[ExI] Cellular automata, downward causation, and libertarian determinism

[Giulio Prisco]

On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 1:15 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Can downwards causation not exist in a universe whose laws are fully deterministic?
>
> Consider that the neurons push and guide molecules (neurotransmitters) around as much as the molecules define the operation of neurons.
>
> The illusion that causes work only bottom-up I think stems from taking reductionsm too far.
>
> If we can do readily admit that molecules tell neurons how to behave, why are some so reluctant to admit that neurons can also tell molecules how to behave?
>
> I think Roger Sperry gives the best treatment of this in his "Mind, Brain, and Humanist Values" ( https://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/scientists/sperry/Mind_Brain_and_Humanist_Values.html )
>
> Jason
>

Hi Jason. I think it's quite simple: the cosmic operating system
chooses initial conditions, but is not limited to choose all of them
at the same time. Rather, the cosmic operating system chooses
"initial" conditions distributed in time, just like in my little game.
To us, observers limited by time, the universe appears not
deterministic. This is equivalent to Nicolas Gisin's intuitionist
physics. OK, the universe is still deterministic to an observer that
looks at the global history from outside time. But I think the cosmic
operating system doesn't make enough choices to fix one unique
timeline, and this is another, ontological source of nondeterminism.
More in my last book (I think I sent it to you?).
G.

> On Sat, Oct 25, 2025, 1:12 AM Giulio Prisco via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cellular automata, downward causation, and libertarian determinism
>> (2). Some more thoughts, and a Sudoku-like game based on cellular
>> automata.
>> https://www.turingchurch.com/p/cellular-automata-downward-causation-644
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