[ExI] Von Neumann Probes

[John Clark]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 4:23 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

*> *
>
>
>
> *Rather than crush Jupiter into a black hole, consider lifting it out of
> the gravity well.  Drexler worked this out a long time ago and had to
> invent a new measure of energy to make it (sort of) comprehensible. It
> would take the total output of the sun for 3 centuries to pull Jupiter
> apart.*
>

*The amount of energy needed to tear Jupiter apart would be trivially tiny
compared with the gargantuan amount of energy that would be required to
crush it into a 20 foot wide Black Hole.  *


*John K Clark*







>
> Keith
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 12:58 PM John Clark via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 9:43 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> >>>> >>> Answer my question from my previous email: how many
> non-reversible computations can be performed for two computers at those two
> temperatures,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >> That depends on the mass of the computers in question. Regardless
> of what temperature the computers are at, the maximum number of bits of
> information one kilogram of mass can process per second is 1.36*1^50 bits .
> If all else was equal a computer with a black hole heat sink would be able
> to process  0.0064699999983% more information than a computer that used
> empty space as a heat sink. Does that improvement seem worth crushing
> Jupiter into a 20 foot wide Black Hole to you?
> >>
> >>
> >> > I see your error.
> >
> >
> > MY ERROR?!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > You are confusing wasted energy for useful energy.
> >
> >
> > My confusion?!  The total amount of energy produced has nothing to do
> with the temperature of the cold heat sink, it does have an effect on the
> theoretical limit of how much of the total energy can be turned into work.
> AND the amount is almost exactly the same for both, 0.99353 % can be if
> empty space is used as a cold heat sink, and 0.9999999999983%  can be if an
> unspecified method is used to crush Jupiter into a 20 foot wide black hole
> and that is your cold a heat sink.
> >
> > I think the gargantuan amount of energy required to crush Jupiter into
> such a dense state, FAR greater than the amount of energy the sun will
> produce in its entire lifetime, could more productively be used in other
> ways.
> >
> >
> >> > See my email in the other thread which shows how this difference
> yields a 3.8 billion fold increase in the number of computations that can
> be performed. (Because it is wasted energy that has been reduced, not the
> amount of useful energy that has been increased).
> >
> >
> > If I had written that email I'd be embarrassed by it and not be urging
> others to read it again.
> >
> > John K Clark
> >
> >
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