[ExI] Satoshi Nakamoto

[Adrian Tymes]

Adding Arel back on CC.  (Hi, Keith's wife!  Thank you for putting up
with him and keeping him sane.)

On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 11:38 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 9:00 PM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 2:56 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >> Find a way to demonstrate it on prototype scale.
>> >
>> > Sigh, 100 tons-per-day gasifiers using plasma torches for heat have been done 20 years ago. The main difference here is using induction instead of high maintenance plasma torches.
>>
>> So demonstrate that.
>>
> It has been done, the plant ran for years in Canada.

Yes, but not in your specific configuration.

>> There's also, have YOUR SPECIFIC GASIFIERS been demonstrated?
>>
>> No.  You personally have never operated a gasifier, I'd wager.  You'd
>> think that really really shouldn't matter - only the physics should
>> matter.  But when you get into that kind of money, the people and
>> personal experience really really do matter...in the judgment of those
>> with money, and they are the ones who get to set the rules, regardless
>> of what should be the case.
>
> Agreed. Unfortunately the people who did run gasifiers, some at this scale are dead, the last coal gasifiers in the US were closed in the 1940s when town gas was replaced by natural gas. Come to think about it, that's not entirely true. There is a plant in North Dakota that gasifies 16000 tons of coal a day with oxygen and converts it to methane. It is a different process, burning much of the coal to make syngas. However, I am sure one of their engineers could be recruited to this project if it had serious resources. In fact, I know one of them through email.

Maybe see if that person would be willing to consult if you did put in
to demonstrate some tiny, incomplete prototype.  Tens of thousands of
dollars for a few hours' consulting, spread over months, can get some
attention.

>> > I am thinking of 2500 tons-per-day for a prototype. That's one part in 30 for what would be needed for Los Angeles. The AIs guess such a prototype would cost $200 to $300 million.
>>
>> So go down to 2.5 tons per day.  I am not kidding.
>>
>> > At some point, a demonstration will not work because of scaling laws. Small devices have unfavorable surface to volume ratios. A 160 MW prototype is expected to leak at least 8 MW.
>>
>> So it would leak.  That's fine, so long as it leaks in exactly the
>> expected amount.  The prototype is not expected to be practical for
>> profitable operation.  It is intended to demonstrate your claims (and,
>> again, build up demonstrable personal experience) on a small budget.
>>
> I don't have money or room to build one even that small.

Yes, but you can come up with a budget for one (including the
estimated room), yes?

Come up with a tiny little partial incomplete prototype that you can
make for less than $200K - including paying yourself and anyone else
you'd employ to make it.

It can be done.  If you swear that it can't, chop off features and
scale down.  It doesn't matter how far from the final version you get;
it just has to be some incremental very first step to demonstrate that
you can make and run a gasifier at all - or possibly, that you can at
least design one.  (SBIR Phase Is for hardware, where the production
hardware will be large, often produce only schematics, with no actual
hardware constructed until Phase II.)

>> > Would this project be useful after the singularity? Or would every home have a recycle machine?
>>
>> So don't worry about it post-singularity.  Worry about the path to get
>> it going without waiting for the singularity.
>>
>> Besides, even post-singularity, at least shortly-post, you'll have
>> incrementally advanced stuff, which can help.  Even godlike AIs -
>> especially the early generations - are constrained by physical reality
>> and can only move so fast.
>>
> That's true, though the AIs are incredibly helpful. Open any one of them up and paste in the executive summary. See what it says.

Oh, absolutely.  But that's today's AIs, not post-singularity ones.
And you absolutely are allowed to use AIs in SBIR-funded work - in
fact, some routes practically expect it - so long as you manually
review what they produce and correct any errors they make.  As a first
step, they can help you make a proposal to this funding source.

>> >> I suggest identifying some trivial, tiny piece that you can do on,
>> >> say, $100K-200K, and proposing that miniscule starting piece to the
>> >> Department of Energy SBIR program
>> >
>> > Maybe. This is related to renewable energy and you know how any project related to that is doing. But then, maybe I should see if Trump would give me a billion *not* to do it.
>>
>> Nah, pitch it as related to fossil fuels.  It is, technically.
>>
> I think that would be even worse. The official line is drill baby drill.

Nah.  They're up for processing improvements, too.

I speak as someone who has had DOE-funded research in the past couple
of years.  Trust me, you can apply.  You won't be arrested or face any
other such backlash just for applying.  (You do have to register in
certain government databases, most notably sam.gov, but if you're
worried about certain enemies you've picked up, they don't have access
to these databases - and if they ever do go after you while you're
working a government contract, you can spin it that those enemies just
attacked the US government's work.)

> I am in contact with Paul Jaffe who I think knows about my low mass space radiators. They may need them to cool big laser diodes.

Ask him if he knows anyone who's hiring, perhaps.  But I wouldn't stop
at asking only him.  Check
https://ssi.org/solar-power-satellites/sps-news/ too if you might want
to consider getting back into solar power satellites.  (And that link
for SpaceX's hiring, if you might stomach working for them - though I
know that might not be palatable, mainly because I suspect you would
have to move to their location.)