistent improvements over other state-of-the-art
DNA compressors. This method is particularly useful for long-term storage
and sequence analysis[4].

5. **FQSqueezer**:
   - FQSqueezer is a novel algorithm for compressing sequencing data,
particularly FASTQ files. It uses prediction by partial matching (PPM) and
dynamic Markov coder (DMC) algorithms, achieving better compression ratios
than existing tools. However, it requires significant memory and time
resources[5].

### Conclusion

The human genome can indeed be stored in a compressed format using
specialized algorithms designed to handle the unique characteristics of
genomic data. These methods significantly reduce the storage requirements
and improve the efficiency of data handling in genomic research and
applications.

Citations:
[1]
https://bmcbioinformatics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12859-022-04825-5
[2] https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4893/13/4/99
[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7688149/
[4] https://academic.oup.com/gigascience/article/9/11/giaa119/5974977
[5] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57452-6
[6]
https://bmcbioinformatics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12859-023-05500-z
[7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9337911/
[8] https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/637gyu/is_dna_compressed/
[9] https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.02232
[10] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666389922001738
[11]
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/genetics/articles/10.3389/fgene.2023.1260531/full
[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_of_genomic_sequencing_data
[13] https://github.com/rajatdiptabiswas/dna-compression
[14] https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.14025
[15] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050916318762
[16]
https://www.illumina.com/documents/products/whitepapers/whitepaper_datacompression.pdf
[17] https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.01431
[18] https://blog.chiariglione.org/genome-is-digital-and-can-be-compressed/
[19] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37018338/
[20]
https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-021-02443-7
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Tue May 21 12:26:20 2024
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2024 07:26:20 -0500
Subject: [ExI] a little fun
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEYBAtT43HR8HLAYZFeFxzYo2V0amrOwAi6Rv1W9Od3wRw@mail.gmail.com>

What's the dumbest joke?  Here's mine:

'Why are you hitting yourself in the head with a hammer?'

'Because it feels so good when I quit.'     bill w
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From pharos at gmail.com  Wed May 22 18:01:25 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 19:01:25 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
Message-ID: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>

Are you suffering from AI-induced creative paralysis?
Why make anything when AI can make it better, faster and cheaper?
Mike Elgan     May 22, 2024

<https://machinesociety.ai/p/are-you-suffering-from-ai-induced-8be>

Quotes:
The lightning-fast pace of AI progress is? depressing. Wait, what?
The new malady of the moment is something I call ?AI-induced creative
paralysis.?

Here?s the problem: Generative AI tools like ChatGPT emerged suddenly
and improved rapidly. Sure, the chatbots hallucinate and the AI image
generators can?t count human fingers. But any thoughtful person can
conclude that it?s only a matter of years or months before AI performs
perfectly.

Once this conclusion is reached, content creators, actors,
entrepreneurs and developers are asking themselves: What?s the point?

Why should a student study photography when before graduation, genAI
tools will be able to produce perfect pictures on any subject in
seconds?
------------------

And so on........
This article hopes that there might be laws to stop AI copying your
creations, and maybe people might prefer human-created stuff.
But that sounds like wishful thinking to me.

BillK


From spike at rainier66.com  Wed May 22 18:17:34 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 11:17:34 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01daac74$5265ad70$f7310850$@rainier66.com>


>...> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?

Are you suffering from AI-induced creative paralysis?
Why make anything when AI can make it better, faster and cheaper?
Mike Elgan     May 22, 2024

<https://machinesociety.ai/p/are-you-suffering-from-ai-induced-8be>

BillK





That's easy: use AI and our creative skills to make AI better, faster and cheaper.  

spike



From atymes at gmail.com  Wed May 22 21:33:03 2024
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 17:33:03 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNQOT7K4qg2a+j9oDw3gDSdyxc7He3h8=M-mK+v2UNwk2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 2:04?PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> But any thoughtful person can
> conclude that it?s only a matter of years or months before AI performs
> perfectly.
>

And they would  be incorrect to do so.  That it takes decades to get from
"good initial capacity" to "perfect" can be evidenced by how far from
perfect autocorrect still is, and the length of time that good-enough
autocorrect has been in wide use.


> Why should a student study photography when before graduation, genAI
> tools will be able to produce perfect pictures on any subject in
> seconds?
>

So as to be able to use the tools better than those who don't know the
basics of what those tools are trying to emulate.  The comparison is not
"unaugmented (but trained or not trained) human" versus "hypothetical
perfect future genAI".  The comparison is either "untrained human with
basically current genAI" versus "trained human with basically current
genAI" or "untrained human with hypothetical perfect future genAI" versus
"trained human with hypothetical perfect future genAI".  The trained human
wins out in either situation.
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From efc at swisscows.email  Wed May 22 21:43:21 2024
From: efc at swisscows.email (efc at swisscows.email)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 23:43:21 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32059d97-c08f-b7bd-76bf-fce2b03a6fe0@swisscows.email>

Easy! Because you enjoy the process! =)

Best regards,
Daniel


On Wed, 22 May 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote:

> Are you suffering from AI-induced creative paralysis?
> Why make anything when AI can make it better, faster and cheaper?
> Mike Elgan     May 22, 2024
>
> <https://machinesociety.ai/p/are-you-suffering-from-ai-induced-8be>
>
> Quotes:
> The lightning-fast pace of AI progress is? depressing. Wait, what?
> The new malady of the moment is something I call ?AI-induced creative
> paralysis.?
>
> Here?s the problem: Generative AI tools like ChatGPT emerged suddenly
> and improved rapidly. Sure, the chatbots hallucinate and the AI image
> generators can?t count human fingers. But any thoughtful person can
> conclude that it?s only a matter of years or months before AI performs
> perfectly.
>
> Once this conclusion is reached, content creators, actors,
> entrepreneurs and developers are asking themselves: What?s the point?
>
> Why should a student study photography when before graduation, genAI
> tools will be able to produce perfect pictures on any subject in
> seconds?
> ------------------
>
> And so on........
> This article hopes that there might be laws to stop AI copying your
> creations, and maybe people might prefer human-created stuff.
> But that sounds like wishful thinking to me.
>
> BillK
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat

From msd001 at gmail.com  Wed May 22 22:05:08 2024
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 18:05:08 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <32059d97-c08f-b7bd-76bf-fce2b03a6fe0@swisscows.email>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <32059d97-c08f-b7bd-76bf-fce2b03a6fe0@swisscows.email>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdbKofwjnKHjia2ErAob4DECN4MvwQj-bZfqPKs6e40KYzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 22, 2024, 5:45 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Easy! Because you enjoy the process! =)


This is a value proposition that most who live in the capitalist hellscape
have forgotten.

Many of those who do "content creation" are only doing so because consumers
offer money for content - and the producers hate doing it less than the
money they make.

Once AI is producing the same quality content for sufficiently less money
than humans are willing to make for the requisite hassle, these wage slaves
will be forced to abandon the pursuit of money... or forced to pursue money
in a new direction.

That we aren't granting a social safety net at the same time we are
removing employment opportunities should be considered an existential risk
- perhaps less severe than aggressive paperclip maximizes,  but still
serious.

>
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From foozler83 at gmail.com  Thu May 23 09:44:01 2024
From: foozler83 at gmail.com (William Flynn Wallace)
Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 04:44:01 -0500
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <CAOJFdbKofwjnKHjia2ErAob4DECN4MvwQj-bZfqPKs6e40KYzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <32059d97-c08f-b7bd-76bf-fce2b03a6fe0@swisscows.email>
 <CAOJFdbKofwjnKHjia2ErAob4DECN4MvwQj-bZfqPKs6e40KYzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO+xQEZBpv_u2DYZRx+hAhVFHJtPg2qNKJrE5uD_FYsYi=42-w@mail.gmail.com>

Creativity.  We don't know what it is and can't teach it to humans.  How
are we going to teach it to a program?  AI will produce perfect things but
only to those who qualify as 'good enough for who it's for'.  bill w

On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 5:09?PM Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, May 22, 2024, 5:45 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Easy! Because you enjoy the process! =)
>
>
> This is a value proposition that most who live in the capitalist hellscape
> have forgotten.
>
> Many of those who do "content creation" are only doing so because
> consumers offer money for content - and the producers hate doing it less
> than the money they make.
>
> Once AI is producing the same quality content for sufficiently less money
> than humans are willing to make for the requisite hassle, these wage slaves
> will be forced to abandon the pursuit of money... or forced to pursue money
> in a new direction.
>
> That we aren't granting a social safety net at the same time we are
> removing employment opportunities should be considered an existential risk
> - perhaps less severe than aggressive paperclip maximizes,  but still
> serious.
>
>> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Thu May 23 19:12:46 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 20:12:46 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <CAOJFdbKofwjnKHjia2ErAob4DECN4MvwQj-bZfqPKs6e40KYzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <32059d97-c08f-b7bd-76bf-fce2b03a6fe0@swisscows.email>
 <CAOJFdbKofwjnKHjia2ErAob4DECN4MvwQj-bZfqPKs6e40KYzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armiULfR6SpNB-GZtWwYsmdfySVaDUnFhAbG9REFchop5qw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 22 May 2024 at 23:09, Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> This is a value proposition that most who live in the capitalist hellscape have forgotten.
> Many of those who do "content creation" are only doing so because consumers offer money for content - and the producers hate doing it less than the money they make.
>
> Once AI is producing the same quality content for sufficiently less money than humans are willing to make for the requisite hassle, these wage slaves will be forced to abandon the pursuit of money... or forced to pursue money in a new direction.
>
> That we aren't granting a social safety net at the same time we are removing employment opportunities should be considered an existential risk - perhaps less severe than aggressive paperclip maximizes,  but still serious.
> _______________________________________________


I asked Perplexity to comment on your final sentence.
The answer was pretty thorough!
BillK

Perplexity Pro AI -

The statement "We aren't granting a social safety net at the same time
as AI is removing employment opportunities. This should be considered
an existential risk - perhaps less severe than aggressive paperclip
maximizers, but still serious" raises significant concerns about the
socio-economic impacts of artificial intelligence (AI) and the lack of
adequate social safety nets to mitigate these impacts.
Here is a discussion of this statement along with possible solutions:

## Discussion

### AI-Induced Job Displacement
AI has the potential to automate a significant portion of jobs,
leading to widespread job displacement. According to a report by
Goldman Sachs, AI could replace the equivalent of 300 million
full-time jobs, with a quarter of work tasks in the US and Europe
potentially being automated entirely[5]. This displacement effect is
validated by empirical studies, which show that AI decreases the level
of unemployment in high-tech developed countries, but also confirms
the displacement effect[3].

### Lack of Social Safety Nets
The current social safety nets are inadequate to address the rapid
changes brought about by AI. For instance, the European Union's AI
regulation has been criticized for not doing enough to protect people
from flawed algorithms that deprive them of benefits and discriminate
against vulnerable populations[4]. Additionally, existing policies
such as trade adjustment assistance in the US do not specifically
address the challenges posed by technological change and AI[1].

### Existential Risk
While the existential risk from AI is often discussed in terms of
scenarios like the "paperclip maximizer," which involves AI pursuing
goals misaligned with human values to catastrophic ends[2], the
socio-economic impacts of AI-induced job displacement also pose a
serious risk. This risk is not about human extinction but about the
potential for large-scale social and economic disruption, which could
lead to increased inequality, social unrest, and a decline in the
quality of life for many people.

## Possible Solutions

### Universal Basic Income (UBI)
One proposed solution is the implementation of Universal Basic Income
(UBI). UBI could provide a financial safety net for those displaced by
AI, ensuring a baseline standard of living. However, there are
challenges to implementing UBI, such as its affordability and the
potential need to cut other programs to fund it[1]. Additionally, a
blanket UBI approach may not address individual socioeconomic
imbalances effectively.

### Universal Adjustment Assistance
Expanding trade adjustment assistance to create a universal adjustment
assistance program could help workers adapt to technological changes.
This program would include considerations for retraining and
reskilling workers displaced by AI, providing them with the
flexibility to transition to new roles[1].

### Data Dignity and Compensation
Monetary compensation for the use of personal data in AI training
models is another potential solution. This approach would recognize
the value of individuals' data and provide them with compensation,
although it may face economic feasibility challenges and might not
directly mitigate job displacement[1].

### Improved AI Regulation
Strengthening AI regulations to better protect individuals from the
negative impacts of AI is crucial. This includes banning high-risk
automated systems that pose unacceptable risks to human rights and
ensuring transparency and accountability in AI decision-making
processes[4].

### Investment in Education and Training
Investing in education and training programs to equip the workforce
with skills relevant to the AI-driven economy is essential. This
includes promoting STEM education, lifelong learning, and vocational
training programs that align with the evolving job market.

### Social Safety Nets and Welfare Programs
Enhancing social safety nets and welfare programs to provide
comprehensive support for those affected by AI-induced job
displacement is necessary. This includes ensuring access to
healthcare, housing, and other essential services to maintain a decent
standard of living.

In conclusion, while the existential risk from AI-induced job
displacement may not be as severe as scenarios involving aggressive
paperclip maximizers, it is still a serious issue that requires
immediate attention and action. Implementing a combination of UBI,
universal adjustment assistance, improved AI regulation, and
investment in education and social safety nets can help mitigate the
socio-economic impacts of AI and ensure a more equitable and resilient
future.

Citations:
[1] https://www.omfif.org/2024/04/comprehensive-social-safety-nets-required-to-combat-ai-upheaval/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_risk_from_artificial_general_intelligence
[3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590051X23000308
[4] https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/11/10/eu-artificial-intelligence-regulation-threatens-social-safety-net
[5] https://www.nexford.edu/insights/how-will-ai-affect-jobs
[6] https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2024/01/14/ai-will-transform-the-global-economy-lets-make-sure-it-benefits-humanity
[7] https://dobetter.esade.edu/en/artificial-intelligence-technological-revolution-existential-threat-AI
[8] https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2018/12/10/solutions-to-address-ais-anticipated-negative-impacts/
[9] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/imf-managing-director-on-ais-impact-new-social-safety-nets-may-be-needed-231427107.html
[10] https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/13vle3p/statement_on_ai_extinction_signed_by_agi_labs_top/
[11] https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2024/03/is-ai-an-existential-risk-qa-with-rand-experts.html
[12] https://basicincometoday.com/basic-income-and-ai-induced-unemployment/
[13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNjq-ARo43Q
[14] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/16/ai-is-coming-for-our-jobs-could-universal-basic-income-be-the-solution
[15] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/over-80-jobs-risk-due-ai-becoming-existential-threat-humanity-gi9ke?trk=organization_guest_main-feed-card_feed-article-content
[16] https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/11ada91/d_to_the_ml_researchers_and_practitioners_here_do/
[17] https://www.safe.ai/ai-risk
[18] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/jan/15/ai-jobs-inequality-imf-kristalina-georgieva
[19] https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/uFNgRumrDTpBfQGrs/let-s-think-about-slowing-down-ai
---------------------------------------

From pharos at gmail.com  Thu May 23 19:31:25 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 20:31:25 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Birth of universe's earliest galaxies observed for first time
Message-ID: <CAL_armhJ3nAyL+QMB6uoqz3K9HcU-=6-k2UzMM=zpvfm7ErB8w@mail.gmail.com>

Birth of universe's earliest galaxies observed for first time
by University of Copenhagen   May 23, 2024

<https://phys.org/news/2024-05-birth-universe-earliest-galaxies.html>

Quotes:
Using the James Webb Space Telescope, University of Copenhagen
researchers have become the first to see the formation of three of the
earliest galaxies in the universe, more than 13 billion years ago. The
sensational discovery contributes important knowledge about the
universe and is now published in Science.

According to the researcher, the new knowledge contributes to
answering one of humanity's most basic questions.

"One of the most fundamental questions that we humans have always
asked is 'Where do we come from?' Here, we piece together a bit more
of the answer by shedding light on the moment that some of the
universe's first structures were created. It is a process that we'll
investigate further, until hopefully, we are able to fit even more
pieces of the puzzle together," concludes Associate Professor Brammer.
---------------------

Outstanding!    BillK

From msd001 at gmail.com  Fri May 24 00:55:41 2024
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 20:55:41 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Why create something if AI can do better in a few minutes?
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armiULfR6SpNB-GZtWwYsmdfySVaDUnFhAbG9REFchop5qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armjnkjotwNu9RSwVRsrMEQA20C_9YdOnnKNwJoVA_U3nFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <32059d97-c08f-b7bd-76bf-fce2b03a6fe0@swisscows.email>
 <CAOJFdbKofwjnKHjia2ErAob4DECN4MvwQj-bZfqPKs6e40KYzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiULfR6SpNB-GZtWwYsmdfySVaDUnFhAbG9REFchop5qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdbJZ7+MfmHDf7+108vXrpEubCGY+4K7oc608N4t21tLFgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:16 PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 May 2024 at 23:09, Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> > That we aren't granting a social safety net at the same time we are
> removing employment opportunities should be considered an existential risk
> - perhaps less severe than aggressive paperclip maximizes,  but still
> serious.
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> I asked Perplexity to comment on your final sentence.
> The answer was pretty thorough!
> BillK
>
> Perplexity Pro AI -
>
> The statement "We aren't granting a social safety net at the same time
> as AI is removing employment opportunities. This should be considered
> an existential risk - perhaps less severe than aggressive paperclip
> maximizers, but still serious" raises significant concerns about the
> socio-economic impacts of artificial intelligence (AI) and the lack of
> adequate social safety nets to mitigate these impacts.
> Here is a discussion of this statement along with possible solutions:
>
> ## Discussion
>
> ### AI-Induced Job Displacement
> AI has the potential to automate a significant portion of jobs,
> leading to widespread job displacement. According to a report by
> Goldman Sachs, AI could replace the equivalent of 300 million
> full-time jobs, with a quarter of work tasks in the US and Europe
> potentially being automated entirely[5]. This displacement effect is
> validated by empirical studies, which show that AI decreases the level
> of unemployment in high-tech developed countries, but also confirms
> the displacement effect[3].
>
> ### Lack of Social Safety Nets
> The current social safety nets are inadequate to address the rapid
> changes brought about by AI. For instance, the European Union's AI
> regulation has been criticized for not doing enough to protect people
> from flawed algorithms that deprive them of benefits and discriminate
> against vulnerable populations[4]. Additionally, existing policies
> such as trade adjustment assistance in the US do not specifically
> address the challenges posed by technological change and AI[1].
>
> ### Existential Risk
> While the existential risk from AI is often discussed in terms of
> scenarios like the "paperclip maximizer," which involves AI pursuing
> goals misaligned with human values to catastrophic ends[2], the
> socio-economic impacts of AI-induced job displacement also pose a
> serious risk. This risk is not about human extinction but about the
> potential for large-scale social and economic disruption, which could
> lead to increased inequality, social unrest, and a decline in the
> quality of life for many people.
>
> ## Possible Solutions
>
> ### Universal Basic Income (UBI)
> One proposed solution is the implementation of Universal Basic Income
> (UBI). UBI could provide a financial safety net for those displaced by
> AI, ensuring a baseline standard of living. However, there are
> challenges to implementing UBI, such as its affordability and the
> potential need to cut other programs to fund it[1]. Additionally, a
> blanket UBI approach may not address individual socioeconomic
> imbalances effectively.
>
> ### Universal Adjustment Assistance
> Expanding trade adjustment assistance to create a universal adjustment
> assistance program could help workers adapt to technological changes.
> This program would include considerations for retraining and
> reskilling workers displaced by AI, providing them with the
> flexibility to transition to new roles[1].
>
> ### Data Dignity and Compensation
> Monetary compensation for the use of personal data in AI training
> models is another potential solution. This approach would recognize
> the value of individuals' data and provide them with compensation,
> although it may face economic feasibility challenges and might not
> directly mitigate job displacement[1].
>
> ### Improved AI Regulation
> Strengthening AI regulations to better protect individuals from the
> negative impacts of AI is crucial. This includes banning high-risk
> automated systems that pose unacceptable risks to human rights and
> ensuring transparency and accountability in AI decision-making
> processes[4].
>
> ### Investment in Education and Training
> Investing in education and training programs to equip the workforce
> with skills relevant to the AI-driven economy is essential. This
> includes promoting STEM education, lifelong learning, and vocational
> training programs that align with the evolving job market.
>
> ### Social Safety Nets and Welfare Programs
> Enhancing social safety nets and welfare programs to provide
> comprehensive support for those affected by AI-induced job
> displacement is necessary. This includes ensuring access to
> healthcare, housing, and other essential services to maintain a decent
> standard of living.
>
> In conclusion, while the existential risk from AI-induced job
> displacement may not be as severe as scenarios involving aggressive
> paperclip maximizers, it is still a serious issue that requires
> immediate attention and action. Implementing a combination of UBI,
> universal adjustment assistance, improved AI regulation, and
> investment in education and social safety nets can help mitigate the
> socio-economic impacts of AI and ensure a more equitable and resilient
> future.
>
> Citations:
> [1]
> https://www.omfif.org/2024/04/comprehensive-social-safety-nets-required-to-combat-ai-upheaval/
> [2]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_risk_from_artificial_general_intelligence
> [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590051X23000308
> [4]
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/11/10/eu-artificial-intelligence-regulation-threatens-social-safety-net
> [5] https://www.nexford.edu/insights/how-will-ai-affect-jobs
> [6]
> https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2024/01/14/ai-will-transform-the-global-economy-lets-make-sure-it-benefits-humanity
> [7]
> https://dobetter.esade.edu/en/artificial-intelligence-technological-revolution-existential-threat-AI
> [8]
> https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2018/12/10/solutions-to-address-ais-anticipated-negative-impacts/
> [9]
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/imf-managing-director-on-ais-impact-new-social-safety-nets-may-be-needed-231427107.html
> [10]
> https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/13vle3p/statement_on_ai_extinction_signed_by_agi_labs_top/
> [11]
> https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2024/03/is-ai-an-existential-risk-qa-with-rand-experts.html
> [12]
> https://basicincometoday.com/basic-income-and-ai-induced-unemployment/
> [13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNjq-ARo43Q
> [14]
> https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/16/ai-is-coming-for-our-jobs-could-universal-basic-income-be-the-solution
> [15]
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/over-80-jobs-risk-due-ai-becoming-existential-threat-humanity-gi9ke?trk=organization_guest_main-feed-card_feed-article-content
> [16]
> https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/11ada91/d_to_the_ml_researchers_and_practitioners_here_do/
> [17] https://www.safe.ai/ai-risk
> [18]
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/jan/15/ai-jobs-inequality-imf-kristalina-georgieva
> [19]
> https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/uFNgRumrDTpBfQGrs/let-s-think-about-slowing-down-ai
> ---------------------------------------
>

So if instead of an information/keyword -dense sentence (that I wrote)
there is several pages of "more words"  (that AI wrote) ... but I assumed
my audience knew all those info-tokens already; and I would not presume to
explain any of those ideas without being asked for clarification.

If your intent was to test that AI du jour was able to unpack that
density,  then i agree it did cover the gist.  However, there wasn't any
new insight added to the conversation.  If something else,  please do
educate me.

fwiw, I'm not trying to be difficult.   I would like to understand why
people yield the opportunity to participate in social interaction to
overwhelming spew of AI generated parrot chatter.  It's not that I am
unwilling to entertain AI at our dinner table - I'm trying to clarify my
current location in the infoverse and asking for direction to a new
understanding of the neighborhood.

ps. Bottom posted per list convention, untrimmed quote to illustrate the
density disparity

>
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From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May 24 11:19:30 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 12:19:30 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military Bases
Message-ID: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Eric Schmidt?s Alarming Prediction: Future AI Systems to Be Contained
in Military Bases
May 23, 2024   written by Rachelle J. Alley.

<https://www.vpnranks.com/news/eric-schmidts-alarming-prediction-about-future-ai-system/>

Quotes:
Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt has declared that the most powerful AI
systems of the future will need to be contained within military bases
due to their potentially dangerous capabilities. Schmidt stated, ?The
capabilities of these AI systems will be so dangerous that they must
be contained within military bases to prevent misuse or unintended
consequences.?
This sentiment echoes the warnings of other tech visionaries and AI experts.
-----------------------

BillK


From atymes at gmail.com  Fri May 24 11:42:07 2024
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 07:42:07 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
 Bases
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNR5gT9+wE0hJxTuBCPrhFmAg318yvJb8tinLjf_gLqq+w@mail.gmail.com>

If they have access to the Internet, which seems to be a practical
necessity for the "most powerful" AI to have that title (raw computational
power alone not cutting it), how - other than in the mere physical hosting
sense - can they truly be said to be "contained"?

And in the nightmare scenario, would not physical proximity to military
assets make them far more dangerous if on a military base, on the military
side of certain firewalls?

On Fri, May 24, 2024, 7:22?AM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Eric Schmidt?s Alarming Prediction: Future AI Systems to Be Contained
> in Military Bases
> May 23, 2024   written by Rachelle J. Alley.
>
> <
> https://www.vpnranks.com/news/eric-schmidts-alarming-prediction-about-future-ai-system/
> >
>
> Quotes:
> Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt has declared that the most powerful AI
> systems of the future will need to be contained within military bases
> due to their potentially dangerous capabilities. Schmidt stated, ?The
> capabilities of these AI systems will be so dangerous that they must
> be contained within military bases to prevent misuse or unintended
> consequences.?
> This sentiment echoes the warnings of other tech visionaries and AI
> experts.
> -----------------------
>
> BillK
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From spike at rainier66.com  Fri May 24 13:39:26 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 06:39:26 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
 Bases
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004601daaddf$cc4c5dc0$64e51940$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat


Quotes:
>...Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt has declared that the most powerful AI systems of the future will need to be contained within military bases due to their potentially dangerous capabilities...
-----------------------

BillK

_______________________________________________


BillK, if we think that over for a few minutes, we realize it makes perfect sense.  Scary as hell, but I trust the military more than I trust the universities or think tanks.

Eh, on second thought, I don't trust any of them.

spike



From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May 24 14:20:22 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 15:20:22 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
 Bases
In-Reply-To: <004601daaddf$cc4c5dc0$64e51940$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <004601daaddf$cc4c5dc0$64e51940$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armi1SpVbLV3FzNcXCrZgKH5A5OW3z-Q2NsVQ2qSHDG=DxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 24 May 2024 at 14:39, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> BillK, if we think that over for a few minutes, we realize it makes perfect sense.  Scary as hell, but I trust the military more than I trust the universities or think tanks.
>
> Eh, on second thought, I don't trust any of them.
>
> spike
>---------------------------------------------


Perhaps Schmidt is mainly trying to get people to pay attention to how
dangerous a powerful AI might become.
And, yes, connecting it to the internet is risky, but probably necessary.

I think it all depends on what level of "powerful" AI we are talking about.
If it is an advanced AGI, then it is too late. It will have already
copied itself into computers around the world and be making its own
plans on what happens next.

If it less than AGI, then the problem is stopping it from misbehaving
(i.e. unaligned to our values). The military have the equipment to
destroy an AI that is endangering them. More destructive than private
companies wondering whether they should press the big red "OFF"
button.

Then there is also the concern of powerful AIs in other countries that
are not friendly to the West. Will their AIs go wild? They may be
thinking that they don't mind bad behaviour of their AIs, provided
that it is directed towards the West countries. There are rumours
about foreign AIs already helping with internet attacks and criminal
behaviour.

Interesting times, Eh?


BillK

From spike at rainier66.com  Fri May 24 15:07:47 2024
From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 08:07:47 -0700
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
 Bases
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armi1SpVbLV3FzNcXCrZgKH5A5OW3z-Q2NsVQ2qSHDG=DxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <004601daaddf$cc4c5dc0$64e51940$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armi1SpVbLV3FzNcXCrZgKH5A5OW3z-Q2NsVQ2qSHDG=DxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801daadec$2445c410$6cd14c30$@rainier66.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of
BillK via extropy-chat
Subject: Re: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
Bases

On Fri, 24 May 2024 at 14:39, <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
> BillK, if we think that over for a few minutes, we realize it makes
perfect sense.  Scary as hell, but I trust the military more than I trust
the universities or think tanks.
>
> Eh, on second thought, I don't trust any of them.
>
> spike
>---------------------------------------------


>...Perhaps Schmidt is mainly trying to get people to pay attention to how
dangerous a powerful AI might become.
And, yes, connecting it to the internet is risky, but probably necessary.

...

>...Interesting times, Eh?


BillK
_______________________________________________


Hi BillK,

The military already knows how to build a one-way internet highway, so that
information can be sent into a secure facility across a firewall, but the
possibly-malicious AI within cannot get back across (assuming the operators
do their jobs right of course.)  There is still search capability, limited
by necessary security protocols, but it can be done, and is done now in some
applications.

spike


From atymes at gmail.com  Fri May 24 16:32:05 2024
From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 12:32:05 -0400
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
 Bases
In-Reply-To: <005801daadec$2445c410$6cd14c30$@rainier66.com>
References: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <004601daaddf$cc4c5dc0$64e51940$@rainier66.com>
 <CAL_armi1SpVbLV3FzNcXCrZgKH5A5OW3z-Q2NsVQ2qSHDG=DxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <005801daadec$2445c410$6cd14c30$@rainier66.com>
Message-ID: <CALAdGNRq=a0gi0_q+hx8832EmUxXtNEMAajCytmo3+2aFHnWjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 24, 2024, 11:10?AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> The military already knows how to build a one-way internet highway, so that
> information can be sent into a secure facility across a firewall, but the
> possibly-malicious AI within cannot get back across (assuming the operators
> do their jobs right of course.)  There is still search capability, limited
> by necessary security protocols, but it can be done, and is done now in
> some
> applications.
>

Any search capability needs to send out what you are searching for.  One
trick is to encode search data, getting past whatever censors and
sanitizers are in place, and aim it to places that act on such data.  Good
censors and sanitizers prevent this as much as possible, so another trick -
if the attacker has any influence on this - is to try to arrange for low
quality "security theater" instead, that an expert attacker can easily
bypass.

>
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From hartreef at hotmail.com  Fri May 24 18:26:23 2024
From: hartreef at hotmail.com (Kyle Webb)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 18:26:23 +0000
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military
 Bases
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armj__QOWw5kqxgP-iWNBoKGbw8teyZB5T=b36ek=_2mp0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CYXPR84MB343179CB4BAD9905B673D496D4F52@CYXPR84MB3431.NAMPRD84.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

This can be summed up as "How to tell me in one sentence that you either don't know jack about physical and organizational security, or are just making a feel good statement for public consumption."

Let alone that to an AI, communication channels, be it normal network or covert channels are at least as important as physical security. This is either for it escaping, or it being attacked by an adversary.

There's nothing magic about a "military base". They tend to have security appropriate to what's on them. There are locations on many of them that are very secure, but other locations you can often just drive to without even an ID check. Open bases are less common now than in the 1980s when I was living on them but are still a thing.

Some of the most secure facilities are specifically not military. The Pantex plant which stores/services nuclear weapons is not military though they have armed security. It's managed by DOE and that is in some ways as a separation of power between agencies for something that sensitive. The Russians also have separate agencies for storing/making and using nuclear weapons.

Any of several Federal Reserve Back locations are very secure against intrusion or removing what's stored there.

So, let's file this under being "poetry" rather than a serious idea.

Kyle Webb
________________________________
From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> on behalf of BillK via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 6:19 AM
To: Extropy Chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Cc: BillK <pharos at gmail.com>
Subject: [ExI] Future Powerful AI Systems to Be Contained in Military Bases

Eric Schmidt?s Alarming Prediction: Future AI Systems to Be Contained
in Military Bases
May 23, 2024   written by Rachelle J. Alley.

<https://www.vpnranks.com/news/eric-schmidts-alarming-prediction-about-future-ai-system/>

Quotes:
Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt has declared that the most powerful AI
systems of the future will need to be contained within military bases
due to their potentially dangerous capabilities. Schmidt stated, ?The
capabilities of these AI systems will be so dangerous that they must
be contained within military bases to prevent misuse or unintended
consequences.?
This sentiment echoes the warnings of other tech visionaries and AI experts.
-----------------------

BillK

_______________________________________________
extropy-chat mailing list
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
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From pharos at gmail.com  Sat May 25 10:30:21 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 11:30:21 +0100
Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?Elon_Musk_Predicts_Future_Where_=E2=80=9D_None_O?=
	=?utf-8?q?f_Us_Will_Have_A_Job=E2=80=9D?=
Message-ID: <CAL_armh77NL0MXXbUvb-1iq2_NzOnRuESvPAzjWqApLwsLsWtA@mail.gmail.com>

Elon Musk Predicts Future Where ? None Of Us Will Have A Job? ?
Promotes Universal High Income
May 24, 2024    By Giuseppe Ciccomascolo

<https://www.ccn.com/news/technology/elon-musk-predicts-no-job-universal-high-income/>
Quote:
Speaking via webcam at a tech conference in Paris, tech billionaire
Elon Musk expressed concerns about AI?s future impact, suggesting that
?probably none of us will have a job? as AI develops and grows.

?If you want to do a job that?s kind of like a hobby, you can do a
job,? Musk said. ?But otherwise, AI and robots will provide any goods
and services that you want.?

AI Role In Musk?s Vision
Musk predicts that AI will eventually cancel all jobs. However, he
also believes that this development might not be entirely negative. He
sees a future where having a job would be ?optional,? so that people
could pursue work out of interest rather than necessity.

Tesla?s founder also mentioned that AI will provide unprecedented
educational opportunities, saying, ?I think everyone will have access
to this magic genie, and you can ask any question. It?ll certainly be
bigger for education. It?ll be the best tutor.? Musk predicted that
this future would bring an age of abundance of goods and services.
--------------------

BillK


From msd001 at gmail.com  Sat May 25 14:49:54 2024
From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 25 May 2024 10:49:54 -0400
Subject: [ExI] 
	=?utf-8?q?Elon_Musk_Predicts_Future_Where_=E2=80=9D_None_O?=
	=?utf-8?q?f_Us_Will_Have_A_Job=E2=80=9D?=
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armh77NL0MXXbUvb-1iq2_NzOnRuESvPAzjWqApLwsLsWtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armh77NL0MXXbUvb-1iq2_NzOnRuESvPAzjWqApLwsLsWtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOJFdbKYAeVeokqPYs0bHqsbeqP8+sjWwgAuaQW2wuQbVdyN6g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 25, 2024, 6:34 AM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Elon Musk Predicts Future Where ? None Of Us Will Have A Job? ?
> Promotes Universal High Income
> May 24, 2024    By Giuseppe Ciccomascolo
>
> <
> https://www.ccn.com/news/technology/elon-musk-predicts-no-job-universal-high-income/
> >
>

Isn't this old news ?

Why does Elon Musk warrant so much boost for saying stuff we already
understood 20 years ago?

>
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From interzone at gmail.com  Tue May 28 02:47:36 2024
From: interzone at gmail.com (Dylan Distasio)
Date: Mon, 27 May 2024 22:47:36 -0400
Subject: [ExI] 1 mm^3 of brain
In-Reply-To: <CAL_armjae-s+Z5CGH88GVPzSk+s3BLVY6reyMyUwtgSSHuqhvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71833444d8cd219cbbaf80eb00b5ac2b@sollegro.com>
 <CAL_armh_bNHdCrjFOLxrTPgknNkT+GGrHEshQ=BxyPnYFKvUHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEptUkQhoUz+qd1=8UJyWtv7FpUww2fo4Y7r+z2roenyBH2BKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiDP466aKrwxsiqc4U8RUXcYGs5mCrisPKWRwCR_QZBQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+BCJUjGUxpO0rp3AbiKmNdi+XLAzeKiPsMFS6aoNYW7wKAsNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armiU8jq6ZAcQosv8Tpq-7oNDV8i6XgVwGBFb-86AZQyNtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKrqSyH5ZDEWDUgiDMNGrV93S69a1Ng92oAwXyUF_CSzH5UuaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL_armjae-s+Z5CGH88GVPzSk+s3BLVY6reyMyUwtgSSHuqhvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJrqPH8=T=OCARbxnjJms0bt-Sfq6URqekLwkiBU6C8g8aGViA@mail.gmail.com>

A different take from another AI (GPT-4o):
is the human genome inherently compressed data

The human genome can be thought of as inherently compressed in a biological
sense because it uses a highly efficient system to store genetic
information. Here are a few key points to understand this concept:

   1.

   DNA Structure: The human genome consists of DNA, which is composed of
   four nucleotides (adenine, thymine, cytosine, and guanine). The sequence of
   these nucleotides encodes the genetic information.
   2.

   Coding vs. Non-coding Regions: Only a small portion of the genome (about
   1-2%) actually codes for proteins. The rest consists of non-coding regions,
   some of which have regulatory functions, while others are less understood
   or considered "junk" DNA. This means that a large portion of the genome
   does not directly contribute to the coding of proteins, suggesting an
   efficient way to store information where not all sequences are equally
   critical.
   3.

   Genetic Redundancy and Repetitive Elements: The human genome contains
   many repetitive elements and sequences. Some sequences are repeated
   multiple times throughout the genome, and there are mechanisms to use these
   repetitions efficiently, akin to data compression in computational terms.
   4.

   Chromatin Structure: DNA is wrapped around histone proteins to form
   nucleosomes, which further coil and fold into higher-order structures. This
   packaging not only helps to fit the large amount of DNA into the nucleus
   but also regulates gene expression and access to genetic information.
   5.

   Epigenetic Regulation: Beyond the nucleotide sequence, epigenetic
   modifications (such as DNA methylation and histone modification) provide
   additional layers of information and regulation without altering the
   underlying DNA sequence. This can be viewed as another form of data
   compression, where additional information is overlaid on the genetic code.

While these biological mechanisms are not compression in the digital sense,
they represent ways the genome efficiently stores and regulates vast
amounts of information.

On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:20?PM BillK via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 20 May 2024 at 15:26, Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> > @john: the human genome IS compressed data.
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> Hi Will
>
> Genetic researchers can compress the human genome.
> BillK
>
> I asked -
> Is the human genome already compressed data, or can it be stored in a
> compressed format?
>
> Perplexity Pro AI -
>
> The human genome is not inherently compressed data, but it can be stored
> in a compressed format. The vast amount of genomic data generated by modern
> sequencing technologies necessitates efficient storage solutions, and
> various specialized compression algorithms have been developed to address
> this need.
>
> ### Compression Methods for Genomic Data
>
> 1. **SparkGC**:
>    - SparkGC is an Apache Spark-based genome compression method designed
> to handle large collections of genomes efficiently. It uses Resilient
> Distributed Datasets (RDD) transformations to keep data active in memory
> throughout the compression process, significantly improving compression
> speed and scalability. SparkGC can compress 1100 human genomes on a common
> computer with just 24 GB of RAM, achieving the best compression ratio among
> state-of-the-art methods[1].
>
> 2. **Lossless DNA Compression Algorithm**:
>    - This method specializes in compressing nucleotide sequence data in
> FASTA/multi-FASTA formats. It separates the headers and uses 7-Zip for
> compression, achieving a high compression ratio by leveraging the specific
> characteristics of DNA sequences[2].
>
> 3. **LZ77 and CTW Algorithms**:
>    - A method combining the LZ77 algorithm with the context tree weighting
> (CTW) algorithm has been proposed to compress DNA data. This approach first
> converts DNA sequences into intermediate files before applying LZ77,
> resulting in significant reductions in compression and decompression times
> while maintaining a high compression rate[3].
>
> 4. **Neural Network-Based Compression (GeCo3)**:
>    - GeCo3 uses a neural network metamodel to improve the compression
> ratio of DNA sequences. It benchmarks both reference-free and referential
> compression, showing consistent improvements over other state-of-the-art
> DNA compressors. This method is particularly useful for long-term storage
> and sequence analysis[4].
>
> 5. **FQSqueezer**:
>    - FQSqueezer is a novel algorithm for compressing sequencing data,
> particularly FASTQ files. It uses prediction by partial matching (PPM) and
> dynamic Markov coder (DMC) algorithms, achieving better compression ratios
> than existing tools. However, it requires significant memory and time
> resources[5].
>
> ### Conclusion
>
> The human genome can indeed be stored in a compressed format using
> specialized algorithms designed to handle the unique characteristics of
> genomic data. These methods significantly reduce the storage requirements
> and improve the efficiency of data handling in genomic research and
> applications.
>
> Citations:
> [1]
> https://bmcbioinformatics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12859-022-04825-5
> [2] https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4893/13/4/99
> [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7688149/
> [4] https://academic.oup.com/gigascience/article/9/11/giaa119/5974977
> [5] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-57452-6
> [6]
> https://bmcbioinformatics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12859-023-05500-z
> [7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9337911/
> [8] https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/637gyu/is_dna_compressed/
> [9] https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.02232
> [10] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666389922001738
> [11]
> https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/genetics/articles/10.3389/fgene.2023.1260531/full
> [12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_of_genomic_sequencing_data
> [13] https://github.com/rajatdiptabiswas/dna-compression
> [14] https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.14025
> [15] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050916318762
> [16]
> https://www.illumina.com/documents/products/whitepapers/whitepaper_datacompression.pdf
> [17] https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.01431
> [18]
> https://blog.chiariglione.org/genome-is-digital-and-can-be-compressed/
> [19] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37018338/
> [20]
> https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-021-02443-7
> ------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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From avant at sollegro.com  Wed May 29 20:20:52 2024
From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge)
Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 13:20:52 -0700
Subject: [ExI] 
 =?utf-8?q?Elon_Musk_Predicts_Future_Where_=E2=80=9D_None_O?=
 =?utf-8?q?f_Us_Will_Have_A_Job=E2=80=9D?=
In-Reply-To: <CAOJFdbKYAeVeokqPYs0bHqsbeqP8+sjWwgAuaQW2wuQbVdyN6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL_armh77NL0MXXbUvb-1iq2_NzOnRuESvPAzjWqApLwsLsWtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOJFdbKYAeVeokqPYs0bHqsbeqP8+sjWwgAuaQW2wuQbVdyN6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59f6711168ce59584c6bbadd02faa6e6@sollegro.com>

On 2024-05-25 07:49, Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat wrote:
> On Sat, May 25, 2024, 6:34 AM BillK via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
>> Elon Musk Predicts Future Where ? None Of Us Will Have A Job?
>> ?
>> Promotes Universal High Income
>> May 24, 2024    By Giuseppe Ciccomascolo
>> 
>> 
> <https://www.ccn.com/news/technology/elon-musk-predicts-no-job-universal-high-income/>
> 
> Isn't this old news ?
> 
> Why does Elon Musk warrant so much boost for saying stuff we already
> understood 20 years ago?

Probably because as someone who runs multiple companies, Musk is seen as 
an industry leader, employer, and creator of jobs. When a major employer 
implies that he won't be employing people in the future, the press is 
more likely to listen to him than they would some academic.

Stuart LaForge

From avant at sollegro.com  Thu May 30 02:07:24 2024
From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge)
Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 19:07:24 -0700
Subject: [ExI] AI finds Dyson sphere candidates
Message-ID: <dd4281e7ec7c0c628d617eda7f792ecf@sollegro.com>

A recent paper reported on a project called Hephaistos that used a 
convolutional neural network (CNN) to sift through the spectral data of 
5 million stars in the Gaia satellite database for stars with very high 
infrared emissions relative to visible light. The AI found 7 candidates 
for closer study.

https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/531/1/695/7665761?login=false

ABSTRACT
The search for extraterrestrial intelligence is currently being pursued 
using multiple techniques and in different wavelength bands. Dyson 
spheres, megastructures that could be constructed by advanced 
civilizations to harness the radiation energy of their host stars, 
represent a potential technosignature, that in principle may be hiding 
in public data already collected as part of large astronomical surveys. 
In this study, we present a comprehensive search for partial Dyson 
spheres by analysing optical and infrared observations from Gaia, 2MASS, 
and WISE. We develop a pipeline that employs multiple filters to 
identify potential candidates and reject interlopers in a sample of five 
million objects, which incorporates a convolutional neural network to 
help identify confusion in WISE data. Finally, the pipeline identifies 
seven candidates deserving of further analysis. All of these objects are 
M-dwarfs, for which astrophysical phenomena cannot easily account for 
the observed infrared excess emission.
-------------------------------------------------

I wonder if there is any overlap between these candidates and Schmidt's 
cluster of Boyajian-like dimming stars. I hope these guys get time on 
the JWST to take a closer look.

Stuart LaForge


From nebathenemi at yahoo.co.uk  Thu May 30 22:14:25 2024
From: nebathenemi at yahoo.co.uk (Tom Nowell)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 22:14:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ExI] Geoengineering termination shock from SO2 reduction in
 shipping fuel
References: <47419736.30520.1717107265856.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47419736.30520.1717107265856@mail.yahoo.com>

Facebook ads gave me a targeted ad from nature to promote this open access article?Abrupt reduction in shipping emission as an inadvertent geoengineering termination shock produces substantial radiative warming | Communications Earth & Environment (nature.com)?Cited as:?Yuan, T., Song, H., Oreopoulos, L.?et al.?Abrupt reduction in shipping emission as an inadvertent geoengineering termination shock produces substantial radiative warming.?Commun Earth Environ?5, 281 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s43247-024-01442-3
Here's the abstract:Humanactivities affect the Earth?s climate through modifying the composition of the atmosphere, which then creates radiative forcing that drives climate change. The warming effect of anthropogenic greenhouse gases has been partially balanced by the cooling effect of anthropogenic aerosols. In 2020, fuel regulations abruptly reduced the emission of sulfur dioxide from international shipping by about 80% and created an inadvertent geoengineering termination shock with global impact.Here we estimate the regulation leads to a radiative forcing of ?0:2?0:11Wm?2 averaged over the global ocean. The amount of radiative forcing could lead to a doubling (or more) of the warming rate in the 2020s compared with the rate since 1980 with strong spatiotemporal heterogeneity. The warming effect is consistent with the recent observed strong warming in 2023 and expected to make the 2020s anomalously warm. The forcing is equivalent in magnitude to 80% of the measured increase in planetary heat uptake since 2020. The radiative forcing also has strong hemispheric contrast, which has important implications for precipitation pattern changes. Our result suggests marine cloud brightening may be a viable geoengineering method in temporarily cooling the climate that has its unique challenges due to inherent spatiotemporal heterogeneity.

It appears that marine diesel, that thick mass of near-bitumen used to power global shipping, was up to 3.5% sulphur until recently. I'm not surprised we finally brought in regulations to make the fuel less filthy and cut down on acid rain, but it appears this is decreasing the cooling effect of shipping trails. Anyway, as this list has many who like discussing geo-engineering I thought this would be interesting.
Tom
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From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May 31 00:00:35 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2024 01:00:35 +0100
Subject: [ExI] Geoengineering termination shock from SO2 reduction in
 shipping fuel
In-Reply-To: <47419736.30520.1717107265856@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <47419736.30520.1717107265856.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <47419736.30520.1717107265856@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_armgLPPnjfQPytC_CbBrJaFVWu4ZimOLeQ5VtxNyFhm-DUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 30 May 2024 at 23:17, Tom Nowell via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Facebook ads gave me a targeted ad from nature to promote this open access article Abrupt reduction in shipping emission as an inadvertent geoengineering termination shock produces substantial radiative warming | Communications Earth & Environment (nature.com)
> Cited as: Yuan, T., Song, H., Oreopoulos, L. et al. Abrupt reduction in shipping emission as an inadvertent geoengineering termination shock produces substantial radiative warming. Commun Earth Environ 5, 281 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s43247-024-01442-3
>
<snip>
>
> It appears that marine diesel, that thick mass of near-bitumen used to power global shipping, was up to 3.5% sulphur until recently. I'm not surprised we finally brought in regulations to make the fuel less filthy and cut down on acid rain, but it appears this is decreasing the cooling effect of shipping trails. Anyway, as this list has many who like discussing geo-engineering I thought this would be interesting.
>
> Tom
> _______________________________________________


It appears to be the Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.
Yes, it is good to reduce atmosphere pollution, but clearer air
increases climate warming.
This applies to all atmosphere pollution, not just marine diesel.

(Though there are some critics saying that this report exaggerates the
effect in this case).
See:
<https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-sulphur-reductions-in-shipping-fuel-and-increased-maritime-warming/>


BillK


From pharos at gmail.com  Fri May 31 22:11:56 2024
From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK)
Date: Fri, 31 May 2024 23:11:56 +0100
Subject: [ExI] New Design of interstellar warp drive
Message-ID: <CAL_armitFkxyXaw9nLLiN5eV4anks0Pxnyb-229PBnT960u+0A@mail.gmail.com>

A Groundbreaking Scientific Discovery Just Gave Humanity the Keys to
Interstellar Travel.
In a first, this warp drive actually obeys the laws of physics.
By Manasee Wagh    Published: May 29, 2024

<https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a60941082/light-speed-warp-drive-breakthrough/>

The Alcubierre drive has a glaring problem: the force behind its
operation, called ?negative energy,? involves exotic
particles?hypothetical matter that, as far as we know, doesn?t exist
in our universe. And faster-than-light travel is impossible.

But a new proposal allows for up-to-light-speed warp drive. So, still
impossible at present, but researchers are hopeful.  :)

Interesting article!

BillK