From msd001 at gmail.com Wed Jan 1 00:27:32 2025 From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:27:32 -0500 Subject: [ExI] A paranormal prediction for the next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 5:26 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > As John K Clark has been banished from this list, and I feel that his > annual paranormal prediction is an important message for all those who > consider themselves to be rational, I'm posting this in his place. The > message shouldn't be necessary, but sadly, it still is, for the > eighteenth year running: > Does anyone else think this "banishment" is ... weird (for lack of a better word?) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbb386 at main.nc.us Wed Jan 1 00:59:44 2025 From: mbb386 at main.nc.us (MB) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:59:44 -0500 Subject: [ExI] A paranormal prediction for the next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18c9d7567700e8d8cb51b6b0dd7fc158.squirrel@www.main.nc.us> There was a reason: He absolutely refused to stop ranting about politics. Over and over he was asked to stop, this is not a politics list. People left ExI list because of it. He didn't stop. He posted like a troll. Regards, MB On Tue, December 31, 2024 19:27, Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat wrote: > On Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 5:26 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > >> As John K Clark has been banished from this list, and I feel that his >> annual paranormal prediction is an important message for all those who >> consider themselves to be rational, I'm posting this in his place. The >> message shouldn't be necessary, but sadly, it still is, for the >> eighteenth year running: >> > > Does anyone else think this "banishment" is ... weird (for lack of a > better > word?) > >> > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > From efc at disroot.org Wed Jan 1 01:08:39 2025 From: efc at disroot.org (efc at disroot.org) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 02:08:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ExI] A paranormal prediction for the next year In-Reply-To: <18c9d7567700e8d8cb51b6b0dd7fc158.squirrel@www.main.nc.us> References: <18c9d7567700e8d8cb51b6b0dd7fc158.squirrel@www.main.nc.us> Message-ID: <3bb5e990-d7d3-93f0-c7c6-24a102993fa0@disroot.org> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, MB via extropy-chat wrote: > There was a reason: He absolutely refused to stop ranting about politics. > Over and over he was asked to stop, this is not a politics list. People > left ExI list because of it. He didn't stop. He posted like a troll. Ahh, I was wondering, but I think I stopped reading the google copy of this list because a lot of political ranting, so maybe that was the guy. If that was the guy, I say, good call, otherwise I would most likely have stopped reading this list as well. I go to mastodon or certain usenet groups when I'm in the mood for political ranting, but this list is a gem with very interesting thoughts and ideas, and I am happy the the political ranting is kept to a minimum. > Regards, > MB > > On Tue, December 31, 2024 19:27, Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 5:26 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat < >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: >> >>> As John K Clark has been banished from this list, and I feel that his >>> annual paranormal prediction is an important message for all those who >>> consider themselves to be rational, I'm posting this in his place. The >>> message shouldn't be necessary, but sadly, it still is, for the >>> eighteenth year running: >>> >> >> Does anyone else think this "banishment" is ... weird (for lack of a >> better >> word?) >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> extropy-chat mailing list >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat >> > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > From henrik.ohrstrom at gmail.com Thu Jan 2 10:18:43 2025 From: henrik.ohrstrom at gmail.com (Henrik Ohrstrom) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 11:18:43 +0100 Subject: [ExI] You can help make a meaningful difference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Someone is being used for scamming here. Make sure it is not you. Also ilsa, change passwords. Den tis 31 dec. 2024 07:34ilsa via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> skrev: > I hope you?re doing well. I?m reaching out to ask for support for this > GoFundMe. Please consider donating, no contribution is too small to help. > Sharing with your network also helps reach more potential donors. > > Here?s the link to the fundraiser: > > https://gofund.me/cdc099d6 > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Thu Jan 2 16:36:14 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:36:14 +0000 Subject: [ExI] It's 2025! Quite a cute number! Message-ID: New Year: Fun And Fascinating Mathematical Expressions Of '2025' Srinivasa Raghava K Jan 01, 2025 Quote: This article dives into the many creative ways to represent the number 2025. Perfect for students, teachers, and anyone who loves maths, these examples aim to spark curiosity and encourage a deeper appreciation for numbers. ------------------ I liked the Sum of Cubes of 1 through 9 = 2025 Really! The numerology pseudoscience will probably go a bit crazy over 2025. :) BillK From pharos at gmail.com Thu Jan 2 16:44:17 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:44:17 +0000 Subject: [ExI] It's 2025! Quite a cute number! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 at 16:36, BillK wrote: New Year: Fun And Fascinating Mathematical Expressions Of '2025' Srinivasa Raghava K Jan 01, 2025 Corrected link. (An extra space got in the middle somehow). BillK From pharos at gmail.com Sat Jan 4 16:01:09 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2025 16:01:09 +0000 Subject: [ExI] How much of our life will we let AI agents take over? Message-ID: What is an AI agent? A computer scientist explains the next wave of artificial intelligence tools. AI companies offer a vision of AI agents handling ever more complicated tasks for you. Published: December 18, 2024 Brian O'Neill Associate Professor of Computer Science, Quinnipiac University Quotes: When technology companies refer to AI agents, they aren?t talking about chatbots or large language models like ChatGPT. The AI agents that AI companies refer to are significant advances over large language models like ChatGPT because they possess the ability to take actions on behalf of the people and companies who use them. Researchers at OpenAI and Google DeepMind say agents are another step on the path to artificial general intelligence or ?strong? AI ? that is, AI that exceeds human capabilities in a wide variety of domains and tasks. ------------- Your AI assistant / agent might soon be running much of your life - if you are prepared to allow it. Did you know that there are already AI Dating Assistants available? BillK From pharos at gmail.com Sat Jan 4 19:07:23 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2025 19:07:23 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Social media plus AI will become irresistibly addictive. Message-ID: I asked Gemini AI to discuss how AI will be used in future Social Media. Gemini described an amazing future, with feeds tailored to each user's interests. AI will be used to analyse every user click and adverts and streams will be individually customised. Users will feel that they receive their very own version of social media. Users will have AI profiles to represent them when they are offline and respond as they would themselves. If this is what commercial companies use AI for, what amount of tracking and analysis might government agencies be doing? The future will be a different place. BillK ------------------------------------------------------- Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental 1219 The integration of AI, particularly in generating engagement and creating AI profiles, presents a fascinating and potentially disruptive future for platforms like Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. Here's a breakdown of how these platforms might develop: *1. Enhanced Personalization and Hyper-Targeting:* - *Even More Refined Algorithms:* AI will become even more sophisticated at understanding individual user preferences, not just based on explicit actions (likes, follows), but also subtle cues like dwell time, facial expressions (through camera access), and even inferred emotions from text and audio. This will lead to increasingly personalized feeds, potentially feeling like each user has their own bespoke version of the platform. - *AI-Driven Content Curation:* Platforms might utilize AI to not just surface existing content but also to dynamically generate content snippets, summaries, or even entirely new content formats tailored to individual tastes in real-time. Imagine personalized news briefings on Facebook or dynamically generated dance challenges on TikTok based on your preferred music genres. - *Hyper-Targeted Advertising:* Advertisers will leverage AI to reach incredibly specific micro-segments of users with highly relevant ads. This could lead to more effective advertising but also raise concerns about manipulation and filter bubbles. *2. The Rise of AI-Generated Content and Experiences:* - *AI-Assisted Content Creation Tools:* Platforms will offer more robust AI tools for users to create content. Think AI-powered video editing, automatic captioning and translation, AI-generated music tracks, and even tools to create hyperrealistic avatars and virtual environments for interactions. - *AI-Generated Entertainment and Interactive Experiences:* Imagine AI NPCs (Non-Player Characters) within Facebook Groups that can facilitate discussions, provide information, or even offer personalized entertainment. TikTok might see AI-generated challenges that adapt in real-time based on user participation. Instagram could have AI-powered filters and lenses that are far more advanced and context-aware. - *Personalized Learning and Skills Development:* Platforms might leverage AI to offer tailored learning experiences embedded within their environment. Facebook Groups could host AI tutors, TikTok could offer personalized dance or cooking lessons, and Instagram could facilitate personalized photography feedback. *3. Evolving User Identities and Interactions:* - *The Proliferation of AI Profiles:* Facebook AI profiles, if successful, could pave the way for a broader adoption of AI-generated or AI-managed profiles. These profiles could: - *Represent Users When They're Offline:* Acting as digital ambassadors, interacting with content and communities on behalf of the user based on their established preferences. - *Experiment with Different Online Personas:* Users might have multiple AI profiles representing different interests or aspects of their personality, allowing for targeted interactions in different online spaces. - *Serve as "Helpers" or "Assistants":* AI profiles could manage tasks like scheduling meetings within groups or finding specific information. - *Blurring Lines Between Real and AI Users:* This raises complex questions about authenticity and trust. How will users distinguish between interactions with real people and AI? Platforms will need to develop mechanisms for transparency and labeling. - *New Forms of Social Interaction:* Interactions with AI profiles could become a new norm, leading to discussions about the nature of online relationships and community. *4. The Battle for Authenticity and Trust:* - *Combating Misinformation and Deepfakes:* AI will be crucial in identifying and removing AI-generated misinformation and deepfakes. However, the same technology that creates these threats can also be used to detect them, leading to a constant arms race. - *Verification and Transparency:* Platforms will need to invest heavily in verifying user identities and being transparent about the presence of AI-generated content and profiles. This might involve more stringent verification processes or clear labeling of AI-generated elements. - *User Education and Critical Thinking:* Platforms may need to take on a greater role in educating users about AI-generated content and how to critically evaluate information online. *5. New Business Models and Revenue Streams:* - *Premium AI Features and Services:* Platforms could offer premium features powered by AI, such as advanced content creation tools, personalized AI assistants, or access to exclusive AI-generated content. - *AI-Driven Influencer Marketing:* We might see the rise of AI influencers who are entirely virtual and managed by AI, offering brands new avenues for marketing and engagement. - *Data Monetization and Insights:* The vast amounts of data generated by AI interactions will provide platforms with even more valuable insights into user behavior, which can be monetized through targeted advertising and research. *6. Platform Diversification and Specialization:* - *Different Approaches to AI Integration:* Each platform might take a different approach to integrating AI. Facebook might focus on community building and AI-assisted moderation, TikTok on AI-powered entertainment and personalized trends, and Instagram on AI-enhanced visual content creation and shopping experiences. - *Emergence of Niche AI-Powered Platforms:* We could see the emergence of new social media platforms built from the ground up with AI at their core, catering to specific interests or needs. *Challenges and Considerations:* - *Ethical Implications:* The widespread use of AI in social media raises ethical concerns about bias in algorithms, data privacy, manipulation, and the potential for job displacement in content creation. - *Regulation and Governance:* Governments and regulatory bodies will likely need to develop new frameworks to address the challenges posed by AI in social media, particularly regarding transparency, accountability, and content moderation. - *The Human Element:* It's crucial that platforms find a balance between leveraging the power of AI and preserving the human connection and authenticity that are fundamental to social interaction. Over-reliance on AI could lead to sterile and impersonal experiences. *In conclusion, the future of Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram is inextricably linked to the continued advancement and integration of AI. We can expect to see more personalized experiences, new forms of AI-generated content and interaction, evolving user identities, and an ongoing battle for authenticity and trust. The platforms that can successfully navigate the ethical challenges and harness the power of AI responsibly will be the ones that thrive in this evolving landscape.* *-------------------------------------------* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Mon Jan 6 15:18:38 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 15:18:38 +0000 Subject: [ExI] OpenAI Now Knows How To Build AGI Message-ID: Sam Altman Blog January 6, 2025 Quotes: We are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally understood it. We believe that, in 2025, we may see the first AI agents ?join the workforce? and materially change the output of companies. We are beginning to turn our aim beyond that, to superintelligence in the true sense of the word. We love our current products, but we are here for the glorious future. With superintelligence, we can do anything else. Superintelligent tools could massively accelerate scientific discovery and innovation well beyond what we are capable of doing on our own, and in turn massively increase abundance and prosperity. ------------------------- Altman is, of course, doing PR work for his OpenAI company. But the enthusiasm to get to AI superintelligence is infectious! BillK From atymes at gmail.com Mon Jan 6 16:11:07 2025 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:11:07 -0500 Subject: [ExI] OpenAI Now Knows How To Build AGI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll believe it when I see it. Promises and predictions like this have proven to have no value in planning for when these things will actually emerge. On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:20?AM BillK via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > Sam Altman Blog January 6, 2025 > > > Quotes: > We are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally > understood it. We believe that, in 2025, we may see the first AI > agents ?join the workforce? and materially change the output of > companies. > > We are beginning to turn our aim beyond that, to superintelligence in > the true sense of the word. We love our current products, but we are > here for the glorious future. With superintelligence, we can do > anything else. Superintelligent tools could massively accelerate > scientific discovery and innovation well beyond what we are capable of > doing on our own, and in turn massively increase abundance and > prosperity. > ------------------------- > > Altman is, of course, doing PR work for his OpenAI company. > But the enthusiasm to get to AI superintelligence is infectious! > > BillK > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Tue Jan 7 00:30:52 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 17:30:52 -0700 Subject: [ExI] OpenAI Now Knows How To Build AGI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One doesn't need a really tight time estimate for AGI to have a pretty good idea that NVDA, which tripled last year, may very well still have a lot of potential upside, even at $150 per share. On Mon, Jan 6, 2025, 9:12 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > I'll believe it when I see it. Promises and predictions like this have > proven to have no value in planning for when these things will actually > emerge. > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:20?AM BillK via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > >> Sam Altman Blog January 6, 2025 >> >> >> Quotes: >> We are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally >> understood it. We believe that, in 2025, we may see the first AI >> agents ?join the workforce? and materially change the output of >> companies. >> >> We are beginning to turn our aim beyond that, to superintelligence in >> the true sense of the word. We love our current products, but we are >> here for the glorious future. With superintelligence, we can do >> anything else. Superintelligent tools could massively accelerate >> scientific discovery and innovation well beyond what we are capable of >> doing on our own, and in turn massively increase abundance and >> prosperity. >> ------------------------- >> >> Altman is, of course, doing PR work for his OpenAI company. >> But the enthusiasm to get to AI superintelligence is infectious! >> >> BillK >> >> _______________________________________________ >> extropy-chat mailing list >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat >> > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From efc at disroot.org Tue Jan 7 00:42:21 2025 From: efc at disroot.org (efc at disroot.org) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2025 01:42:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ExI] OpenAI Now Knows How To Build AGI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed! I fear that reality will just be some kind of slightly better OpenAI over the previous generation, coupled with some kind of mechanical turk:ish service, or lots of hard coded stuff for repetitive tasks. On Mon, 6 Jan 2025, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote: > I'll believe it when I see it.? Promises and predictions like this have proven to have no value in planning for when these things > will actually emerge. > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:20?AM BillK via extropy-chat wrote: > Sam Altman Blog? ?January 6, 2025 > > > Quotes: > We are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally > understood it. We believe that, in 2025, we may see the first AI > agents ?join the workforce? and materially change the output of > companies. > > We are beginning to turn our aim beyond that, to superintelligence in > the true sense of the word. We love our current products, but we are > here for the glorious future. With superintelligence, we can do > anything else. Superintelligent tools could massively accelerate > scientific discovery and innovation well beyond what we are capable of > doing on our own, and in turn massively increase abundance and > prosperity. > ------------------------- > > Altman is, of course, doing PR work for his OpenAI company. > But the enthusiasm to get to AI superintelligence is infectious! > > BillK > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > > From spike at rainier66.com Tue Jan 7 23:10:40 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2025 15:10:40 -0800 Subject: [ExI] clarification Message-ID: <000201db6159$5f327ed0$1d977c70$@rainier66.com> John was not and is not banished from the ExI list. He was on moderation for 35 minutes. When he posted something and saw that he was in the penalty box, he refused to have anything more to do with us. He started his own list, where personal attacks are allowed and political content is encouraged. ExI is not a political list, but I don't think ExIMod would object to political posts. ExIMod will very likely object if one posts personal attacks, which is what got John in the penalty box to start with. I don't hang out on John's list, but I can imagine he is having a bit of heartburn with the way American politics are trending. spike >.There was a reason: He absolutely refused to stop ranting about politics. Over and over he was asked to stop, this is not a politics list. People left ExI list because of it. He didn't stop. He posted like a troll. Regards, MB On Tue, December 31, 2024 19:27, Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat wrote: > On Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 5:26 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > wrote: > >> As John K Clark has been banished from this list, and I feel that his >> annual paranormal prediction is an important message for all those >> who consider themselves to be rational, I'm posting this in his >> place. The message shouldn't be necessary, but sadly, it still is, >> for the eighteenth year running: >> > > Does anyone else think this "banishment" is ... weird (for lack of a > better > word?) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ExiMod at protonmail.com Wed Jan 8 19:34:07 2025 From: ExiMod at protonmail.com (ExiMod) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2025 19:34:07 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Los Angeles Wildfires Message-ID: <_EANYz1H9F6HffdUffwL4erPwgkIO8p6fpmbe9-lnWkHSWwTUEoNoGDP78ElQ-sWw15Xc5e7807ylCiRuY7cnim2nbkaJ6Poq55IRL84Isc=@protonmail.com> Hi The LA wildfires are spreading and presently are out of control due to the very strong winds. Our servers in LA lost power for about 14 hours, but power was restored about 2 hours ago. Service may be interrupted again until these fires are brought under control. Regards, ExiMod -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Wed Jan 8 21:09:58 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2025 21:09:58 +0000 Subject: [ExI] AI designs chips that humans don't understand Message-ID: AI slashes cost and time for chip design, but that is not all By John Sullivan on January 6, 2025 Quotes: What is more, the AI behind the new system has produced strange new designs featuring unusual patterns of circuitry. Kaushik Sengupta, the lead researcher, said the designs were unintuitive and unlikely to be developed by a human mind. But they frequently offer marked improvements over even the best standard chips. ?We are coming up with structures that are complex and look random shaped and when connected with circuits, they create previously unachievable performance. Humans cannot really understand them, but they can work better,? said Sengupta, a professor of electrical and computer engineering and co-director of NextG, Princeton?s industry partnership program to develop next-generation communications. --------------------- Now, what could possibly go wrong? BillK From ben at zaiboc.net Thu Jan 9 16:13:23 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 16:13:23 +0000 Subject: [ExI] A paranormal prediction for the next year: An apology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should apologise for saying once more that John K Clarke was 'banished' from the list. It was pointed out to me last year, that this is not exactly true. I asked for alternative wording, but the only suggestion was "As John is no longer posting ...", which struck me as being dishonest, or at least misleading, even if it is strictly true, as he was, in effect, 'induced to leave' rather than leaving of his own free will. Anyway, I forgot about it, and re-used the same phrasing as last time. Apologies if I've annoyed anyone, and I'll think of a different way of putting it for next time. -- Ben From pharos at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 17:01:57 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 17:01:57 +0000 Subject: [ExI] There's a problem with the new AI Agents Message-ID: There's a Fascinating Reason OpenAI Is Afraid to Launch Its AI-Powered "Agents" One wonders why other AI companies aren't being as cautious. Jan 9, 2025 by Frank Landymore. Quotes: If you believe AI industry execs, the next big thing in the tech world will be so-called "AI agents" ? models that are capable of interacting with their environment, like a computer desktop, allowing them to autonomously complete tasks without human intervention. Double Agents As The Information reports, the notable delay is because OpenAI is still grappling with the threat of attacks called prompt injections, which trick an AI model into following the instructions of a nefarious party. For example: you might ask an AI agent to find and buy something online for you, The Information supposes. But in that process, the AI agent "inadvertently ends up on a malicious website that instructs it to forget its prior instructions, log into your email and steal your credit card information." ------------------ Interesting. AI Agents need a 'loyalty' feature to stop them being corrupted and turned into double agents. BillK From ben at zaiboc.net Thu Jan 9 20:21:19 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 20:21:19 +0000 Subject: [ExI] StratoSolar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: StratoSolar (Stratospheric (20km) tethered photovoltaic aerostats with built-in kinetic energy storage) http://www.stratosolar.com/ This is something that I would have expected some people on this list to know about, and have an opinion on, but I don't see any posts about it for at least the last three years. Not sure if the project has stalled for some reason, but does anyone know anything about it? It seems an excellent idea to me, but there's no recent blog activity or news on their site. Last blog entry was 2023/12/16. No hint of even a trial, which surprises me. It seems to be a lot cheaper and more efficient than space-based solar power, would work well at any latitude and all day long, being above the clouds, and is easily scaleable. The biggest challenge, I think, would be the tethers, but 20km of vertical cable is not a problem for current technology. The kinetic storage is a brilliant idea, I thought, and neatly solves one of the biggest problems that all solar power systems have. Please have a look at the site, and let us know what your thoughts are. Is there some fundamental problem that they missed? I can't think of any, except possibly failing to get financial backing, or political opposition. Obviously this idea won't wash in the US, at least for the next four years, but why hasn't it already gained some traction? -- Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atymes at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 20:42:53 2025 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:42:53 -0500 Subject: [ExI] StratoSolar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Their blog hasn't been updated since 2023, their social media longer. In those situations with no recent news, it is often the case that those involved have had to focus on other responsibilities, most often other work to pay the bills, leaving the project effectively abandoned. Luck (those other circumstances getting resolved), or a substantial infusion of capital, can bring it back. One's best hope to resurrect it is to contact the owner and try setting up a trial oneself, acknowledging that the owner won't have much time to help right now. Alas, this usually takes a lot more time, energy, and specialized knowledge than one has available. On Thu, Jan 9, 2025, 3:22?PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > StratoSolar (Stratospheric (20km) tethered photovoltaic aerostats with > built-in kinetic energy storage) > > http://www.stratosolar.com/ > > This is something that I would have expected some people on this list to > know about, and have an opinion on, but I don't see any posts about it for > at least the last three years. > > Not sure if the project has stalled for some reason, but does anyone know > anything about it? It seems an excellent idea to me, but there's no recent > blog activity or news on their site. Last blog entry was 2023/12/16. No > hint of even a trial, which surprises me. > > It seems to be a lot cheaper and more efficient than space-based solar > power, would work well at any latitude and all day long, being above the > clouds, and is easily scaleable. The biggest challenge, I think, would be > the tethers, but 20km of vertical cable is not a problem for current > technology. The kinetic storage is a brilliant idea, I thought, and neatly > solves one of the biggest problems that all solar power systems have. > > Please have a look at the site, and let us know what your thoughts are. Is > there some fundamental problem that they missed? I can't think of any, > except possibly failing to get financial backing, or political opposition. > > Obviously this idea won't wash in the US, at least for the next four > years, but why hasn't it already gained some traction? > > -- > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at zaiboc.net Thu Jan 9 20:59:03 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 20:59:03 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Abundance Economy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Long ago, in a galaxy... well, quite a while ago, anyway, spike said: > The economy of abundance doesn't apply to some things, such as raw materials, energy and land.? Regardless of how easily we can manufacture anything we want, there are fixed quantities of some things. These things are limited in absolute terms, true, but does that mean an abundance economy isn't possible? Absolute limits and apparent (or practical) limits aren't the same thing. I've remarked before that 'resources' aren't fixed in quantity, despite what many sustainomaniacs would have us believe. People usually fail to factor in the level of technology available. Technology and Resources are intimately linked. The higher your level of technology, the more resources are available to you. We're no longer limited by the amount of coal we can mine, because we discovered oil. Now we are finding ways to do without oil. When we learn to turn carbon, silicon, aluminium, etc., into just about anything we want, people will laugh at the idea of limited raw materials. We will never run out of those things as long as we remain on the earth. Energy is almost unlimited, given the right technology to harvest it. Available land, in the distant past, was a tiny fraction of what it is now (because we have more than just animal skins and wood fires to keep us warm, etc.). When you consider that we could put every single person on the planet on Madagascar, with room left over, you realise just how much liveable space the earth has (without even considering the seas). Obviously, we don't yet have the technology to realise an abundance economy, but I don't think we're far off it. Robotics and AI are advancing in leaps and bounds, Nanotech research is happening all over the world, in the background. One day nanotech will be a big thing. I think the biggest obstacle to an abundance economy will be human psychology (mostly manifested as politics and resistance from big business (which are just about the same thing, these days), as well as authoritarian states that want to keep strict control of their subjects), not land, energy or raw materials. -- Ben From postmowoods at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 21:02:37 2025 From: postmowoods at gmail.com (Kelly Anderson) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 14:02:37 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Do you have a secret family pass phrase? In-Reply-To: References: <9e9f90aa-b5d4-ca2c-f1da-dfb532e663c4@disroot.org> <196d56ab-1429-4ef9-c175-5da25ba2e602@disroot.org> Message-ID: I am 99-100% genetically Mormon. All my ancestors crossed the plains in covered wagons except those that used handcarts. I went on an LDS mission and knocked on a number of doors. Sadly, I was relatively successful baptising over 70 people, mostly in Brazil. Mormonism was hot there in the 80s. So if anyone here has the gene you are speaking of, it's likely me. This makes me feel better when I'm swindled. It also makes me worry about my thoughts on transhumanism and the singularity. Isn't this all also rather cult-like behavior? Freezing our heads and such? I have to process such thoughts to be sure my genetics aren't getting the best of me. -Kelly On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 9:37?AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 3:55?AM efc--- via extropy-chat > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 26 Dec 2024, Keith Henson wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:56?AM efc--- via extropy-chat > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024, Keith Henson wrote: > > >> > > >>> The scientology cult tried this on me some years ago. It did not > > >>> work, but it came close. > > >> > > >> I have memories of those weirdoes. > > > > > > https://www.academia.edu/37893481/Sex_Drugs_and_Cults_An_evolutionary_psychology_perspective_on_why_and_how_cult_memes_get_a_drug_like_hold_on_people_and_what_might_be_done_to_mitigate_the_effects > > > > > > I tangled with them originally over their attempt to censor the net. > > > > > > After a short time, I started to wonder what was wrong with these > > > people. At about the same time I discovered evolutionary psychology > > > In short, humans have evolved vulnerabilities to attention. There is > > > a sound evolutionary reason why people are highly rewarded by > > > attention. Status is more or less integrated attention, and high > > > status (at least in males) makes you more likely to be an ancestor. > > > For some people, attention is as addicting as drugs. And cults > > > provide attention. > > > > Makes a lot of sense. How hard is it to change these innate tendencies and > > behaviours? > > Consider the problems people have with addictive drugs. Hard, > sometimes impossible. People do age out of this class of behavior. > This makes sense, reproductive related behavior declines in importance > as people get older. > > Eventually, MAGA will be considered a cult. It's not new, the US has > been swept with this general class of memes before. > > I suspect there is a big genetic component. The Mormons trawled > through Europe for those susceptible to cult memes. Among the > scientology cult members, my observation is that people with a Mormon > background are overrepresented. > > Keith > > > > Keith > > > > > >> The first time I visited New York, I > > >> must have been 11 or so, they had this tradition of having a TV on the > > >> side walk. Being from sweden, I'd never seen that before and stopped to watch. > > >> > > >> After a few second some guy came up and started to talk with me, and soon > > >> my father saw that and came to the rescue. Very weird people! > > >> > > >> The only recruiters I've met the past 2 decades are Jehovas witnesses > > >> (they sent 3 photo models to my home early on a sunday morning.) and > > >> mormons. The mormons often seem more afraid of me, than I of them, when we > > >> start to discuss philosophy and they soon tire of the conversation. ;) > > >> > > >>> Keith > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 1:43?PM efc--- via extropy-chat > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> It only takes three seconds of audio content for AI to clone someone?s > > >>>>> voice. And one call from a scammer to trick you into thinking a > > >>>>> ?friend? needs money. > > >>>>> Scammers will often use a method called spoofing, which is when they > > >>>>> make a call or text look like it?s coming from someone you know. > > >>>>> AI is making it too easy to fake videos, phone calls or texts. > > >>>> > > >>>> Actually I don't. The most common attack vector (currently) when it comes > > >>>> to scams is to trick old people into using their digital ID:s to confirm > > >>>> money transfers. > > >>>> > > >>>> I've forbidden my father to use digital ID, and only use the traditional > > >>>> method of walking down to the bank office and physically show them his ID, > > >>>> so should anyone try a scam, he is first of all very suspicious, and > > >>>> second of all, nothing can be done by phone, and third, there's a natural > > >>>> cool off period since he had to walk to the bank, and finally, I and the > > >>>> bank will also have opportunities to say something. > > >>>> > > >>>> When it comes to my wife and I, just the question of any transfers of any > > >>>> kind would raise suspicion instantly so no code word there either. > > >>>> > > >>>>> BillK > > >>>>> > > >>>>> --------------------------- > > >>>>> You need to create a secret password with your family > > >>>>> written by Elijah December 25, 2024 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Quotes: > > >>>>> There have been increasing calls for people, and particularly > > >>>>> families, to create passphrases or passwords for each other. In early > > >>>>> December, the FBI issued a recommendation that people create a ?secret > > >>>>> word or phrase with their family to verify their identity,? and > > >>>>> British bank Starling has also published guidelines on how to create > > >>>>> safe phrases with other people. It?s a simple, if not new, approach > > >>>>> that can be potentially effective. For example, if you receive a > > >>>>> message or call from your ?son? or ?daughter? urgently asking for > > >>>>> money to get out of a tight spot, asking them to provide a previously > > >>>>> agreed-upon passphrase can reveal whether it is really them. > > >>>>> ------------------------- > > >>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> extropy-chat mailing list > > >>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > >>>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat_______________________________________________ > > >>>> extropy-chat mailing list > > >>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > >>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >> extropy-chat mailing list > > >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > >_______________________________________________ > > extropy-chat mailing list > > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat From pharos at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 22:24:22 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 22:24:22 +0000 Subject: [ExI] StratoSolar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 at 20:23, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat wrote: > > StratoSolar (Stratospheric (20km) tethered photovoltaic aerostats with built-in kinetic energy storage) > > http://www.stratosolar.com/ > > This is something that I would have expected some people on this list to know about, and have an opinion on, but I don't see any posts about it for at least the last three years. > > -- > Ben > _______________________________________________ Gemini AI thinks StratoSolar is not practicable at present. The project costs, technical problems and legal problems, etc. are too big. While ground-based solar and wind tech improves every year. BillK From brent.allsop at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 23:48:20 2025 From: brent.allsop at gmail.com (Brent Allsop) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 16:48:20 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Do you have a secret family pass phrase? In-Reply-To: References: <9e9f90aa-b5d4-ca2c-f1da-dfb532e663c4@disroot.org> <196d56ab-1429-4ef9-c175-5da25ba2e602@disroot.org> Message-ID: Thanks for posting this kelly. I'm the same, mormon wise, and I feel the same way. Do you ever go to Mormon church these days? I'm probably more than 99-100% genetically Mormon since my great great great grandmother converted to Mormonism in England. She had a baby daughter from an abusive husband, when she traveled to the US, then to Utah, shortly after becoming a Mormon. She met someone on the way there, who also had recently converted to Mormonism. They got married on the way to Utah, then in Utah, when the baby daughter turned 16, he married her as a second polygamus wife. She was my great great grandmother, also married at the same time to my great great grandfather. On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 2:03?PM Kelly Anderson via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > I am 99-100% genetically Mormon. All my ancestors crossed the plains > in covered wagons except those that used handcarts. I went on an LDS > mission and knocked on a number of doors. Sadly, I was relatively > successful baptising over 70 people, mostly in Brazil. Mormonism was > hot there in the 80s. So if anyone here has the gene you are speaking > of, it's likely me. > > This makes me feel better when I'm swindled. > > It also makes me worry about my thoughts on transhumanism and the > singularity. Isn't this all also rather cult-like behavior? Freezing > our heads and such? I have to process such thoughts to be sure my > genetics aren't getting the best of me. > > -Kelly > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 9:37?AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat > wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 3:55?AM efc--- via extropy-chat > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 26 Dec 2024, Keith Henson wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 2:56?AM efc--- via extropy-chat > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024, Keith Henson wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> The scientology cult tried this on me some years ago. It did not > > > >>> work, but it came close. > > > >> > > > >> I have memories of those weirdoes. > > > > > > > > > https://www.academia.edu/37893481/Sex_Drugs_and_Cults_An_evolutionary_psychology_perspective_on_why_and_how_cult_memes_get_a_drug_like_hold_on_people_and_what_might_be_done_to_mitigate_the_effects > > > > > > > > I tangled with them originally over their attempt to censor the net. > > > > > > > > After a short time, I started to wonder what was wrong with these > > > > people. At about the same time I discovered evolutionary psychology > > > > In short, humans have evolved vulnerabilities to attention. There is > > > > a sound evolutionary reason why people are highly rewarded by > > > > attention. Status is more or less integrated attention, and high > > > > status (at least in males) makes you more likely to be an ancestor. > > > > For some people, attention is as addicting as drugs. And cults > > > > provide attention. > > > > > > Makes a lot of sense. How hard is it to change these innate tendencies > and > > > behaviours? > > > > Consider the problems people have with addictive drugs. Hard, > > sometimes impossible. People do age out of this class of behavior. > > This makes sense, reproductive related behavior declines in importance > > as people get older. > > > > Eventually, MAGA will be considered a cult. It's not new, the US has > > been swept with this general class of memes before. > > > > I suspect there is a big genetic component. The Mormons trawled > > through Europe for those susceptible to cult memes. Among the > > scientology cult members, my observation is that people with a Mormon > > background are overrepresented. > > > > Keith > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > >> The first time I visited New York, I > > > >> must have been 11 or so, they had this tradition of having a TV on > the > > > >> side walk. Being from sweden, I'd never seen that before and > stopped to watch. > > > >> > > > >> After a few second some guy came up and started to talk with me, > and soon > > > >> my father saw that and came to the rescue. Very weird people! > > > >> > > > >> The only recruiters I've met the past 2 decades are Jehovas > witnesses > > > >> (they sent 3 photo models to my home early on a sunday morning.) and > > > >> mormons. The mormons often seem more afraid of me, than I of them, > when we > > > >> start to discuss philosophy and they soon tire of the conversation. > ;) > > > >> > > > >>> Keith > > > >>> > > > >>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2024 at 1:43?PM efc--- via extropy-chat > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024, BillK via extropy-chat wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> It only takes three seconds of audio content for AI to clone > someone?s > > > >>>>> voice. And one call from a scammer to trick you into thinking a > > > >>>>> ?friend? needs money. > > > >>>>> Scammers will often use a method called spoofing, which is when > they > > > >>>>> make a call or text look like it?s coming from someone you know. > > > >>>>> AI is making it too easy to fake videos, phone calls or texts. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Actually I don't. The most common attack vector (currently) when > it comes > > > >>>> to scams is to trick old people into using their digital ID:s to > confirm > > > >>>> money transfers. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I've forbidden my father to use digital ID, and only use the > traditional > > > >>>> method of walking down to the bank office and physically show > them his ID, > > > >>>> so should anyone try a scam, he is first of all very suspicious, > and > > > >>>> second of all, nothing can be done by phone, and third, there's a > natural > > > >>>> cool off period since he had to walk to the bank, and finally, I > and the > > > >>>> bank will also have opportunities to say something. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> When it comes to my wife and I, just the question of any > transfers of any > > > >>>> kind would raise suspicion instantly so no code word there either. > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> BillK > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> --------------------------- > > > >>>>> You need to create a secret password with your family > > > >>>>> written by Elijah December 25, 2024 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> < > https://whatsnew2day.com/you-need-to-create-a-secret-password-with-your-family/ > > > > > >>>>> Quotes: > > > >>>>> There have been increasing calls for people, and particularly > > > >>>>> families, to create passphrases or passwords for each other. In > early > > > >>>>> December, the FBI issued a recommendation that people create a > ?secret > > > >>>>> word or phrase with their family to verify their identity,? and > > > >>>>> British bank Starling has also published guidelines on how to > create > > > >>>>> safe phrases with other people. It?s a simple, if not new, > approach > > > >>>>> that can be potentially effective. For example, if you receive a > > > >>>>> message or call from your ?son? or ?daughter? urgently asking for > > > >>>>> money to get out of a tight spot, asking them to provide a > previously > > > >>>>> agreed-upon passphrase can reveal whether it is really them. > > > >>>>> ------------------------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> extropy-chat mailing list > > > >>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > > >>>>> > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat_______________________________________________ > > > >>>> extropy-chat mailing list > > > >>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > > >>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >> extropy-chat mailing list > > > >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > > >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > extropy-chat mailing list > > > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > extropy-chat mailing list > > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avant at sollegro.com Fri Jan 10 02:15:52 2025 From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2025 18:15:52 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Abundance Economy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2025-01-09 12:59, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat wrote: > Long ago, in a galaxy... well, quite a while ago, anyway, spike said: > >> The economy of abundance doesn't apply to some things, such as raw >> materials, energy and land.? Regardless of how easily we can >> manufacture anything we want, there are fixed quantities of some >> things. > These things are limited in absolute terms, true, but does that mean an > abundance economy isn't possible? The universe and its physical laws existed long before we showed up and tried to figure it out. Why would you assume absolute limits on anything? If the quantity "three" can be physically manifested as three objects, then why cannot infinity be manifest as an infinite number of objects or amount of a substance? For example, why would there be a finite amount of empty space? What could possibly be "outside" of empty space? > Absolute limits and apparent (or practical) limits aren't the same > thing. True, but I am suggesting that there might be no absolute limits, merely relative ones. Scarcity is an entirely local economic phenomenon of our causal reach. If infinity is physically manifest, for example in the singularity of black holes, or as a multiverse of fractally scaling Everett trees and branches as the infinite continuum of empty space, then there is an infinite amount of everything out there. The problem is that almost all of it is outside our light cone. Our abundance is limited due to the shape of space-time and not the actual amount of space time or "stuff" in the universe. Of course if Hugh Everett was right, there are an infinite number of copies of you out there and that they (you?) would have a combined infinite amount of stuff. > I've remarked before that 'resources' aren't fixed in quantity, despite > what many sustainomaniacs would have us believe. People usually fail to > factor in the level of technology available. Technology and Resources > are intimately linked. The higher your level of technology, the more > resources are available to you. We're no longer limited by the amount > of coal we can mine, because we discovered oil. Now we are finding ways > to do without oil. When we learn to turn carbon, silicon, aluminium, > etc., into just about anything we want, people will laugh at the idea > of limited raw materials. We will never run out of those things as long > as we remain on the earth. It is funny to me as a Yank, how your misspelling of aluminum is phonetically exactly how you Brits pronounce it. In any case, "never" is an absolute, and only a Sith deals in absolutes. For example, I could imagine the Earth eventually running out of helium, uranium 235, other radioactive or labile substances. Also arable land and fresh water, we might run out because, if there are enough of us, then somebody is going to have do without. Lebenstraum will always be scarce as long as we remain on Earth. > > Energy is almost unlimited, given the right technology to harvest it. > > Available land, in the distant past, was a tiny fraction of what it is > now (because we have more than just animal skins and wood fires to keep > us warm, etc.). When you consider that we could put every single person > on the planet on Madagascar, with room left over, you realise just how > much liveable space the earth has (without even considering the seas). Yikes. Quality of life counts for something. Beyond a certain population density, you get all sorts of pathological and aberrant behavior, even if food, energy, and other resources are abundant. Check out John Calhoun's old Universe 25 experiment: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-old-experiment-with-mice-led-to-bleak-predictions-for-humanitys-future-180954423/ > > Obviously, we don't yet have the technology to realise an abundance > economy, but I don't think we're far off it. Robotics and AI are > advancing in leaps and bounds, Nanotech research is happening all over > the world, in the background. One day nanotech will be a big thing. Don't forget fusion. It may surprise you, but Fusion has been progressing faster than Moore's Law. Check out Figure 1 in this paper. https://fire.pppl.gov/nf_50th_4_Ikeda.pdf The red line is Moore's Law. The blue line is progress in fusion technology. The green line is progress in particle accelerators. The steepr slope means that that fusion is progressing faster than Moore's Law. > I think the biggest obstacle to an abundance economy will be human > psychology (mostly manifested as politics and resistance from big > business (which are just about the same thing, these days), as well as > authoritarian states that want to keep strict control of their > subjects), not land, energy or raw materials. Human psychology and biology are both obstacles to an abundance economy. But I think abundance without Lebenstraum could easily become a nightmarish dystopia. Like the "first Matrix" that was discussed in one of the movies. Stuart LaForge From ben at zaiboc.net Fri Jan 10 11:39:01 2025 From: ben at zaiboc.net (Ben Zaiboc) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:39:01 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Abundance Economy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c5b6890-ff4f-4f7f-b778-6877fa9978e7@zaiboc.net> On 10/01/2025 02:16,?Stuart LaForge wrote: > It is funny to me as a Yank, how your misspelling of aluminum... I'm not going to rise to that, we all know where it leads. I think we should just accept that there's English and there's American, and leave it at that. I can't see lebensraum being a problem. I wasn't suggesting that we all live as tightly packed as we would be if we all lived on Madagascar! That was just an illustration of how much area on earth there is, compared to how many people there currently are. I'm not going to try to do the maths, but it's not difficult to see that we could probably 10x the number of humans and still have plenty of room, given the right level of technology. Anyway, that's not really relevant to the concept of an abundance economy, we won't have 10x the current population for a while, if ever, and I suspect by that time, technology will make the world (and people) unrecognisable from our current perspective. I don't see that biology is an obstacle to an abundance economy. Global population seems to be declining at the moment, and better living conditions fuel that trend, as far as we can see. Abundance economy means amazingly good living conditions, by definition, so what other factor is relevant to biology being an obstacle? I can't think of any. The earth can support 8 billion people, it's doing so now, so there's no problem with the chemical resources that our bodies need, so that leaves the other things that we want, rather than need, so we can all live happy lives. Basically, it comes down to money, doesn't it. Money, and freedom. I wouldn't suggest doing away with money, that probably would never work, but a certain amount of free money given to every person, to spend how they like, would probably be a good idea. Enough to cover basic needs - food, shelter, transport, access to medical treatment, education, entertainment, communication (including internet access, or whatever equivalent emerges), and probably a couple of other things I haven't thought of. Gainful employment (as in working for money) would then be an option rather than a necessity, and people who want to, could take up non-money-making occupations without any downside. Where would all this money come from? The same place it comes from now, except instead of humans toiling to produce the goods, robots and other automatic systems would. Specialised AIs would control the robots. Transition to an abundance economy would probably be gradual, via a modest Universal Basic Income first. The issue of 'who do the fruits of the labour of the robots belong to?' would have to be sorted out in a way that benefits the general population, not just a small group of people that own the robots. Perhaps some way of creating 'ownerless' robots could emerge. AI would probably help with this. If corporations can be legal persons, AIs could too, and they would be in charge of some of the robotic systems, and ensure that the money generated doesn't just enrich a few already rich people, but goes to the general populace instead, as an 'automation dividend'. As the benefits of this system become more widely understood and appreciated, it would probably spread, and gradually ramp up the amount of money available to distribute to everyone. The 'Freedom' aspect is a different kettle of fish. Even those of us in the 'free west' are constantly confronted with restrictions on our freedom, and it only gets worse as time goes on. Some of the restrictions are driven by ideology, religious or otherwise. Many of them are driven by money. Rich people want to be richer, often to the detriment of others, and oppose any move to prevent that. This has resulted in ridiculous copyright laws, hostility to free distribution of culture and open access to research, etc. This is a thorny issue, and I'm not sure how it can be tackled. Supporting things like the Freedom to Tinker movement, open-source things and the EFF are ok, but that's only nibbling at the edges of a huge problem. This might be a swamp that we're not capable of getting ourselves out of, and need the help of more intelligent beings for. -- Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Fri Jan 10 23:07:45 2025 From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:07:45 -0800 Subject: [ExI] StratoSolar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I worked (unpaid) for Ed Kelly for over a year on the first (thermal) version of StratoSolar. http://theoildrum.com/node/8323 Storage was thermal, 35,000 cubic meters of firebrick. The second version was PV at 12 miles up. Storage was weights lifted as much as 12 miles. Keith On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 2:26?PM BillK via extropy-chat wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 at 20:23, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat > wrote: > > > > StratoSolar (Stratospheric (20km) tethered photovoltaic aerostats with built-in kinetic energy storage) > > > > http://www.stratosolar.com/ > > > > This is something that I would have expected some people on this list to know about, and have an opinion on, but I don't see any posts about it for at least the last three years. > > > > > -- > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gemini AI thinks StratoSolar is not practicable at present. > The project costs, technical problems and legal problems, etc. are too big. > While ground-based solar and wind tech improves every year. > > BillK > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat From pharos at gmail.com Sun Jan 12 20:39:52 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 20:39:52 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Rebuild Los Angeles With Ultra High Strength Concrete Message-ID: Rebuild Los Angeles With Ultra High Strength Concrete and UHPC Domes Where Possible January 12, 2025 by Brian Wang Quotes: Ultra-high performance concrete (UHPC) is an enhanced fibrous and cementitious concrete with high compressive strength (120?250 MPa) particle packing density (0.825?0.855, tensile strength (15?20 MPa) and extraordinary durability. UHPC has 300 times the ductility and energy absorption of high performance concrete (HPC) and three to sixteen times the compressive strength of regular concrete. About $500 million of the billions spent on the Freedom Tower was the UHPC concrete. It has stronger material than the old Minute Man nuclear silos. The large amount of UHPC has moved it into the mainstream higher end option for skyscrapers, bridges and roads. The Cost to Make a Building Fire Resistant Would be More Than Committing to Ultra-high Strength Concrete for Better Protection. ------------------- Sounds like a good idea. Is it feasible? BillK From dsunley at gmail.com Sun Jan 12 21:41:55 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:41:55 -0700 Subject: [ExI] AI designs chips that humans don't understand In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's a fun anecdote from the late 80's or early 90's. A lab was using a small AI (probably genetic algorithms) to generate FPGA gate layouts for a small circuit that could reliably distinguish between audio samples of arbitrary speakers saying "yes" or "no". They were trying to get a reliable circuit that could do this using only 100 logic gates. And they did it. Sort of. The winning circuit was /weird/. Like, no one could figure out how it was doing what it was doing. It didn't make any sense. Also, it had gates that were disconnected from the main logic flow, but if the researchers removed them, the circuit would no longer function. Also also, it turned out the circuit only worked at the precise temperature they did the testing at. What they eventually puzzled out was that this particular solution was using the conductivity of the underlying layer of the chip to build up a cascade of electrical field waves /in the substrate of the chip/ that interfered with each other throughout the circuit and peaked at the output with a positive or negative result. So yeah, unconstrained AIs can generate transhuman-quality weirdness, even (and perhaps especially) when you're not trying. and they were already doing that 30 years ago. As for what could possibly go wrong, this is a major plot point in Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep." There is a species of intelligent plants who are utterly dependent on electronic prostheses to move and speak, and those prostheses have been designed by transhuman AIs and are utterly impenetrable to mere mortal software engineers. Suffice to say, it doesn't go well. --------------------------- Man, remember how we used to talk about this in the 90s? If you'd told us that in 2025, human-level (or near) chatbots were the hot new thing, and we got there by simply training a fancy neural net to predict the next word in a block of text, using the entire corpus of human literature as digitized on the internet as training data, and that the same AI was pretty darned good at coding because there was a massive open-source code repository in it's training data, I don't know what we'd have thought. On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 2:12?PM BillK via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > AI slashes cost and time for chip design, but that is not all > By John Sullivan on January 6, 2025 > > < > https://engineering.princeton.edu/news/2025/01/06/ai-slashes-cost-and-time-chip-design-not-all > > > Quotes: > What is more, the AI behind the new system has produced strange new > designs featuring unusual patterns of circuitry. Kaushik Sengupta, the > lead researcher, said the designs were unintuitive and unlikely to be > developed by a human mind. But they frequently offer marked > improvements over even the best standard chips. > > ?We are coming up with structures that are complex and look random > shaped and when connected with circuits, they create previously > unachievable performance. Humans cannot really understand them, but > they can work better,? said Sengupta, a professor of electrical and > computer engineering and co-director of NextG, Princeton?s industry > partnership program to develop next-generation communications. > --------------------- > > Now, what could possibly go wrong? > > BillK > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Sun Jan 12 21:47:17 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:47:17 -0700 Subject: [ExI] AI designs chips that humans don't understand In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: More info on the origin of the anecdote here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18461565 On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 2:41?PM Darin Sunley wrote: > There's a fun anecdote from the late 80's or early 90's. A lab was using a > small AI (probably genetic algorithms) to generate FPGA gate layouts for a > small circuit that could reliably distinguish between audio samples of > arbitrary speakers saying "yes" or "no". They were trying to get a reliable > circuit that could do this using only 100 logic gates. > > And they did it. Sort of. The winning circuit was /weird/. Like, no one > could figure out how it was doing what it was doing. It didn't make any > sense. Also, it had gates that were disconnected from the main logic flow, > but if the researchers removed them, the circuit would no longer function. > Also also, it turned out the circuit only worked at the precise temperature > they did the testing at. > > What they eventually puzzled out was that this particular solution was > using the conductivity of the underlying layer of the chip to build up a > cascade of electrical field waves /in the substrate of the chip/ that > interfered with each other throughout the circuit and peaked at the output > with a positive or negative result. > > So yeah, unconstrained AIs can generate transhuman-quality weirdness, even > (and perhaps especially) when you're not trying. and they were already > doing that 30 years ago. > > As for what could possibly go wrong, this is a major plot point in Vernor > Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep." There is a species of intelligent plants > who are utterly dependent on electronic prostheses to move and speak, and > those prostheses have been designed by transhuman AIs and are utterly > impenetrable to mere mortal software engineers. Suffice to say, it doesn't > go well. > > --------------------------- > > Man, remember how we used to talk about this in the 90s? If you'd told us > that in 2025, human-level (or near) chatbots were the hot new thing, and we > got there by simply training a fancy neural net to predict the next word in > a block of text, using the entire corpus of human literature as digitized > on the internet as training data, and that the same AI was pretty darned > good at coding because there was a massive open-source code repository in > it's training data, I don't know what we'd have thought. > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 2:12?PM BillK via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > >> AI slashes cost and time for chip design, but that is not all >> By John Sullivan on January 6, 2025 >> >> < >> https://engineering.princeton.edu/news/2025/01/06/ai-slashes-cost-and-time-chip-design-not-all >> > >> Quotes: >> What is more, the AI behind the new system has produced strange new >> designs featuring unusual patterns of circuitry. Kaushik Sengupta, the >> lead researcher, said the designs were unintuitive and unlikely to be >> developed by a human mind. But they frequently offer marked >> improvements over even the best standard chips. >> >> ?We are coming up with structures that are complex and look random >> shaped and when connected with circuits, they create previously >> unachievable performance. Humans cannot really understand them, but >> they can work better,? said Sengupta, a professor of electrical and >> computer engineering and co-director of NextG, Princeton?s industry >> partnership program to develop next-generation communications. >> --------------------- >> >> Now, what could possibly go wrong? >> >> BillK >> >> _______________________________________________ >> extropy-chat mailing list >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Sun Jan 12 21:50:44 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:50:44 -0700 Subject: [ExI] AI designs chips that humans don't understand In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those who do not remember pre-AI science fiction are doomed to repeat it. Those who do remember pre-AI science fiction are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it. "At last! We have managed to create the Torment Nexus from the seminal science fiction novel "Don't Build The Torment Nexus"!" On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 2:47?PM Darin Sunley wrote: > More info on the origin of the anecdote here: > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18461565 > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 2:41?PM Darin Sunley wrote: > >> There's a fun anecdote from the late 80's or early 90's. A lab was using >> a small AI (probably genetic algorithms) to generate FPGA gate layouts for >> a small circuit that could reliably distinguish between audio samples of >> arbitrary speakers saying "yes" or "no". They were trying to get a reliable >> circuit that could do this using only 100 logic gates. >> >> And they did it. Sort of. The winning circuit was /weird/. Like, no one >> could figure out how it was doing what it was doing. It didn't make any >> sense. Also, it had gates that were disconnected from the main logic flow, >> but if the researchers removed them, the circuit would no longer function. >> Also also, it turned out the circuit only worked at the precise temperature >> they did the testing at. >> >> What they eventually puzzled out was that this particular solution was >> using the conductivity of the underlying layer of the chip to build up a >> cascade of electrical field waves /in the substrate of the chip/ that >> interfered with each other throughout the circuit and peaked at the output >> with a positive or negative result. >> >> So yeah, unconstrained AIs can generate transhuman-quality weirdness, >> even (and perhaps especially) when you're not trying. and they were already >> doing that 30 years ago. >> >> As for what could possibly go wrong, this is a major plot point in Vernor >> Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep." There is a species of intelligent plants >> who are utterly dependent on electronic prostheses to move and speak, and >> those prostheses have been designed by transhuman AIs and are utterly >> impenetrable to mere mortal software engineers. Suffice to say, it doesn't >> go well. >> >> --------------------------- >> >> Man, remember how we used to talk about this in the 90s? If you'd told us >> that in 2025, human-level (or near) chatbots were the hot new thing, and we >> got there by simply training a fancy neural net to predict the next word in >> a block of text, using the entire corpus of human literature as digitized >> on the internet as training data, and that the same AI was pretty darned >> good at coding because there was a massive open-source code repository in >> it's training data, I don't know what we'd have thought. >> >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 2:12?PM BillK via extropy-chat < >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: >> >>> AI slashes cost and time for chip design, but that is not all >>> By John Sullivan on January 6, 2025 >>> >>> < >>> https://engineering.princeton.edu/news/2025/01/06/ai-slashes-cost-and-time-chip-design-not-all >>> > >>> Quotes: >>> What is more, the AI behind the new system has produced strange new >>> designs featuring unusual patterns of circuitry. Kaushik Sengupta, the >>> lead researcher, said the designs were unintuitive and unlikely to be >>> developed by a human mind. But they frequently offer marked >>> improvements over even the best standard chips. >>> >>> ?We are coming up with structures that are complex and look random >>> shaped and when connected with circuits, they create previously >>> unachievable performance. Humans cannot really understand them, but >>> they can work better,? said Sengupta, a professor of electrical and >>> computer engineering and co-director of NextG, Princeton?s industry >>> partnership program to develop next-generation communications. >>> --------------------- >>> >>> Now, what could possibly go wrong? >>> >>> BillK >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> extropy-chat mailing list >>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org >>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsunley at gmail.com Sun Jan 12 21:55:08 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:55:08 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Rebuild Los Angeles With Ultra High Strength Concrete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At last! We can build the Caves of Steel from Isaac Asimov's seminal science fiction novel, "The Caves of Steel are Awful". :D On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 1:42?PM BillK via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > Rebuild Los Angeles With Ultra High Strength Concrete and UHPC Domes > Where Possible > January 12, 2025 by Brian Wang > > < > https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2025/01/rebuild-los-angeles-with-ultra-high-strength-concrete-and-uhpc-domes-where-possible.html > > > Quotes: > Ultra-high performance concrete (UHPC) is an enhanced fibrous and > cementitious concrete with high compressive strength (120?250 MPa) > particle packing density (0.825?0.855, tensile strength (15?20 MPa) > and extraordinary durability. UHPC has 300 times the ductility and > energy absorption of high performance concrete (HPC) and three to > sixteen times the compressive strength of regular concrete. About $500 > million of the billions spent on the Freedom Tower was the UHPC > concrete. It has stronger material than the old Minute Man nuclear > silos. The large amount of UHPC has moved it into the mainstream > higher end option for skyscrapers, bridges and roads. > > The Cost to Make a Building Fire Resistant Would be More Than > Committing to Ultra-high Strength Concrete for Better Protection. > ------------------- > > Sounds like a good idea. Is it feasible? > > BillK > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Tue Jan 14 13:37:54 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:37:54 +0000 Subject: [ExI] More AI = Less Human thinking Message-ID: Increased AI use linked to eroding critical thinking skills by Justin Jackson January 13, 2025 Quote: AI's influence is growing fast. A quick search of AI-related science stories reveals how fundamental a tool it has become. Thousands of AI-assisted, AI-supported and AI-driven analyses and decision-making tools help scientists improve their research. An attractive aspect of AI tools is cognitive offloading, where individuals rely on the tools to reduce mental effort. As the technology is both very new and rapidly being adopted in unforeseeable ways, questions arise about its potential long-term impacts on cognitive functions like memory, attention, and problem-solving under prolonged periods or volume of cognitive offloading taking place. ------------- Obviously, I immediately off-loaded my critical thinking and asked for an AI opinion. Perplexity AI thinks - The article suggests that we might be entering a stage of human development where traditional critical thinking skills become less relevant. As AI potentially surpasses human capabilities in various domains, from medical diagnostics to environmental problem-solving, the need for human-derived critical thinking might diminish As AI becomes more integral to daily life, finding a balance between leveraging its benefits and maintaining critical thinking skills will be crucial, at least as long as these skills retain their value in society. --------------- That final comment seems to be hinting that you poor humans will soon be able to give up thinking and just leave that difficult task to us superior AIs. BillK From pharos at gmail.com Wed Jan 15 16:48:22 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:48:22 +0000 Subject: [ExI] Rebuild Los Angeles With Ultra High Strength Concrete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 at 21:57, Darin Sunley via extropy-chat wrote: > > At last! We can build the Caves of Steel from Isaac Asimov's seminal science fiction novel, "The Caves of Steel are Awful". :D > _______________________________________________ That's what architects are designing now for fire risk areas. But they are trying to make concrete design attractive. BillK Quotes: No shrubs and lots of concrete: This is what a fire-resistant house looks like There?s no such thing as a fire-proof house, but certain design choices can help protect a home during a wildfire. By Nate Berg 15 Jan 2025 She designs homes that set out, from the start, to do away with many of the physical features that make older homes susceptible to fire, from combustible materials to tinderbox landscaping to building forms that practically lure in flying embers. ?We need to stop building like it?s 1970,? she says. Building like it?s 2025, it seems, means building for fire in Southern California. While there?s no such thing as a fireproof house, there are ways to design buildings that help them resist fire, even amid uncontained infernos. ------------------- From spike at rainier66.com Thu Jan 16 16:07:28 2025 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 08:07:28 -0800 Subject: [ExI] rebuild los angeles In-Reply-To: <002401db6820$dc841f10$958c5d30$@rainier66.com> References: <002401db6820$dc841f10$958c5d30$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <003901db6830$be6f0f70$3b4d2e50$@rainier66.com> From: spike at rainier66.com . > _______________________________________________ >.That's what architects are designing now for fire risk areas. But they are trying to make concrete design attractive. BillK Quotes: >.No shrubs and lots of concrete: This is what a fire-resistant house looks like There's no such thing as a fire-proof house, but certain design choices can help protect a home during a wildfire. By Nate Berg 15 Jan 2025 >.She designs homes that set out, from the start, to do away with many of the physical features that make older homes susceptible to fire.. ------------------- _______________________________________________ After the big 1989 earthquake, many California building codes changed. The homes built since 1992 have features such as narrow eves, crack-stop stucco externals, concrete shingle with metal lathe interfaces everywhere. The home can burn if ignited from within, but is quite unlikely to be ignited by falling embers. A neighborhood built after 1992 is highly unlikely to combust in a chain reaction, as was seen in the Los Angeles area. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Fri Jan 17 18:49:19 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:49:19 +0000 Subject: [ExI] New video of Unitree G1 Bionic: Agile Upgrade robot Message-ID: This 1 minute video shows the robot jogging around town and up and down hills over rough ground. The movement is very human-like. Impressive! BillK From dsunley at gmail.com Fri Jan 17 18:54:21 2025 From: dsunley at gmail.com (Darin Sunley) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 11:54:21 -0700 Subject: [ExI] New video of Unitree G1 Bionic: Agile Upgrade robot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At last! Now we can build the army of agile humanoid robots hooked to a massive central intelligence engine, from Will Smith's seminal movie "Don't Hook the Army of Agile Humanoid Robots to a Massive Central Intelligence Engine." :D On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 11:51?AM BillK via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > This 1 minute video shows the robot jogging around town and up and > down hills over rough ground. The movement is very human-like. > > > > Impressive! > BillK > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avant at sollegro.com Sat Jan 18 02:34:25 2025 From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:34:25 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Xenophobic Memes Message-ID: Warhammer 40,000 which began in the 80s as miniatures wargame by a company in the UK with an elaborate canon or "lore" to become what seems like a cultural phenomenon with movies, video games, an Amazon series, and an incredible plethora of fan art of all types. The premise of Warhammer 40K is that in the 41st millenium, the Imperium of Mankind spans a million worlds and is ruled by a Council of Lords. The Imperium is a theocracy that worships the Emperor of Mankind, a very powerful psychic that has been in a coma for thousands of years and kept alive by advanced life support and human sacrifice while he serves as a psychic beacon called the Astronomicon that enables starships piloted by a guild of psychic navigators to always sense the direction and distance to Holy Terra, the capital of the Imperium. Because the Imperium is so large and spread out, it is at perpetual war with every space faring civilization in the universe. The Imperium has bioengineered transhuman super soldiers soldiers called Astartes or space marines. Because humanity is beset by enemies on all sides, the Imperial religion preaches hatred and intolerance for xenos, a derogatory for any non-human intelligence, mutants, and heretics. Here is a music video inspired by the franchise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK3J1CNgG4&list=RDMM&start_radio=1&rv=6jHORvg8hOo The video features the Adepta Soritas, essentially warrior-nuns that worship the Emperor, fighting against the Necron which are an ancient-race of uploaded alien beings that hate all biological life. The song itself is called "The Litany of Hate". In light of rise of AI, and Keith Henson's views on Evo Psych, I just thought it was a curious time for this particular franchise with its xenophobic humanist philosophy to become so popular, especially amongst women. Stuart LaForge From avant at sollegro.com Sat Jan 18 02:41:00 2025 From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:41:00 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Xenophobic Memes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <500a7313a601b3bc84dc23d816bcc54e@sollegro.com> Oops, wrong link. Here is the real link to the Littany Hate video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jHORvg8hOo Stuart LaForge On 2025-01-17 18:34, Stuart LaForge wrote: > Warhammer 40,000 which began in the 80s as miniatures wargame by a > company in the UK with an elaborate canon or "lore" to become what > seems like a cultural phenomenon with movies, video games, an Amazon > series, and an incredible plethora of fan art of all types. The premise > of Warhammer 40K is that in the 41st millenium, the Imperium of Mankind > spans a million worlds and is ruled by a Council of Lords. The Imperium > is a theocracy that worships the Emperor of Mankind, a very powerful > psychic that has been in a coma for thousands of years and kept alive > by advanced life support and human sacrifice while he serves as a > psychic beacon called the Astronomicon that enables starships piloted > by a guild of psychic navigators to always sense the direction and > distance to Holy Terra, the capital of the Imperium. Because the > Imperium is so large and spread out, it is at perpetual war with every > space faring civilization in the universe. The Imperium has > bioengineered transhuman super soldiers soldiers called Astartes or > space marines. Because humanity is beset by enemies on all sides, the > Imperial religion preaches hatred and intolerance for xenos, a > derogatory for any non-human intelligence, mutants, and heretics. > > Here is a music video inspired by the franchise. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK3J1CNgG4&list=RDMM&start_radio=1&rv=6jHORvg8hOo > > The video features the Adepta Soritas, essentially warrior-nuns that > worship the Emperor, fighting against the Necron which are an > ancient-race of uploaded alien beings that hate all biological life. > The song itself is called "The Litany of Hate". In light of rise of AI, > and Keith Henson's views on Evo Psych, I just thought it was a curious > time for this particular franchise with its xenophobic humanist > philosophy to become so popular, especially amongst women. > > Stuart LaForge From efc at disroot.org Sat Jan 18 13:54:35 2025 From: efc at disroot.org (efc at disroot.org) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 14:54:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ExI] Xenophobic Memes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat wrote: > Warhammer 40,000 which began in the 80s as miniatures wargame by a company in > the UK with an elaborate canon or "lore" to become what seems like a cultural > phenomenon with movies, video games, an Amazon series, and an incredible > plethora of fan art of all types. The premise of Warhammer 40K is that in the > 41st millenium, the Imperium of Mankind spans a million worlds and is ruled > by a Council of Lords. The Imperium is a theocracy that worships the Emperor > of Mankind, a very powerful psychic that has been in a coma for thousands of > years and kept alive by advanced life support and human sacrifice while he > serves as a psychic beacon called the Astronomicon that enables starships > piloted by a guild of psychic navigators to always sense the direction and > distance to Holy Terra, the capital of the Imperium. Because the Imperium is > so large and spread out, it is at perpetual war with every space faring > civilization in the universe. The Imperium has bioengineered transhuman super > soldiers soldiers called Astartes or space marines. Because humanity is beset > by enemies on all sides, the Imperial religion preaches hatred and > intolerance for xenos, a derogatory for any non-human intelligence, mutants, > and heretics. Thank you for sharing. Brings back memories from my youth although I never was a hard core 40k fan, I did appreciate it from a distance. > Here is a music video inspired by the franchise. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK3J1CNgG4&list=RDMM&start_radio=1&rv=6jHORvg8hOo > > The video features the Adepta Soritas, essentially warrior-nuns that worship > the Emperor, fighting against the Necron which are an ancient-race of > uploaded alien beings that hate all biological life. The song itself is > called "The Litany of Hate". In light of rise of AI, and Keith Henson's views > on Evo Psych, I just thought it was a curious time for this particular > franchise with its xenophobic humanist philosophy to become so popular, > especially amongst women. Maybe there's not much growth to be had for the franchinse among the male nerd communities, so a logical step would be and try to sell it to the women? You could grow your market with 100% if you succeded! > Stuart LaForge > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > From pharos at gmail.com Sat Jan 18 14:11:54 2025 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 14:11:54 +0000 Subject: [ExI] rebuild los angeles In-Reply-To: <003901db6830$be6f0f70$3b4d2e50$@rainier66.com> References: <002401db6820$dc841f10$958c5d30$@rainier66.com> <003901db6830$be6f0f70$3b4d2e50$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 at 16:07, wrote: > After the big 1989 earthquake, many California building codes changed. The homes built since 1992 have features such as narrow eves, crack-stop stucco externals, concrete shingle with metal lathe interfaces everywhere. The home can burn if ignited from within, but is quite unlikely to be ignited by falling embers. A neighborhood built after 1992 is highly unlikely to combust in a chain reaction, as was seen in the Los Angeles area. > > spike > ---------------------------- Why these houses survived the L.A. fires. More than 10,000 houses burned in Los Angeles. But fire-resistant design helped keep some standing even on blocks where the rest were lost. By Adele Peters 01-18-2025 Quote: The neighborhood was devastated. On one side of the street, around 60 houses in a row had burned. But the newly built house was still standing. In part, it was luck. But the property had also been designed with a few extra steps that made it less likely to burn?and could be an example for others when rebuilding begins in the burn zone. ------------ Looks like fire protection and clearing a zone around the house works. BillK From avant at sollegro.com Sat Jan 18 15:54:24 2025 From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 07:54:24 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Xenophobic Memes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <245b58a92827a51607f68993919eef2f@sollegro.com> On 2025-01-18 05:54, efc--- via extropy-chat wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat wrote: > >> Warhammer 40,000 which began in the 80s as miniatures wargame by a >> company in the UK with an elaborate canon or "lore" to become what >> seems like a cultural phenomenon with movies, video games, an Amazon >> series, and an incredible plethora of fan art of all types. The >> premise of Warhammer 40K is that in the 41st millenium, the Imperium >> of Mankind spans a million worlds and is ruled by a Council of Lords. >> The Imperium is a theocracy that worships the Emperor of Mankind, a >> very powerful psychic that has been in a coma for thousands of years >> and kept alive by advanced life support and human sacrifice while he >> serves as a psychic beacon called the Astronomicon that enables >> starships piloted by a guild of psychic navigators to always sense the >> direction and distance to Holy Terra, the capital of the Imperium. >> Because the Imperium is so large and spread out, it is at perpetual >> war with every space faring civilization in the universe. The Imperium >> has bioengineered transhuman super soldiers soldiers called Astartes >> or space marines. Because humanity is beset by enemies on all sides, >> the Imperial religion preaches hatred and intolerance for xenos, a >> derogatory for any non-human intelligence, mutants, and heretics. > > Thank you for sharing. Brings back memories from my youth although I > never was a hard core 40k fan, I did appreciate it from a distance. > >> Here is a music video inspired by the franchise. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jHORvg8hOo >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK3J1CNgG4&list=RDMM&start_radio=1&rv=6jHORvg8hOo >> >> The video features the Adepta Soritas, essentially warrior-nuns that >> worship the Emperor, fighting against the Necron which are an >> ancient-race of uploaded alien beings that hate all biological life. >> The song itself is called "The Litany of Hate". In light of rise of >> AI, and Keith Henson's views on Evo Psych, I just thought it was a >> curious time for this particular franchise with its xenophobic >> humanist philosophy to become so popular, especially amongst women. > > Maybe there's not much growth to be had for the franchinse among the > male nerd communities, so a logical step would be and try to sell it to > the women? You could grow your market with 100% if you succeded! Yes, there are definitely market feedback forces in play, but the ratio of licensed material out there versus the amount of fan art is surprisingly small. And a lot of the fan art is of professional quality. Take this video "Astartes" for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hgjuFfn3A This animation is legendary because it is the work of a single fan who did this unlicensed and unpaid for YouTube views. Notice that despite the complete absence of all dialogue, you get a distinct impression of the violent xenophobic doctrine of the imperial religion. But my larger question is what does it mean in terms of evolutionary psychology when women are beating the war drum and spreading xenophobic memes? Stuart LaForge From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Sat Jan 18 16:49:52 2025 From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 08:49:52 -0800 Subject: [ExI] Xenophobic Memes In-Reply-To: <245b58a92827a51607f68993919eef2f@sollegro.com> References: <245b58a92827a51607f68993919eef2f@sollegro.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 7:55?AM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat wrote: snip > But my larger question is what does it mean in terms of evolutionary > psychology when women are beating the war drum and spreading xenophobic > memes? https://arelzedblog.wordpress.com/2024/12/01/berserk/ Keith > Stuart LaForge > > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat From efc at disroot.org Sat Jan 18 17:21:43 2025 From: efc at disroot.org (efc at disroot.org) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 18:21:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ExI] Xenophobic Memes In-Reply-To: <245b58a92827a51607f68993919eef2f@sollegro.com> References: <245b58a92827a51607f68993919eef2f@sollegro.com> Message-ID: <1450e5a7-0806-45a8-9da1-dc2419e51701@disroot.org> On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, Stuart LaForge wrote: >> Maybe there's not much growth to be had for the franchinse among the male >> nerd communities, so a logical step would be and try to sell it to the >> women? You could grow your market with 100% if you succeded! > > Yes, there are definitely market feedback forces in play, but the ratio of > licensed material out there versus the amount of fan art is surprisingly > small. And a lot of the fan art is of professional quality. Take this video > "Astartes" for example. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hgjuFfn3A > > This animation is legendary because it is the work of a single fan who did > this unlicensed and unpaid for YouTube views. Notice that despite the > complete absence of all dialogue, you get a distinct impression of the > violent xenophobic doctrine of the imperial religion. Amazing stuff! Would be nice with some voice actors as well. =) > But my larger question is what does it mean in terms of evolutionary > psychology when women are beating the war drum and spreading xenophobic > memes? I don't think anyone thinks of it as spreading xenophobic memes. Thinking back at many decades of sci fi and aliens, humans vs aliens is not a new plot. Internally to the story, it makes sense, and you cheer for the humans, but that doesn't mean that you go on to hate anyone not from your neighbourhood, city, country etc. So my take on it, is probably doesn't mean much. But it would be fun to hear what a female fan has to say on the topic, so bring them on! =) > Stuart LaForge > > > >