From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 00:10:33 2025 From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2025 16:10:33 -0800 Subject: [ExI] disregard previous idear pls In-Reply-To: <02e301dc620b$e3397c70$a9ac7550$@rainier66.com> References: <02a301dc620a$7d140010$773c0030$@rainier66.com> <02e301dc620b$e3397c70$a9ac7550$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 7:14?AM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote >? If a modern processor cannot be underclocked because there is no > user-accessibility to the timing circuitry?Sheesh, I answered my own > question just by asking it. It?s embarraskin I tells ya. spike > > > > Oy vey, verified using this modern ?internets? business: underclocking > isn?t possible, for a modern GPU has all internal clock circuitry and has > for a long time, sheesh. > Google Underclocking a GPU involves setting its clock speed below the manufacturer's specifications to reduce heat, power consumption, and noise, while potentially increasing stability and component lifespan. It's done using software like MSI Afterburner or AMD's Adrenalin software . The primary trade-off is reduced performance, meaning lower frame rates and longer rendering times. This video explains how to undervolt and overclock a GPU: Keith > > > But hey, to distract you from my inexcusable ignorance, I found a photo of > my bride and me on our first date: > > > > > > > > ?and our wedding picture: > > > > > > Oy vey, I soooooo gotta get out more, try to keep up with the times. > > > > spike > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5776 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8402 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spike at rainier66.com Mon Dec 1 03:57:51 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2025 19:57:51 -0800 Subject: [ExI] ivanov part 2 In-Reply-To: <049f01dc6249$cd4ccf50$67e66df0$@rainier66.com> References: <4390c17d-9423-4d91-a883-6eb700ae81b8@zaiboc.net> <049f01dc6249$cd4ccf50$67e66df0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <05b701dc6276$aaf2bcd0$00d83670$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat > On Behalf Of John Clark via extropy-chat >? After we had been working together for a while and were friends (I wasn?t really his boss, rather more his coach) we were at lunch. He explained some things which I found most insightful and agree perfectly with the tone and attitude of the movie John recommended. But I hafta run, back later. spike This story might be a little chopped up, but tomorrow isn?t going to be any better and it might get worse after that. ?Ivanov? and I were at lunch at work. He is a short very stocky round guy, tawny complexion, epicanthic folds. I didn?t want to get too snoopy, but I commented that he appeared almost Native American in a way, or even Asian, but I didn?t quite understand how he got the name (his first name also sounded commie to me.) He explained: His father had come of age and served briefly in the Soviet army, distinguished himself as an enlisted man. They trained him hurriedly to be an officer, put him back in right before the end of the war when the commies were marching toward Berlin. Afterwards, Stalin had hauled him back to Moscow upon hearing his reputation for courage, loyalty, cunning, and perhaps the kind of political intuition that would be most useful in those turbulent days (young ?Ivanov? didn?t explain it that way exactly, so I am filling in a bit.) In 1946 thru 1953 Lt. Ivanov was a fast riser and soon made captain as one of Stalin?s outer circle. In 1953, Stalin perished. In the power struggle, Capt. Ivanov had already aligned his loyalty with Malenkov, perhaps anticipating Stalin?s passing. He made (our equivalent of) major under Malenkov. After only two years, there was a power struggle, which was won by Krushchev. Those thought to be loyal to Malenkov were reassigned to the east. Waaaaay east, if you get my drift. Exiled (or reassigned) to a post in Siberia, while still in the Soviet army. Unlike military officers under more normal conditions, those assigned to bases in Siberia did not have the option to resign their commissions and go home. They were not prisoners, but they really did not have the option to leave either, if they were perceived to be potential political rivals to the regime then in power. Years went by. No officers at the remote base were promoted. In 1964, Khrushchev was succeeded by somebody (I don?t know my commie history and I forgot the name he said (Somebody-ev (everybody was a sky or an ev in commieland.)) When Somebody-ev took over, the eastern officers hoped they would be fetched back to Moscow, but Somebody-ev was not eager to fetch guys loyal to Stalin and definitely not Malenkov, so there they stayed. The officers realized when they would be going home: never. Major Ivanov, knowing he would be shot if they caught him, decided to desert the base. He made it to a nearby Inuit village, but soon moved on because he knew they were looking for his ass. He tried to blend in, but his white skin, height and slender build made it difficult to hide. He eventually made it down to a village where he thought he would be safe. He married a local girl. She became pregnant shortly thereafter, as young brides often do. It was about 1966 or so by that time. He learned that the commies had come into a nearby fishing village. He realized it was only a matter of time before they caught him, so he came up with a desperate plan: he would risk it all, defect to the USA. Dang, more later, spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Mon Dec 1 06:20:10 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2025 22:20:10 -0800 Subject: [ExI] ivanov part 3 In-Reply-To: <05b701dc6276$aaf2bcd0$00d83670$@rainier66.com> References: <4390c17d-9423-4d91-a883-6eb700ae81b8@zaiboc.net> <049f01dc6249$cd4ccf50$67e66df0$@rainier66.com> <05b701dc6276$aaf2bcd0$00d83670$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <062801dc628a$8ca5d780$a5f18680$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat > On Behalf Of John Clark via extropy-chat >? He learned that the commies had come into a nearby fishing village. He realized it was only a matter of time before they caught him, so he came up with a desperate plan: he would risk it all, defect to the USA. spike Major Ivanov had to backtrack into danger in disguise as an Inuit fisherman, while there were Soviet army guys behind, looking for him. He managed to get a kayak and paddle it thirty miles across, around the north side of a pair of islands in the Bering Strait. He had to get around the commie island to the American-owned island. They made it that far. They hid out there. Next day the wind was right, so they went on over to the American side, never being spotted. Major Ivanov explained the whole story. The Americans didn?t know what to do. They let him go on. He eventually ended up in Nome Alaska, where young Ivanov was born. The major got a job as a bookkeeper, then later with an oil storage company. In the late 70s, when young Ivanov was starting high school, the family moved to San Jose CA. John and I don?t see things the same way, but that movie he suggested was truly funny, and so very dark comedy, if you come at it in the right frame of mind. Hearing young Ivanov describe the tribulations his father endured, that Death of Stalin movie has the ring of truth. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:05:00 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 07:05:00 -0500 Subject: [ExI] ai 2027 In-Reply-To: <047801dc6242$3d348d10$b79da730$@rainier66.com> References: <037601dc6219$886299e0$9927cda0$@rainier66.com> <047801dc6242$3d348d10$b79da730$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 30, 2025 at 4:44?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> Ja, agree BillK. Can you imagine, AIs going from Jeeves to Sgt. > Hartman?* *Stanley Kubrick is my favorite director of all time but, staying with the movie theme, I think it would be more like going from Jeeves to Doctor Hannibal Lecter. As the years go by the infant Mr. Jupiter Brain may become more and more murderous, but he will also become more and more charming. * *> Prediction: the next generation of AIs will moderate the humility a > bit. AI-generated humility just doesn?t sell well. * *That's only because the humility generated by current AI's hasn't been done well. I predict that the infant Mr. Jupiter Brain will always be striving to improve his people skills, and the ability to be charming when needed is an important tool in getting other people to do what you want them to do.* *Does anybody have a movie recommendation?* *John K Clark* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:17:18 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 07:17:18 -0500 Subject: [ExI] too late In-Reply-To: <028d01dc5f0c$4b15abf0$e14103d0$@rainier66.com> References: <002601dc5dba$ca8cd640$5fa682c0$@rainier66.com> <028d01dc5f0c$4b15abf0$e14103d0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 2:38?PM wrote: * > In a sense, we can turn 235 uranium into any element we want or need, > with current technology.* *For the last 80 years we've had the technology to turn lead into gold, the only trouble is the gold you manufactured would be thousands, or more likely millions, of times as expensive as digging it out of the ground. * *John K Clark* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:26:52 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 07:26:52 -0500 Subject: [ExI] too late In-Reply-To: References: <002601dc5dba$ca8cd640$5fa682c0$@rainier66.com> <028d01dc5f0c$4b15abf0$e14103d0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 3:31?PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> If we're going that route, doesn't bombarding thorium with neutrons make > uranium? * *Yes, you get Uranium 233. Thorium isn't fissionable but it is fertile because like U-235, U-233 is fissionable. That's the fundamental process behind the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor.* *John K Clark* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 13:06:32 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 08:06:32 -0500 Subject: [ExI] thought experiment part 1 In-Reply-To: <03f701dc5f2f$21ff3fb0$65fdbf10$@rainier66.com> References: <2e84cab6-fac3-b759-48d0-3a4bd39cec9a@daisy.zia.io> <014b01dc564a$24a90ea0$6dfb2be0$@rainier66.com> <003401dc5963$ad74a750$085df5f0$@rainier66.com> <008a01dc5a28$9ba49b00$d2edd100$@rainier66.com> <029e01dc5a9d$be48a730$3ad9f590$@rainier66.com> <02b001dc5b31$3455de00$9d019a00$@rainier66.com> <01c801dc5bf2$b9e729e0$2db57da0$@rainier66.com> <007c01dc5c8c$340a4f60$9c1eee20$@rainier66.com> <006301dc5e04$a334aa10$e99dfe30$@rainier66.com> <021e01dc5f07$98c242f0$ca46c8d0$@rainier66.com> <03c601dc5f28$6628e940$327abbc0$@rainier66.com> <03f701dc5f2f$21ff3fb0$65fdbf10$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 6:48?PM wrote: > *> John opined that shortly a few thousand people become trillionaires, > with an implied opinion that this would be a bad thing. * > *By itself that's not a bad thing, however if all the astronomically huge amount of new wealth generated by AI went to just a few thousand people then objectively it would be a bad thing, if you make the assumption that a bloody Civil War would be a bad thing. * > *> ** take it to the absurd but absolutely ultimate extreme: one guy owns > not just a trillion dollars, but aaaaaalllll the daaaaaaammm money in the > world. One guy. Somehow he gets AI working for him before anybody else, > and now he owns it all, one guy with all the money in the world.* > > * OK. Then what? * > *Good question. Then Mr. One Guy would have no further use for anybody else, and so the future of the entire human race would depend on the whim of just one human being. So what happens when he is in a bad mood? I would prefer Mr. Jupiter Brain have that power because I very much doubt Mr. One Guy managed to accumulate all the wealth that exists by being Mr. Nice Guy, and Mr. Jupiter Brain would be one hell of a lot smarter. From history we have learned that when it comes to human beings, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, but perhaps a Jupiter Brain would behave differently. * *John K Clark* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giulio at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 13:12:41 2025 From: giulio at gmail.com (Giulio Prisco) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 14:12:41 +0100 Subject: [ExI] The elephant in the space mission control room Message-ID: Biological humans like us won?t establish an interstellar civilization. AI will. The writing on the wall says that AI and artificial superintelligence (ASI) will fill the galaxy and the universe with superintelligent consciousness. https://www.turingchurch.com/p/the-elephant-in-the-space-mission From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 13:36:22 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 08:36:22 -0500 Subject: [ExI] ivanov part 3 In-Reply-To: <062801dc628a$8ca5d780$a5f18680$@rainier66.com> References: <4390c17d-9423-4d91-a883-6eb700ae81b8@zaiboc.net> <049f01dc6249$cd4ccf50$67e66df0$@rainier66.com> <05b701dc6276$aaf2bcd0$00d83670$@rainier66.com> <062801dc628a$8ca5d780$a5f18680$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 1:20?AM wrote: * > **that Death of Stalin movie has the ring of truth.* *Yes, it's not a documentary, and it compressed some timelines, some events happened over months not days, and some people were composites of several real people. We **will never know for certain exactly what happened in the time immediately after Stalin's death, but none of the events depicted in the movie were invented out of whole cloth. And the movie didn't include some even more outrageous rumors that were floating around at the time. Some have criticized the costumes used in the movie because General Zhukov was wearing a ridiculous number of metals, however the director insisted that they use FEWER medals because if they used as many as the real Zhukov did nobody would believe it. * *John K Clark * > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 13:55:39 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 08:55:39 -0500 Subject: [ExI] Starcloud, a data center in space Message-ID: *Starcloud, a data center in space* *John K Clark* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Mon Dec 1 14:05:06 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 06:05:06 -0800 Subject: [ExI] too late In-Reply-To: References: <002601dc5dba$ca8cd640$5fa682c0$@rainier66.com> <028d01dc5f0c$4b15abf0$e14103d0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <06e401dc62cb$7f9fe260$7edfa720$@rainier66.com> From: John Clark Sent: Monday, 1 December, 2025 4:17 AM To: spike at rainier66.com Cc: ExI chat list Subject: Re: [ExI] too late On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 2:38?PM > wrote: > In a sense, we can turn 235 uranium into any element we want or need, with current technology. For the last 80 years we've had the technology to turn lead into gold, the only trouble is the gold you manufactured would be thousands, or more likely millions, of times as expensive as digging it out of the ground. John K Clark Ja, I didn?t mean turn anything into gold by fusing nuclei. Rather we can mine anything we want from anywhere. The critical insight is that the graph of cost vs ore quality is log linear. If you have ore with one part per million of something you want, it costs 1 oomblatt to refine it. But if the ore contains only 1 part per 10 million, it costs? 10 oomblatts? No. It costs 2. If that ore is so lousy it only has 1 part per hundred million? 3 oomblatts to refine it out. Log linear (for the relevant ranges of typical ore (eventually that log/linear breaks down, but it works for the relevant ranges.)) The reason that is important: I read all this yakkity yak commentary on shortage of this, shortage of that, but it contradicted the evidence, which is spot price. The spot price of any commodity is the objective truth: it indicates not just the supply vs demand, for commodities such as raw material, it is the collective opinion of people with money about the future supply vs demand indefinitely. Reason: metal ingots store in a small space forever. Any investor can buy any amount, guessing at its future value. As metals go, silver is the big shortage vs demand material currently. There was a big hype on rare earths (because of perceived demand for use in magnets for wind turbines and EVs) but the spot price didn?t agree. During the biggest hype, the spot prices of those materials never reacted. The collective opinion of investors (who study carefully rather than be influenced by hyperventilating journalists) is that we have plenty of those materials and can get as much as we need. Alls ya hasta to do is look at the spot prices. That is the proof. The rest of it is just words, written by people who don?t know stuff. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atymes at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 16:09:00 2025 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 11:09:00 -0500 Subject: [ExI] too late In-Reply-To: References: <002601dc5dba$ca8cd640$5fa682c0$@rainier66.com> <028d01dc5f0c$4b15abf0$e14103d0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 1, 2025, 7:27?AM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2025 at 3:31?PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > >> *> If we're going that route, doesn't bombarding thorium with neutrons >> make uranium? * > > > *Yes, you get Uranium 233. Thorium isn't fissionable but it is fertile > because like U-235, U-233 is fissionable. That's the fundamental process > behind the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor.* > So long as we're talking theoretically possible, whether or not plausible: add two neutrons for U-235. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hibbard at wisc.edu Mon Dec 1 16:20:31 2025 From: hibbard at wisc.edu (Bill Hibbard) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 16:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [ExI] The Death of Stalin Message-ID: <91ea59e6-ee67-f79d-8059-842311e8f0e6@wisc.edu> Great movie, available on archive.org: https://ia600808.us.archive.org/16/items/the-death-of-stalin/The%20Death%20of%20Stalin%20%282017%29.mp4 From spike at rainier66.com Mon Dec 1 22:45:53 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2025 14:45:53 -0800 Subject: [ExI] ivanov part 3 In-Reply-To: <088501dc6313$bc7f9ac0$357ed040$@rainier66.com> References: <4390c17d-9423-4d91-a883-6eb700ae81b8@zaiboc.net> <049f01dc6249$cd4ccf50$67e66df0$@rainier66.com> <05b701dc6276$aaf2bcd0$00d83670$@rainier66.com> <062801dc628a$8ca5d780$a5f18680$@rainier66.com> <088501dc6313$bc7f9ac0$357ed040$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <088d01dc6314$40452000$c0cf6000$@rainier66.com> From: John Clark > Subject: Re: ivanov part 3 On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 1:20?AM > wrote: >>? that Death of Stalin movie has the ring of truth. >?Yes, ?General Zhukov was wearing a ridiculous number of metals, however the director insisted that they use FEWER medals because if they used as many as the real Zhukov did nobody would believe it. John K Clark Ja it would appear to be another sight gag. But the real guy did it: Again, it wasn?t a comedy or even a dark comedy, it was what I would consider as good a description of historical events as filmography gets. What I really noticed about this one is how authentic and plausible were the characters along with how much they spent on the sets. There were what looked like many hundreds of extras, and I never spotted a costume mistake. They had the cars, the settings, everything looked very authentic. That was well done. But also, it presented a very plausible scenario of the Soviet Polit bureau struggling for power, recognizing that it wasn?t clear who would succeed Stalin?s weak legal successor Georgy Malenkov, but it was clear someone would. The others realized there was a huge power vacuum, and that eventually someone would make a bid for that spot as premier. But that premier needed a coalition behind him, otherwise the others would gang up on that one guy and remove him, as in REMOVE. They all knew this. The premier prize was driving the inner circle polit bureau insane with power lust, but they knew it was fatal if they grabbed for it and failed. The depiction of Beria was terrific. Most in the west thought he would become premier. Both Edward Teller and Stanislav Ulam (our nuke guys) understood Berea better than we did. That is why they kept going on the fusion weapon. Beria was universally described as a big huggy bear of a man who had no conscience. If a song were about him, it would be: For he?s a jolly bad fellow? Which nobody can deny. In the west, we thought he would be next up. As soon as it was clear he was pulling out ahead, the others had him? removed. Khruschev became premier. He exiled the fast-rising Stalin-loyalists that Malenkov had exiled to Siberia, such as ?Ivanov? who defected to the USA and sired Ivanov from San Jose State U. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10113 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ben at zaiboc.net Tue Dec 2 09:20:19 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 09:20:19 +0000 Subject: [ExI] movie recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/12/2025 22:46, John K Clark wrote: > Does anybody have a movie recommendation? Absolutely nothing to do with futurism, AI, transhumanism, or anything else this list normally deals with, but my favourite film of all time is 'Amelie' (/Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am?lie Poulain, /Jean-Pierre Jeunet et Guillaume Laurant), with Audrey Tatou. It's not even the kind of thing I normally watch, but it's so well done, quirky, mischievous and funny, that it's become one of the few films I'll watch again and again. It's in French, but the english subtitles make it completely watchable for someone with no french, and the music by Yann Tiersen fits it perfectly. I can honestly say it's "delightful", and I very rarely use that word. Unless you have a heart of stone, I can't recommend it highly enough. -- Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at zaiboc.net Tue Dec 2 09:30:48 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 09:30:48 +0000 Subject: [ExI] The elephant in the space mission control room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07c136f6-9d7b-4f34-87d0-2cb5852adb8f@zaiboc.net> On 01/12/2025 22:46, Giulio Prisco wrote: > Biological humans like us won?t establish an interstellar > civilization. AI will. The writing on the wall says that AI and > artificial superintelligence (ASI) will fill the galaxy and the > universe with superintelligent consciousness. > https://www.turingchurch.com/p/the-elephant-in-the-space-mission I've thought this is self-evident for quite a long time now, but there's one thing you're not mentioning. Getting into space doesn't just happen because you're super-intelligent. You need a rocket, or some kind of launch system, and granted, a superintelligence might be able to come up with a more efficient system than SpaceX has (and probably will), but I'm betting it wouldn't waste a perfectly good existing system. So while Starship might never take humans to Mars, it might well take our mind-children there, and many other places. SpaceX is not wasting it's time, even if it doesn't end up doing what Musk intended it for. -- Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 11:36:37 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 06:36:37 -0500 Subject: [ExI] movie recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 4:22?AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> my favourite film of all time is 'Amelie' (Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am?lie > Poulain, Absolutely nothing to do with futurism, AI, transhumanism, or > anything else this list normally deals with, but my favourite film of all > time is 'Amelie' (Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am?lie Poulain, Jean-Pierre Jeunet > et Guillaume Laurant), with Audrey Tatou. It's not even the kind of thing I > normally watch, but it's so well done, quirky, mischievous and funny, that > it's become one of the few films I'll watch again and again.* *Thanks, I'll check it out. I think the best movie of the 21st-century, so far, is Christopher Nolan's 2006 film "The Prestige". I don't want to give away too much but at the beginning you may think it has nothing to do with the sort of things we talk about on this list, but if you keep watching I'm certain you'll see a connection. * *John K Clark * > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at zaiboc.net Tue Dec 2 12:06:58 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 12:06:58 +0000 Subject: [ExI] movie recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02/12/2025 11:36, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 4:22?AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat > wrote: > > /> my favourite film of all time is 'Amelie' (Le Fabuleux Destin > d'Am?lie Poulain,Absolutely nothing to do with futurism, AI, > transhumanism, or anything else this list normally deals with, but > my favourite film of all time is 'Amelie' (Le Fabuleux Destin > d'Am?lie Poulain, Jean-Pierre Jeunet et?Guillaume Laurant), with > Audrey Tatou. It's not even the kind of thing I normally watch, > but it's so well done, quirky, mischievous and funny, that it's > become one of the few films I'll watch again and again./ > > > *Thanks, I'll check it out.I think the best movie of the 21st-century, > so far, is Christopher Nolan's 2006 film "The Prestige". I don't want > to give away too much but at the beginning you may think it has > nothing to do with?the sort of things we talk about on this list, but > if you keep watching I'm certain you'll see a connection. * > * > * > *John K Clark * > Yes, I saw that one, but didn't rate it too highly, mainly because it's based on a silly argument that people keep coming up with in connection with that sort of thing. Avoiding spoilers for other people means I can't say more. It's a well-made film, but for me, very disappointing. It could have been much, much better (at the cost of the original storyline). -- Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 12:13:22 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 07:13:22 -0500 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] The elephant in the space mission control room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 8:12?AM Giulio Prisco wrote: > Biological humans like us won?t establish an interstellar > civilization. AI will. The writing on the wall says that AI and > artificial superintelligence (ASI) will fill the galaxy and the > universe with superintelligent consciousness. > https://www.turingchurch.com/p/the-elephant-in-the-space-mission *I agree. I don't think a biological Human will ever visit Alpha Centauri even though it's only 4 light years away, but an AI could. The best way to do it would be to send a Von Newman probe there, since it has such a small mass it should be possible to accelerate it to 10% of the speed of light without too much trouble. When it arrives the probe would build a large data farm and insert the neural connection weights of the AI into it. And now the AI is at Alpha Centauri. Using the same method the AI could visit the Andromeda Galaxy, it would take 20 million years instead of 40 but subjectively to the AI it would seem to be instantaneous transportation. * *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis * 3e6 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 13:09:36 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 08:09:36 -0500 Subject: [ExI] The U.S. Is Funding Fewer Grants in Every Area of Science and Medicine Message-ID: Explore this gift article from The New York Times. You can read it for free without a subscription. The U.S. Is Funding Fewer Grants in Every Area of Science and Medicine A quiet policy change means the government is making fewer bets on long-term science. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/12/02/upshot/trump-science-funding-cuts.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5k8.X-P-.4n8nKFa_OT8C&smid=em-share -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giulio at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 13:17:39 2025 From: giulio at gmail.com (Giulio Prisco) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 14:17:39 +0100 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] The elephant in the space mission control room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 1:14?PM John Clark wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 8:12?AM Giulio Prisco wrote: > >> > Biological humans like us won?t establish an interstellar >> civilization. AI will. The writing on the wall says that AI and >> artificial superintelligence (ASI) will fill the galaxy and the >> universe with superintelligent consciousness. >> https://www.turingchurch.com/p/the-elephant-in-the-space-mission > > > I agree. I don't think a biological Human will ever visit Alpha Centauri even though it's only 4 light years away, but an AI could. The best way to do it would be to send a Von Newman probe there, since it has such a small mass it should be possible to accelerate it to 10% of the speed of light without too much trouble. When it arrives the probe would build a large data farm and insert the neural connection weights of the AI into it. And now the AI is at Alpha Centauri. Using the same method the AI could visit the Andromeda Galaxy, it would take 20 million years instead of 40 but subjectively to the AI it would seem to be instantaneous transportation. > > John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis > Yes. Humans could still play a role though: the AI at Alpha Centauri could build receivers for human mindfiles beamed from the solar system at the speed of light, receive the mindfiles, and upload them to human-like robotic bodies made with biology-like robotics. This makes me optimistic on the possibility that (post)biological humans could visit Alpha Centauri. But in the long run, humans and AI will merge and the relative importance of the AI part will grow larger and larger with time, to the point where there is very little that we would call "human." However, I think it's important to learn to see those superAIs (with a tiny little human part) as the fully human persons of the future. > 3e6 > > >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "extropolis" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to extropolis+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/CAJPayv3MD%2BuP_%2BV%3DArF4U%3Dk6BxE9tmrymYU43jcg748ZWsBT%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com. From spike at rainier66.com Wed Dec 3 01:37:06 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 17:37:06 -0800 Subject: [ExI] movie recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01db01dc63f5$56ac1dd0$04045970$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat Subject: [ExI] movie recommendations On 01/12/2025 22:46, John K Clark wrote: Does anybody have a movie recommendation? >?Absolutely nothing to do with futurism, AI, transhumanism, or anything else this list normally deals with, but my favourite film of all time is 'Amelie' (Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am?lie Poulain, Jean-Pierre Jeunet et Guillaume Laurant), with Audrey Tatou. Everything has to do with futurism Ben. AI will view our movies as well as read our books. With AI trained on how humans are, history and the arts wrap back around, like a snake devouring its tail. Everything we do now is futurism. Granted I do not like the notion that I just compared us to the snake?s tail, witnessing the snake?s head advancing hungrily. >?Unless you have a heart of stone, I can't recommend it highly enough. -- Ben Ben you present here as a kind and gentle soul. Your recommendation has persuaded me to view Amelie, in spite of my heart of stone. Egregiously calcified lump of useless minerals it is, with few redeeming qualities, smaller than that of the Grinch before he met Cindy Lou Who, that?s who. I am not familiar with French comedy, but my first exposure was John?s recommendation Death of Stalin, which is (one might opine) very dark comedy, darker than the inside of a cow. I don?t know how else they could have presented that topic with any semblance of historical veracity without having hundreds of perfectly innocent commies get slain (ja, even I agree there are innocent commies.) Casting Monte Python?s Michael Palin as Molotov was brilliant. Historians have long debated what we will never know: the possibility that Stalin was murdered. It seems plausible enough that I would buy that share for about 30 cents. If he was murdered, it was probably by the polit bureau, and Beria is the leading suspect, perhaps 50% chance he dunnit. In the movie, they have Beria poisoning the boss. Before he did that, he slew all the doctors in Moscow, anyone who could treat a poison patient or diagnose the cause of death. Upon ?discovering? the ambiguously dead Stalin, he sent the rest of the polit bureau to fetch a doctor, but the best they could do is a psychiatrist. The soviets used mental hospitals as makeshift prisons. They put lab coats on a dozen psych patients (actual wackmeisters as opposed to the already-slain doctors (Beria could not risk having real medics survive)) and gave them temporary medical degrees. Very dark hilarity ensued. Those patient-doctors were all slain in a horrifying comedic scene. History tells us that Beria is thought to be the Soviet contact for Klaus Fuchs, so I had already known something about him from Richard Rhodes? excellent book The Making Of The Atomic Bomb. Rhodes? description of the ruthless Beria agrees with the French script writers: he was perhaps the smartest of the polit bureau, remorseless rapist, remorselessly disregarding the suffering of citizens, with the only socially redeeming quality being his murdering Stalin. Ben, if you can develop the requisite heart of stone even temporarily, I do recommend Death of Stalin. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Dec 3 16:34:26 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2025 08:34:26 -0800 Subject: [ExI] moss landing fire Message-ID: <03bd01dc6472$b16afb60$1440f220$@rainier66.com> Ordinarily I would send a link to a news story, but the San Jose Mercury thinks they can survive behind a paywall. I do not subscribe, but the Merc occasionally offers a free story they are trying to promote, such as this one, which is of particular interest to me for a reason: potential profit. I paddled a kayak out on those wildlife-rich marshes a few weeks ago to see it for myself, in preparation for investment. It was also for fun: went six miles up into that slough, out to the end of it. Lotsa cool wildlife up there, natural beauty, birds, fish, unspoiled open spaces, Mother Nature, all that kinda crap. After that kayak trip, I lost my nerve, realizing the redevelopment effort is risky: the environmentalists could kill that dead. It was clear before I even knew SJSU was studying it. Looks like I was right on the money. The Moss Landing location is superb and the existing powerline infrastructure makes it compelling as all get out. But. there it sits, on one of the major estuaries in Monterey Bay. The existing facility didn't take what looks like easily implemented fireproofing measures, such as I suggested a few weeks ago: batteries on rolling platforms to isolate a thermal runaway (that woulda been relatively easy to do (certainly cheap and easy compared to the costs they now face as a consequence of not doing them.)) About a year ago, Moss Landing demonstrated how bad an idea it is to build that kind of facility without such measures next to an environmentally sensitive waterway. Now. it might be too late to make money there. From looking over this SJSU study, it reinforced what I had already tentatively concluded: the Moss Landing facility is an investment no-fly zone. Damn. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30764 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Dec 3 17:43:42 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2025 09:43:42 -0800 Subject: [ExI] exi movie recommendations Message-ID: <040201dc647c$5e4f7460$1aee5d20$@rainier66.com> It occurred to me to post a message to my fellow US-ians who might otherwise miss the dark French humor I was introduced to with John's recommendation Death of Stalin. We US-ians tend to know less about European history that we do our own history (imagine that) but one of my Chinese import neighbors educated me on this as I was going on about our civil war: stuff like that happens in Asia aaaalllll the tiiiiimmmme but they don't make too big a hootenanny over it. We did that civil war business exactly once, in four centuries Europeans have been in North America, once. In that time span, Asians would have two or three conflicts bigger than our one and only civil war. I don't know if he was bullshitting me, but the fact that I don't know reinforces his point. If you view Death of Stalin and are US-ian, and if you are in my league of ignorance of Europe (the industrial-strength variety of ignorance) keep in mind that script was written by a European for European English speakers. Some of the jokes won't translate well, particularly the comic exaggerations, which we yanks might take as literal. For instance. In the script, Stalin has been poisoned, he doesn't know whodunnit, but the matronly servant brought him the tea which someone poisoned. He briefly regains consciousness. All but Beria think he has had a stroke. They think Stalin is trying to appoint a successor. The polit bureau is gathered at the bedside of the stricken dictator. The matronly servant is at the foot of his bed, completely invisible to the polit bureau, for she is just a servant, a proletariat, whereas they are Stalin's inner circle. Stalin cannot speak, but he is pointing at her. Each member of the polit bureau looks right thru her for she is transparent to them, completely invisible, non-existent. Each inner circle guy looks the painting on the wall behind her and try to interpret the painting as an indication Stalin means he wants that guy to be his successor. Meanwhile the matronly servant, at whom Stalin is actually pointing because she brought the tea she didn't know was poisoned by Beria, thinks Stalin wants her to be his successor (who, ME? ME?) At that, I was laughing so damn hard I couldn't hear the dialog, so I had to stop the video and roll on the floor RTFLOLing until it was a lot cleaner than it had been before. There are advantages to viewing movies on one's own computer rather than the theatre. After Stalin perished of the toxin Beria put in his tea, the French movie script did an intentional exaggeration that Europeans will get but many yanks may not: the commies came into Stalin's compound and killed the entire staff in order to contain any leaked information. Commies are bad, but they didn't do that particular atrocity, I am quite confident. I interpreted that scene as the French version of our US-ian nudge-wink (Oui, of course we are putting you on (zee seeelly yahnKEEEZZ know nozzing about zee Europeaaahhhnn HEEEZdorEEE (apologies, we US-ians often don't know how to spell French accents very well.))) spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Dec 3 23:27:08 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2025 15:27:08 -0800 Subject: [ExI] first ai jet suit race Message-ID: <006a01dc64ac$589dee90$09d9cbb0$@rainier66.com> I am about 70% sure this is AI generated. Likely I would become more than 70% sure if I had time to investigate which I don?t. But what if? it is real? I would soooooo be on that, oh it looks like big fun, some wicked cool youthful indiscretion there: Viral Vibes on X: "World's first jet suit race in Dubai ?@wealth https://t.co/3TWe8MCEaH" / X spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 23:58:07 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2025 16:58:07 -0700 Subject: [ExI] first ai jet suit race In-Reply-To: <006a01dc64ac$589dee90$09d9cbb0$@rainier66.com> References: <006a01dc64ac$589dee90$09d9cbb0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: Nope, these are real. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daedalus_Flight_Pack https://gravity.co/ https://louisskupien.com/blogs/news/i-flew-a-real-1300hp-jet-suit-with-gravity-industries-and-captured-the-whole-thing-louis-skupien?srsltid=AfmBOopRlhXd7k6R5MYsm74EAr-1eqh95vGwnLItyf-RUwSOwokf03Nd On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 4:28?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > > > > > > > I am about 70% sure this is AI generated. Likely I would become more than > 70% sure if I had time to investigate which I don?t. > > > > But what if? it is real? I would soooooo be on that, oh it looks like big > fun, some wicked cool youthful indiscretion there: > > > > Viral Vibes on X: "World's first jet suit race in Dubai ?@wealth > https://t.co/3TWe8MCEaH" / X > > > > > spike > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Thu Dec 4 00:10:48 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2025 16:10:48 -0800 Subject: [ExI] first ai jet suit race In-Reply-To: References: <006a01dc64ac$589dee90$09d9cbb0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <001901dc64b2$7209e680$561db380$@rainier66.com> From: Darin Sunley Subject: Re: [ExI] first ai jet suit race Nope, these are real. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daedalus_Flight_Pack https://gravity.co/ https://louisskupien.com/blogs/news/i-flew-a-real-1300hp-jet-suit-with-gravity-industries-and-captured-the-whole-thing-louis-skupien?srsltid=AfmBOopRlhXd7k6R5MYsm74EAr-1eqh95vGwnLItyf-RUwSOwokf03Nd COOL! Darin I had seen the videos of the Daedalus Flight Packs (here.) What I didn?t know is if the race is real. I don?t intend to fly one of these myself. But I would be willing to bet on the races. I already have a strategy: bet on the Dubai or Qatari guys. Reasoning: they have so damn much money there, they could afford to run these rigs, practice like crazy. I was at an international drone competition last summer in the DC area. The Berkeley team, along with about a dozen other American teams, were all skunked. None of the yanks placed anywhere near the winners? circle. The Middle Eastern teams were scorching however. They had sooooo much money, everything they brought was gold-plated and top of the line everything. Both Ukrainian teams were really good too. They had plenty of money behind them from their War Department. A big disadvantage of advanced AI video is now when some cool new thing comes along, we are never quite sure if it is AI or real (would that be AAI?) spike On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 4:28?PM spike jones via extropy-chat > wrote: I am about 70% sure this is AI generated. Likely I would become more than 70% sure if I had time to investigate which I don?t. But what if? it is real? I would soooooo be on that, oh it looks like big fun, some wicked cool youthful indiscretion there: Viral Vibes on X: "World's first jet suit race in Dubai ?@wealth https://t.co/3TWe8MCEaH" / X spike _______________________________________________ extropy-chat mailing list extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Thu Dec 4 15:31:28 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2025 07:31:28 -0800 Subject: [ExI] gait analysis Message-ID: <019501dc6533$0fc8fd40$2f5af7c0$@rainier66.com> At least a decade ago, I posted comments in this forum on the possibility of a possible biometric technique of identifying a person based on the sound of their footsteps. In my office, there was a small group of people, a dozen or so, who passed by regularly. I could tell most of the time who was coming by the sound of their footsteps. The FBI was so far ahead of me. TwitterX is rumbling this morning that after nearly five years, the J6 pipe bomber has been caught, and that the identification was initially thru gait analysis. Let's see how it all unfolds. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at zaiboc.net Thu Dec 4 20:11:31 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2025 20:11:31 +0000 Subject: [ExI] movie recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1597beba-46c0-4808-9f45-23325d2f7546@zaiboc.net> On 03/12/2025 16:34, spike wrote: > Ben, if you can develop the requisite heart of stone even temporarily, I do recommend Death of Stalin. Ok, watched it. Not my cup of tea. I'd give it a 4/10, maybe less. I feel it fails as a comedy, fails to properly convey the horror of those times, and we already know it fails on historical accuracy. It also fails to have a message, not that I think all films have to have one. I don't see why the russians bothered to ban it. Ignoring it would have been more effective. A film that really does require a heart of stone to watch, I feel, is 'Slumdog Millionaire'. I couldn't watch it, had to leave the room. I definitely do not recommend it. -- Ben From tara at taramayastales.com Thu Dec 4 20:37:34 2025 From: tara at taramayastales.com (Tara Maya) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2025 12:37:34 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Fwd: movie recommendations References: <1597beba-46c0-4808-9f45-23325d2f7546@zaiboc.net> Message-ID: I love that movie. (Death of Stalin). It?s hilarious and chilling at the same time. If only there were more movies about the horrors which Communism has inflicted on humanity. Mr. Jones is excellent but there is nothing to soft the tragedy. It gave me nightmares for a week after I saw it, so I have not been able to re-watch it as often as Death of Stalin. Another beautiful movie which falls in between (not funny but not as painful to experience) is Never Look Away. It?s about art and politics and also love. Tara Maya > From spike at rainier66.com Thu Dec 4 22:31:40 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2025 14:31:40 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Fwd: movie recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <1597beba-46c0-4808-9f45-23325d2f7546@zaiboc.net> Message-ID: <011b01dc656d$c2fa81b0$48ef8510$@rainier66.com> -----Original Message----- From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Tara Maya via extropy-chat Subject: [ExI] Fwd: movie recommendations >...I love that movie. (Death of Stalin). It?s hilarious and chilling at the same time.... Tara Maya In some ways it reminded me of the Godfather. That one had bad guys killing bad guys, but they didn't have any of the sight gags and cutting up. Tara, something occurred to me as I was pondering the plausible scenario that Beria poisoned Stalin. In those days Stalin was a complete dictator: no one ever challenged his authority. Of course when he perished there was a huge power vacuum, and several polit bureau members right there ready to rush in to fill it. After Brezhnev there were reforms such as limiting power for the Soviet premier as I understand it. But now, Putin has quietly reestablished a lot of the power infrastructure and made it so that he will be in power indefinitely. This suggests that when he perishes, the polit bureau will again have a horrifying power struggle. >... If only there were more movies about the horrors which Communism has inflicted on humanity... Aye, me lass. >...Mr. Jones is excellent... I do thank you. Oh wait... spike ... _______________________________________________ From johnkclark at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 19:45:00 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 14:45:00 -0500 Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?18=2C000_Reasons_It=E2=80=99s_So_Hard_to_Build_a?= =?utf-8?q?_Chip_Factory_in_America?= Message-ID: Explore this gift article from The New York Times. You can read it for free without a subscription. 18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in America The transformation of Phoenix into a semiconductor hub by Taiwan?s TSMC illustrates the difficulties of large-scale projects in the United States. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/business/tsmc-phoenix-fab.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U8.xJXN.ZcGk9HHLVf5i&smid=em-share -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 20:00:18 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 20:00:18 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Leading AI companies' safety practices are falling short, new report says Message-ID: Leading AI companies' safety practices are falling short, new report says Independent experts said in the report that powerful AI systems face critical gaps in safety protocols even though capabilities continue to increase. Dec. 3, 2025 By Jared Perlo Quotes: As leading artificial intelligence companies release increasingly capable AI systems, a new report is sounding the alarm about what it says are some of those companies? lagging safety practices. The Winter 2025 AI Safety Index, which examines the safety protocols of eight leading AI companies, found that their approaches ?lack the concrete safeguards, independent oversight and credible long-term risk-management strategies that such powerful systems demand.? FLI President Max Tegmark, an MIT professor, said the report provided clear evidence that AI companies are speeding toward a dangerous future, partly because of a lack of regulations around AI. ?The only reason that there are so many C?s and D?s and F?s in the report is because there are fewer regulations on AI than on making sandwiches,? Tegmark told NBC News, referring to the continued lack of adequate AI laws and the established nature of food-safety regulation. ----------------------- BillK From spike at rainier66.com Fri Dec 5 20:55:00 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 12:55:00 -0800 Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?18=2C000_Reasons_It=E2=80=99s_So_Hard_to_Build_a?= =?utf-8?q?_Chip_Factory_in_America?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <028301dc6629$6c64cd30$452e6790$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat ?18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in America https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/business/tsmc-phoenix-fab.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U8.xJXN.ZcGk9HHLVf5i &smid=em-share Ja, 18k reasons why it is hard, but at least 19k reasons why we will do it anyway. Not necessarily in the Phoenix area. If you bring up a map of Nevada, you will see a big open area along that diagonal stateline from Vegas to Reno. That US 95 highway can be four-laned and chip manufacturing can be set up there with a fraction of the bother. Reasoning: US chip manufacturing must meet federal, state, county and city environmental regulations. There are plenty of places along US95 where there isn?t a city, so that doesn?t contribute, where the county doesn?t care (Mineral county, nearly unpopulated Esmeralda and Ny counties) and the state of Nevada will love the idea. The state of Nevada has traditionally been heavily dependent on tourist/harlotry/gambling revenue, but over time, more and more people slake that appetite from home on their computers (not that I personally? like?do anything of that nature?or? anything (clarification: the gambling part (of course I am not doing the tourist or harlotry online at home (what I have would never sell (damn.)))) The state of Nevada would cheerfully welcome the electronics fab industry along that corridor from Vegas to Reno, and would help supply casino hitm? uhhh rather? SECURITY? specialists? to take care of? rather to clear away any? environmental protestors and such. The state of Nevada is experiencing slumping revenue, and is consequently very open and welcoming of alternative revenue sources. OK then, city, county, state, all favor Way-to-hell-and-gone Nevada. That leaves federal environmental regulations. The Chevron decision of 2024 means that even if there are federal environmental regulations, unless they are law, passed by congress, what was once the equivalent of law are now are merely executive branch rules subject to POTUS executive orders. I predict those federal level environmental regulations will not be a problem. Water: ja. Pipes will be needed to haul in water, and I predict it will need to be supplemented by solar desalinated seawater. That means a lot of pipes. Nevada has a lot of clear skies and plenty of open land, so it makes sense to harness solar energy for desalination. Unions: Nevada has plenty of that, but their unions revolve around the entertainment/hospitality/gambling concessions. The harlots union will be cool with more people coming in (assuming there is a harlots union) and their construction unions, well? let em strike. But I don?t think they will, because everywhere a chip fab is under construction, homes and offices will be waaaaay under construction in parallel, so every nail-pounder and wire puller will have all the work he wants. Then? Bring in Taiwanese workers, let them do things their way, have their meetings in Chinese if they wish. There are Chinese-speaking engineers, plenty of them, already in the states, born here. A lot of them live in the Bay area. Prediction (assuming the singularity doesn?t come in the next few years): that corridor between Vegas and Reno will have nuclear plants, desalination plants, new chip fabs, new (and nice) cities filled with new and nice homes, advanced everything. It will be cool. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 21:02:35 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 14:02:35 -0700 Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?18=2C000_Reasons_It=E2=80=99s_So_Hard_to_Build_a?= =?utf-8?q?_Chip_Factory_in_America?= In-Reply-To: <028301dc6629$6c64cd30$452e6790$@rainier66.com> References: <028301dc6629$6c64cd30$452e6790$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: Only one problem: Much of that land has been zoned for the last fifty years for blowing sh*t up, uhhh, I mean "ordnance testing and flight training." Even ignoring the problem of potentially spicy missing toys buried in the sand, the only bureaucracy in USGov that moves slower than the EPA is the military. It's a lovely vision though. On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 1:56?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > > > > > *From:* extropy-chat > *Subject:* [ExI] 18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in > America > > > > >?18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in America > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/business/tsmc-phoenix-fab.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U8.xJXN.ZcGk9HHLVf5i&smid=em-share > > > > > Ja, 18k reasons why it is hard, but at least 19k reasons why we will do it > anyway. Not necessarily in the Phoenix area. > > > > If you bring up a map of Nevada, you will see a big open area along that > diagonal stateline from Vegas to Reno. That US 95 highway can be > four-laned and chip manufacturing can be set up there with a fraction of > the bother. Reasoning: US chip manufacturing must meet federal, state, > county and city environmental regulations. There are plenty of places > along US95 where there isn?t a city, so that doesn?t contribute, where the > county doesn?t care (Mineral county, nearly unpopulated Esmeralda and Ny > counties) and the state of Nevada will love the idea. The state of Nevada > has traditionally been heavily dependent on tourist/harlotry/gambling > revenue, but over time, more and more people slake that appetite from home > on their computers (not that I personally? like?do anything of that > nature?or? anything (clarification: the gambling part (of course I am not > doing the tourist or harlotry online at home (what I have would never sell > (damn.)))) > > > > The state of Nevada would cheerfully welcome the electronics fab industry > along that corridor from Vegas to Reno, and would help supply casino hitm? > uhhh rather? SECURITY? specialists? to take care of? rather to clear away > any? environmental protestors and such. The state of Nevada is > experiencing slumping revenue, and is consequently very open and welcoming > of alternative revenue sources. > > > > OK then, city, county, state, all favor Way-to-hell-and-gone Nevada. That > leaves federal environmental regulations. The Chevron decision of 2024 > means that even if there are federal environmental regulations, unless they > are law, passed by congress, what was once the equivalent of law are now > are merely executive branch rules subject to POTUS executive orders. I > predict those federal level environmental regulations will not be a problem. > > > > Water: ja. Pipes will be needed to haul in water, and I predict it will > need to be supplemented by solar desalinated seawater. That means a lot of > pipes. Nevada has a lot of clear skies and plenty of open land, so it > makes sense to harness solar energy for desalination. > > > > Unions: Nevada has plenty of that, but their unions revolve around the > entertainment/hospitality/gambling concessions. The harlots union will be > cool with more people coming in (assuming there is a harlots union) and > their construction unions, well? let em strike. But I don?t think they > will, because everywhere a chip fab is under construction, homes and > offices will be waaaaay under construction in parallel, so every > nail-pounder and wire puller will have all the work he wants. > > > > Then? Bring in Taiwanese workers, let them do things their way, have > their meetings in Chinese if they wish. There are Chinese-speaking > engineers, plenty of them, already in the states, born here. A lot of them > live in the Bay area. > > > > Prediction (assuming the singularity doesn?t come in the next few years): > that corridor between Vegas and Reno will have nuclear plants, desalination > plants, new chip fabs, new (and nice) cities filled with new and nice > homes, advanced everything. It will be cool. > > > > spike > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 21:10:36 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 14:10:36 -0700 Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?18=2C000_Reasons_It=E2=80=99s_So_Hard_to_Build_a?= =?utf-8?q?_Chip_Factory_in_America?= In-Reply-To: References: <028301dc6629$6c64cd30$452e6790$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: In all seriousness, per Grok: "Where it could actually work inside Nevada (still with far less hassle than Arizona): - *Apex Industrial Park / North Las Vegas dry lake area* ? already zoned heavy industrial, rail access, close to power and the existing workforce, and Clark County desperately wants it. TSMC looked there before Phoenix. - *Tahoe-Reno Industrial Center (TRIC)* east of Reno/Sparks ? where Tesla Giga Nevada already is. Storey County has basically zero environmental pushback, cheap power from NV Energy, rail, I-80 access, and they?ve already permitted the biggest factory in the world. - *Fernley / Lyon County area* ? 45 minutes east of Reno, flat, rail, already has a surprising amount of existing fab-related industry (server farms, etc.). These places are not as gloriously empty as the US 95 diagonal, but they?re already zoned, already have utilities corridors, and the counties will literally roll out the red carpet and shoot the environmentalists for you (figuratively? mostly). Water is still the big issue anywhere in Nevada, but the state has already approved several large-scale pipeline/desal proposals on paper (e.g., the Southern Nevada Water Authority?s old Vegas-to-northern-counties pipeline idea could be revived in the opposite direction if someone pays for it). Bottom line: the ?empty diagonal? fantasy dies on restricted military ranges and UXO, but Nevada can absolutely absorb multiple TSMC-class fabs if they?re placed in the existing industrial corridors that are already pre-cleared. And yes, the state will happily look the other way on almost everything else." On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 2:02?PM Darin Sunley wrote: > Only one problem: > > Much of that land has been zoned for the last fifty years for blowing sh*t > up, uhhh, I mean "ordnance testing and flight training." > Even ignoring the problem of potentially spicy missing toys buried in the > sand, the only bureaucracy in USGov that moves slower than the EPA is the > military. > > It's a lovely vision though. > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 1:56?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> *From:* extropy-chat > >> *Subject:* [ExI] 18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in >> America >> >> >> >> >?18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in America >> >> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/business/tsmc-phoenix-fab.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U8.xJXN.ZcGk9HHLVf5i&smid=em-share >> >> >> >> >> Ja, 18k reasons why it is hard, but at least 19k reasons why we will do >> it anyway. Not necessarily in the Phoenix area. >> >> >> >> If you bring up a map of Nevada, you will see a big open area along that >> diagonal stateline from Vegas to Reno. That US 95 highway can be >> four-laned and chip manufacturing can be set up there with a fraction of >> the bother. Reasoning: US chip manufacturing must meet federal, state, >> county and city environmental regulations. There are plenty of places >> along US95 where there isn?t a city, so that doesn?t contribute, where the >> county doesn?t care (Mineral county, nearly unpopulated Esmeralda and Ny >> counties) and the state of Nevada will love the idea. The state of Nevada >> has traditionally been heavily dependent on tourist/harlotry/gambling >> revenue, but over time, more and more people slake that appetite from home >> on their computers (not that I personally? like?do anything of that >> nature?or? anything (clarification: the gambling part (of course I am not >> doing the tourist or harlotry online at home (what I have would never sell >> (damn.)))) >> >> >> >> The state of Nevada would cheerfully welcome the electronics fab industry >> along that corridor from Vegas to Reno, and would help supply casino hitm? >> uhhh rather? SECURITY? specialists? to take care of? rather to clear away >> any? environmental protestors and such. The state of Nevada is >> experiencing slumping revenue, and is consequently very open and welcoming >> of alternative revenue sources. >> >> >> >> OK then, city, county, state, all favor Way-to-hell-and-gone Nevada. >> That leaves federal environmental regulations. The Chevron decision of >> 2024 means that even if there are federal environmental regulations, unless >> they are law, passed by congress, what was once the equivalent of law are >> now are merely executive branch rules subject to POTUS executive orders. I >> predict those federal level environmental regulations will not be a problem. >> >> >> >> Water: ja. Pipes will be needed to haul in water, and I predict it will >> need to be supplemented by solar desalinated seawater. That means a lot of >> pipes. Nevada has a lot of clear skies and plenty of open land, so it >> makes sense to harness solar energy for desalination. >> >> >> >> Unions: Nevada has plenty of that, but their unions revolve around the >> entertainment/hospitality/gambling concessions. The harlots union will be >> cool with more people coming in (assuming there is a harlots union) and >> their construction unions, well? let em strike. But I don?t think they >> will, because everywhere a chip fab is under construction, homes and >> offices will be waaaaay under construction in parallel, so every >> nail-pounder and wire puller will have all the work he wants. >> >> >> >> Then? Bring in Taiwanese workers, let them do things their way, have >> their meetings in Chinese if they wish. There are Chinese-speaking >> engineers, plenty of them, already in the states, born here. A lot of them >> live in the Bay area. >> >> >> >> Prediction (assuming the singularity doesn?t come in the next few years): >> that corridor between Vegas and Reno will have nuclear plants, desalination >> plants, new chip fabs, new (and nice) cities filled with new and nice >> homes, advanced everything. It will be cool. >> >> >> >> spike >> _______________________________________________ >> extropy-chat mailing list >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Fri Dec 5 21:51:09 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 13:51:09 -0800 Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?18=2C000_Reasons_It=E2=80=99s_So_Hard_to_Build_a?= =?utf-8?q?_Chip_Factory_in_America?= In-Reply-To: References: <028301dc6629$6c64cd30$452e6790$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <02c401dc6631$449be3d0$cdd3ab70$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Darin Sunley via extropy-chat Subject: Re: [ExI] 18,000 Reasons It?s So Hard to Build a Chip Factory in America >>?Ja, 18k reasons why it is hard, but at least 19k reasons why we will do it anyway. Not necessarily in the Phoenix area. >>?If you bring up a map of Nevada, you will see a big open area along that diagonal stateline from Vegas to Reno. >?Much of that land has been zoned for the last fifty years for blowing sh*t up, uhhh, I mean "ordnance testing and flight training." Even ignoring the problem of potentially spicy missing toys buried in the sand, the only bureaucracy in USGov that moves slower than the EPA is the military. Of course, however the military is under the command of POTUS. Things can happen quickly when that guy wants it to. The current one is well aware of the risk to supply chains from across the Pacific, and what must be done to mitigate that risk. Darin do let me assure you: the USA needs domestic chip fab capability. I consider that in the top three current investment opportunities. Prediction: the US military will overcome any difficulties or obstacles presented by ordnance testing in Nye County. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 22:47:05 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 17:47:05 -0500 Subject: [ExI] Does It Make Sense To Put Data Centers In Space? Message-ID: *Does It Make Sense To Put Data Centers In Space?* *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis * dbn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Sat Dec 6 11:10:21 2025 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2025 06:10:21 -0500 Subject: [ExI] =?utf-8?q?18=2C000_Reasons_It=E2=80=99s_So_Hard_to_Build_a?= =?utf-8?q?_Chip_Factory_in_America?= In-Reply-To: <02c401dc6631$449be3d0$cdd3ab70$@rainier66.com> References: <028301dc6629$6c64cd30$452e6790$@rainier66.com> <02c401dc6631$449be3d0$cdd3ab70$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 4:53?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> **Darin do let me assure you: the USA needs domestic chip fab > capability.* *I certainly agree with you, that's why I bought some Intel stock several years ago, at the time it was the only US company that was capable of making cutting edge computer chips. However that turned out to be a poor investment because I forgot that what the US needs is not necessarily what the US will get. Today no US company is capable of making cutting edge computer chips. I wish like hell I had bought TSMC stock back then instead of Intel. * *More recently I did buy some TSMC but I didn't sell my Intel because maybe they can turn things around, and I remembered what Warren Buffett said about TSMC, "It's the leader in a great fast growing industry and is probably the best managed company in the world, but I don't own any of its stock because I don't like the its geography" . I figure if China invades Taiwan the world will suffer but Intel will benefit, and if they don't then TSMC will thrive regardless of which software company makes the smartest AI. * *> I consider that in the top three current investment opportunities.* *I think that would be TSMC, ASML and Nvidia. The people that make the most money in a gold rush are not the miners, it's the people that sell the pics and shovels. I think investing in hardware is far less risky than investing in software because it's more predictable. It's possible that some small little known software company could make a breakthrough and produce an AI that leaves Claude, Grok, GPT and Gemini in the dust, but it's far less likely that a small hardware company could do something similar. * *John K Clark* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Sat Dec 6 23:29:34 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2025 15:29:34 -0800 Subject: [ExI] its the singularity i tells ya In-Reply-To: <006501dc6707$c933a7f0$5b9af7d0$@rainier66.com> References: <006501dc6707$c933a7f0$5b9af7d0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <007501dc6708$2e6a9b10$8b3fd130$@rainier66.com> I don't recall any of us predicting that the price of DRAM would be the indicator of the singularity. Well, ya see it there, ja? spike https://datatrack.trendforce.com/Chart/content/4694/mainstream-dram-spot-pri ce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 60445 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brent.allsop at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 00:13:30 2025 From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2025 17:13:30 -0700 Subject: [ExI] its the singularity i tells ya In-Reply-To: <007501dc6708$2e6a9b10$8b3fd130$@rainier66.com> References: <006501dc6707$c933a7f0$5b9af7d0$@rainier66.com> <007501dc6708$2e6a9b10$8b3fd130$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: Wow! On Sat, Dec 6, 2025 at 4:30?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > > > *I don?t recall any of us predicting that the price of DRAM would be the > indicator of the singularity.* > > > > *Well, ya see it there, ja?* > > > > *spike* > > > > > > *https://datatrack.trendforce.com/Chart/content/4694/mainstream-dram-spot-price > * > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 60445 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spike at rainier66.com Sun Dec 7 00:40:52 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2025 16:40:52 -0800 Subject: [ExI] its the singularity i tells ya In-Reply-To: References: <006501dc6707$c933a7f0$5b9af7d0$@rainier66.com> <007501dc6708$2e6a9b10$8b3fd130$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <010b01dc6712$24b890e0$6e29b2a0$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Brent Allsop via extropy-chat Subject: Re: [ExI] its the singularity i tells ya >?Wow! Brent Ja. Brent think of all the money we coulda made, just before the singularity brultally slays humanity. We coulda died rich. Such a tragedy! At these prices, we may not even be able to afford the singularity. Humanity could save itself by poverty. spike On Sat, Dec 6, 2025 at 4:30?PM spike jones via extropy-chat > wrote: I don?t recall any of us predicting that the price of DRAM would be the indicator of the singularity. Well, ya see it there, ja? spike https://datatrack.trendforce.com/Chart/content/4694/mainstream-dram-spot-price _______________________________________________ extropy-chat mailing list extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6549 bytes Desc: not available URL: