[ExI] Strange existence threat

[Will Steinberg]

I'm also, as always, willing to open my mind and change my beliefs, but the
sudden shift in the trans stuff and the heavy interaction with corporate
culture makes me think it's inorganic.  In general I see it more as an
extreme body modification, like getting 100 face piercings or a full body
tattoo (or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital_modification_and_mutilation#Emasculation
as a body mod), or like the guys who made themselves look like a tiger or a
lizard, or one of a number of religious sects like the Skoptsy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoptsy who practiced genital mutilation.
Btw, we still widely perform genital mutilation on newborn boys, which is
insane.

But what I mean to say is that people are free to do whatever freaky body
mods they want to themselves.  It's when it becomes heavily propagandized
and pushed on kids that it becomes a problem for me.  I mean imagine even a
subculture that was encouraging kids to get *tattoos*--imagine how reviled
that would be.  Things like puberty blockers and surgeries cause permanent
changes, and kids cannot consent to it.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 3:43 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'd certainly believe something like that, but I'm more willing to believe
> that it is a memetic mind poison pushed by propaganda because it gives the
> pharma companies customers-for-life who pay billions in total.  Of course
> part of this is the collusion between providers/pharma and insurance
> companies to raise uninsured prices through the roof, so the insurance
> companies can tax you through ridiculous premiums and give the money to
> providers while skimming off the top for themselves.  I think it's more of
> a deliberate thing, but harder to prove.
>
> In your case you would need to get very solid evidence that people more
> exposed to chemical XYZ are trans (and even knowing what the chemical is,
> that it's not rather a resultant biomarker of being trans, etc).  Only then
> could people perhaps start to say "ok, if it is the result of poison, maybe
> we should reduce the poison."  But the grassroots propagandists that
> industry has created might honestly even say "no, keep the poison, it's
> valid".
>
> I don't have hate for trans people, since (while reserving some ire for
> those who push this stuff on kids)  think overwhelmingly they are just
> following a fad or brainwashed.  They're told about a solution to their
> depression and it works, of course--the placebo effect, as well as the
> effect of *any* mind altering drug in general on changing heavily ingrained
> behavior patterns, are probably enough to cause all the good.
>
> (Side note--I think antidepressants shouldn't be tested against only
> placebo, but a set of other (lightly) mind-altering drugs.  Stimulants have
> been used as antidepressants.  Cannabis.  Dissociatives.  Even opiates.
> Just anything to feel different and get out of that cycle.)
>
> Especially with kids--if you told sad kids that some people get their eyes
> surgically removed and it cures their depression, some of them would
> actually do it, and some of them would be happier afterwards--but there are
> almost always better solutions.  The massive increase in this stuff within
> a period of 10 years to me points to psychological operations by drug
> companies rather than accumulation of poisons, but I suppose you never know.
>
> It's a touchy subject for sure, probably MUCH touchier than you know,
> because you are old.  You best come to that party with data or you'll be
> crucified.
>
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2025 at 9:22 PM Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2025, 7:30 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It needs urgent study. Given the current political environment is that
>>> possible? The oil companies make a lot of money off plastics so they
>>> would oppose research. Maybe it could be sold as a long-term way to
>>> reduce the number of trans people caused by chemicals.  Any other
>>> ideas?
>>>
>>
>> I think you are ambivalent about "trans" so I read this as purely a way
>> to game the zeitgeist into allocating funds for research that should be
>> done regardless of agenda
>>
>> The way words work, and the attention spans growing ever shorter... makes
>> me wince at the snip "reduce the number of trans people" - so if you do
>> mention this again outside this group, be mindful how people will remember
>> what they think you said instead of what you meant.
>>
>> (Or not, perhaps this is my problem more than others)
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
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