[ExI] A science-religious experience

[Ben Zaiboc]

Jason, you seem to be making a lot of effort to use the word 'religion' 
to refer to things that most people wouldn't consider to be religion.

You can define the word however you like, but that doesn't mean anyone 
has to agree with you. All the sources I've looked at define religion to 
be related to supernatural powers (like gods), and people's belief in 
them. As far as I can determine, 'the supernatural' does not, and 
cannot, exist. The word means 'outside nature', and nature encompasses 
everything that actually exists. So religion is primarily about stuff 
that doesn't exist. The supernatural can make for good entertainment 
(depending on the writer), but that's all.

For things that actually do exist, I think it just makes sense to avoid 
conflating them with things that don't. So we should use different words 
to label them.

That's why I disagree with using the word to refer to things like 
systems of ethics, philosophy, personal values etc. I just think we 
should maintain a distiction between reality and fantasy.

I agree that there are some good ideas that feature in some religions, 
and there may be some useful things to be learned from studying them. 
Just as there are some useful things to be learned from studying, say, 
Mein Kampf (though I acknowledge that many people might struggle to find 
them). But those good ideas and useful things aren't exclusive to 
religions, and can be found in other places too. My re-writing of the 10 
commandments illustrates that. The only valid items in it are to be 
found all over the world, in non-religious contexts. The rest is just 
scare-mongering and insecurity.

Another objection is that using the word to refer to things that, 
certainly in my opinion, have nothing to do with it, plays into the 
hands of religious apologists who seize on any excuse to claim "Aha! 
See? you DO believe something!/have a religion/faith". So I don't say 
things like "I believe the scientific method is the best tool for 
understanding the world we have discoverd so far", because I don't trust 
anyone to understand that this use of the word 'believe' is a totally 
different thing from what someone means when they say "I believe in 
Inanna!" (or whatever their chosen local deity is).

Using the words 'religion', 'faith', 'belief' for things like value 
system, philosophy, feelings of awe, etc., is stamping them as belonging 
to the realm of the supernatural, which, at least for me, degrades them. 
I want to be able to marvel at the milky way without someone tainting 
the experience with their favourite supernatural fantasy.

-- 
Ben
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20250226/b3b2d7cc/attachment.htm>