[ExI] Just say no to Google

[ExiMod]

Historically, the Extropians mailing list originated in the good ol' days when people used dial-up phone lines to download their emails, then signed off to minimize phone charges. Today, developed countries have always-on broadband connections.
However, in rural areas and developing countries, dial-up access is still common.

Exi-chat is a worldwide mailing list, including developing countries, and allows for all types of email clients and computers.

This is why we have a message size limit of 160 KB, which means that large images cannot be posted to the list.

This is apart from all the Google problems mentioned by John Klos.

So far as I know there is no intention to change the Exi-chat list.

Regards, Eximod


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Friday, November 14th, 2025 at 5:14 PM, John Klos via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
> Do you want a monoculture? Because that's how you get a monoculture ;)
> 
> First, Google wants the whole world to move to them for all email. They feed
> everything that goes through them to their "AI", they sell access to private
> information, and it's more than likely they sell unfettered access to all data
> to the US government. Even though lists in general are public, the idea that we
> should normalize having for-profit corporate entities have access to all data
> everywhere is just wrong and broken.
> 
> Second, as more and more people who don't know any better move to Google, they
> have less incentive to properly interoperate with the rest of the world. Google
> Groups functionality is limited in email clients that aren't basically web
> browsers, which means that people with older browsers, older computers and/or
> non-mainstream browsers or OSes have issues using Google Groups. Signing in is
> more problematic in non-western countries and with less common software.
> 
> Their filters are unknowable. They do what they want and don't tell anyone what
> they do, so we have to guess. This means they're non-deterministic, which is
> why you have to check your spam folder for email that comes from people with
> whom you've corresponded for years. Sometimes the filters are outright
> censorship:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google
> 
> But most importantly, if someone lodges complaints and Google decides to take
> action, what will you do? There is literally no way to talk to an actual human
> at Google unless you 1) pay them a shitton of money or 2) you physically go do
> one of their offices and wait outside.
> 
> Even if you can talk to a human at Google, can you talk to one that can
> actually get anything done? Can you find out why your list was taken down? Can
> you refute the complaints and get the list put back in place?
> 
> If you think this is rhetorical, consider how many huge YouTube channels can't
> communicate with YouTube (which Google owns, obviously) such as the "Legal
> Eagle" channel which considered suing Google because of the inability to
> communicate with actual humans, or (sometimes huge) artists who get "copyright
> strikes" for their own work, and who can't get those strikes removed even when
> they prove the work is their own, or people or companies who lose access to
> their Gmail accounts and can't even find out why until a big enough fuss is
> made in social media for someone at Google to take notice.
> 
> As the administrator of the servers hosting extropy.org and this mailing list,
> you should know that in the last few months I've gotten quite a number of
> (probably mostly "AI" generated) complaints demanding that the site and lists
> be taken down. It seems to be a concerted campaign to hurt the community. My
> guess is because of "trans" being part of the word "transhuman", but I don't
> know for sure because the complaints have no actual content (no examples of
> wrongdoing or specific claims). Some say that the site and lists are
> "anti-family" and "harmful to children", but offer no examples.
> 
> Would this campaign work to get a list taken down from Google Groups? Would you
> want to take that chance, particularly when you have no recourse if it does
> work?
> 
> Also, Google isn't as reliable as you might guess. When there are problems, the
> complete lack of ability to communicate with them has conditioned people to
> believing the problem is with the Internet connection, the local computer, the
> browser, et cetera. I see Google issues all the time. This was just two days
> ago:
> 
> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/live/google-down-live-updates-outage-11-12-25
> 
> So do you really want the list to move to a megacorporation with whom mortals
> can't communicate?
> 
> Instead I might suggest Extropolis consider moving AWAY from Google. You never
> know when something will go wrong. Or if not move away from Google, at least
> maintain a non-Google Groups backup so things can't be lost or manipulated.
> 
> John
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