[ExI] Internet age verification spreads worldwide

[Adrian Tymes]

The analogy to sports doesn't hold up.  For example, exposing minors
to depictions of sports does not generally lead to objectification of
those who play sports.  Likewise, what studies there have been show
that exposing minors to sports leads to decreased, not increased,
depression and anxiety.  This isn't because of censorship or the lack
thereof, but because of what it actually is.  (Among the major
inherent differences: sex is most often done in private with only two
people participating.  Most sports happen in public with far more than
two participants.)

On Fri, Sep 5, 2025 at 12:30 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On 02/09/2025 20:32, Adrian Tymes wrote:
>
> Not disagreeing with the rest of what you said, but this -
> specifically, the target of exposing minors to pornography - has been
> studied, and while not all of the claims (by any stretch) were found
> true, a nonzero amount did hold up.  I asked an AI to summarize:
>
> ---
>
> The commonly cited harms of exposing minors to pornography fall into
> several categories, though the research quality varies significantly
> across different types of effects:
>
> Commonly Cited Harms
>
> Sexual Development and Behavior:
>
> Unrealistic expectations about sex, bodies, and sexual performance
> Earlier initiation of sexual activity
> Increased likelihood of engaging in risky sexual behaviors
> Normalization of aggressive or violent sexual acts
> Confusion about consent and healthy sexual relationships
>
> Psychological and Emotional Effects:
>
> Increased rates of depression and anxiety
> Body image issues and self-esteem problems
> Potential for developing compulsive sexual behaviors
> Difficulty forming healthy intimate relationships
>
> Social and Relational Impact:
>
> Objectification of others, particularly women
> Changed attitudes toward gender roles and relationships
> Potential impact on academic performance and social functioning
>
> Research Quality and Limitations
>
> The evidence base has significant methodological challenges:
>
> Stronger Evidence Areas:
>
> Correlational studies consistently show associations between
> pornography exposure and earlier sexual initiation, more sexual
> partners, and riskier sexual behaviors
> Research on attitudes shows fairly robust links to more accepting
> views of sexual aggression and objectification
>
> Weaker Evidence Areas:
>
> Causation vs. correlation: Most studies are cross-sectional, making it
> difficult to determine whether pornography exposure causes problems or
> whether teens with existing issues are more likely to seek out
> pornography
> Long-term outcomes: Limited longitudinal research following
> individuals over time
> Dosage effects: Little research on whether different amounts or types
> of exposure have different impacts
>
> Research Challenges:
>
> Ethical constraints limit experimental research with minors
> Self-reporting biases in surveys about sensitive topics
> Rapidly changing technology outpaces research
> Difficulty controlling for other variables (family environment, peer
> influences, etc.)
>
> The scientific consensus generally supports concern about pornography
> exposure in minors, but researchers emphasize that more rigorous
> longitudinal studies are needed to better understand causal
> relationships and identify which young people may be most vulnerable
> to negative effects.
>
>
> Yes, well.
> "Commonly-cited harms" means precisely nothing, except maybe that some people want there to be harms. Nevertheless, let's just accept that, and do a thought-experiment:
>
> If we stigmatised ball games to the same extent we stigmatise sex, then all these things could also be said about ball games, or sports in general (ask the AI to summarise the commonly cited harms of exposing minors to videogames, see if the results are much different).
>
> The problem is not sex and pornography, it's the way we react to it (which boils down to how we have been educated to react to it).
>
> Suppose that the abrahamic religions had decided that sports, instead of sex, was evil and had to be controlled by making people feel guilty about it:
>
>
> “The commonly cited harms of exposing minors to pornography depictions of sport fall into
>
> several categories, though the research quality varies significantly
>
> across different types of effects:
>
>
> Commonly Cited Harms
>
>
> Sporting Development and Behaviour:
>
> Unrealistic expectations about sports, bodies, and sporting performance
>
> Earlier initiation of sporting activity
>
> Increased likelihood of engaging in risky sporting behaviours
>
> Normalization of aggressive or violent sports acts
>
> Confusion about social norms around sports and healthy sporting relationships
>
>
> Psychological and Emotional Effects:
>
> Increased rates of depression and anxiety
>
> Body image issues and self-esteem problems
>
> Potential for developing compulsive sports-related behaviours
>
> Difficulty forming healthy sporting relationships
>
>
> Social and Relational Impact:
>
> Objectification of others, particularly other players
>
> Changed attitudes toward sporting roles and relationships
>
> Potential impact on academic performance and social functioning
>
>
> Research Quality and Limitations
>
> The evidence base has significant methodological challenges:
>
>
> Stronger Evidence Areas:
>
> Correlational studies consistently show associations between
>
> sports exposure and earlier adoptions of sports activities, more sporting
>
> partners, and riskier sports behaviors
>
> Research on attitudes shows fairly robust links to more accepting
>
> views of aggression in sport
>
>
> Weaker Evidence Areas:
>
> Causation vs. correlation: Most studies are cross-sectional, making it
>
> difficult to determine whether sports exposure causes problems or
>
> whether teens with existing issues are more likely to seek out
>
> sports-related material
>
> Long-term outcomes: Limited longitudinal research following
>
> individuals over time
>
> Dosage effects: Little research on whether different amounts or types
>
> of exposure have different impacts
>
>
> Research Challenges:
>
> Ethical constraints limit experimental research with minors
>
> Self-reporting biases in surveys about sensitive topics
>
> Rapidly changing technology outpaces research
>
> Difficulty controlling for other variables (family environment, peer
>
> influences, etc.)
>
>
> The scientific consensus generally supports concern about sports
>
> exposure in minors, but researchers emphasize that more rigorous
>
> longitudinal studies are needed to better understand causal
>
> relationships and identify which young people may be most vulnerable
>
> to negative effects”
>
>
> And, of course, we would see extensive censorship of media featuring sports, a rating system, pixellation of cricket and baseball bats, balls etc. (as well as concern amongst the ‘guardians of morality’ about any object that looks vaguely bat-or-ball-shaped)
>
> The problem is not sex, descriptions or depictions of sex, the problem is our reactions to these things. Learned reactions. Sex can be risky, of course. So can sports. Early exposure to sex/sport can affect people’s lives, leading them to different behaviours than if they hadn’t had this exposure. The same is true of music. And politics. And a host of other things that are seen as perfectly normal and natural.
>
> The answer is education, not restrictions. If you want someone to be a confident sportsman and well-balanced human being, you don’t prevent them from handling (or even seeing!) baseball bats, balls and protective gear, you don’t ‘protect’ them from sports programmes on the TV or the internet. If you want young boxers to keep safe, you don’t prevent them from accessing information about boxing, protective headgear, footage of people being repeatedly bashed about the head and the resultant brain trauma etc., until they turn a certain arbitrary, evenly-applied age.
>
> When I say education, I don’t mean lectures, I mean access to the relevant material, information and discussions, without restrictions, without age limits and without moralising. Nobody thinks this is a bad idea with regard to sports. Why should sex be any different?
>
> We are actively damaging society with all this stupid censorship. We all need to grow up.
>
> --
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat