[ExI] Why “Everyone Dies” Gets AGI All Wrong by Ben Goertzel

[Keith Henson]

Ben, I don't think you have thought it through.

Technology to upload should permit memory updating in a biological
brain.  Which means you can upload for a weekend and resume being a
meat human on Monday.  The only limit that might be imposed is a "one
at a time" rule for practical physical reasons

If AI clinics like the one in The Clinic Seed become common, I don't
see how religious or authoritarian regimes can do anything about
people uploading.

The rights of uploads are an unsolved problem.  On the other hand, an
upload does not need much.

I am familiar with the UN Declaration of Human Rights.  See Star Laws,
which my wife and I wrote 43 years ago.

Keith


On Sat, Oct 4, 2025 at 3:23 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On 04/10/2025 04:00, Keith Henson wrote:
> > Uploaded humans living in private spaces don't have to agree on
> > anything.  Their simulated world can be anything they like, including
> > simulated slaves to beat.  Not my ideal world, but I am sure there
> > will be some who want it.
>
> Uploading only solves the problem for people who want to and can upload
> (and have control of their simulations).
>
> I expect it would be very likely that there will be plenty of people who
> want to subjugate 'real' people, in the 'real' world, and would reject
> uploading, as well as plenty of people who are prevented from uploading
> (like everyone in all the autocratic and theocratic regimes for a start,
> so several billion).
>
> Some kind of consensus on the 'correct' (or even acceptable) values is
> extremely unlikely.
>
> The 'Universal declaration of human rights' is a lot less universal than
> you might think, for example. Article 2* in particular is simply false,
> if you take it as stating a fact rather than expressing an aspiration.
> Certainly many, if not most, nations disagree with it in practice. And
> apart from anything else, 'Freedom to upload' isn't in it, of course.
> I'm now wondering if even some western nations might not enact
> legislation to outlaw uploading, once it becomes possible. It wouldn't
> surprise me, there are plenty of people who regard it as tantamount to
> suicide, even among people who regard themselves as transhumanists or
> materialists. It wouldn't be hard for a government to conclude that it
> should be illegal (or that uploads don't count as human, and don't have
> any rights** at all). Look at how most governments responded to
> cryptocurrencies. If anything threatens their control, they will oppose
> it. This is just as true of liberal democracies as it is of all the
> other forms of government, the main advantage of democracies is that
> they change quicker and with less disruption than more traditional
> dictatorships.
>
> Voluntary agreement on a single set of values to cover all humans is not
> just unlikely, it's probably impossible (just another reason why
> Yudkowsky's book is wrong).
>
> --
> Ben
>
> * "Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this
>   Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour,
> sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social
> origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction
> shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or
> international status of the country or territory to which a person
> belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under
> any other limitation of sovereignty"
>
>
> ** I don't remember who it was that pointed out that your rights only extend as far as your ability to enforce them.
>
> Ben
>
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