[ExI] Von Neumann Probes

[John Clark]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 5:43 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

*> Note also that there is no upper limit to how efficient a computer can
> be*


*Of course there is! Nothing can be more efficient than 100%. You're
starting to sound like Mr. I Lowered Drug Prices By Two Thousand Percent.*

*John K Clark*





>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 3:56 PM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2026 at 9:43 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Answer my question from my previous email: how many non-reversible
>>>>> computations can be performed for two computers at those two temperatures,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *>> That depends on the mass of the computers in question. Regardless
>>>> of what temperature the computers are at, the maximum number of bits of
>>>> information one kilogram of mass can process per second is 1.36*1^50 bits .
>>>> If all else was equal a computer with a black hole heat sink would be able
>>>> to process  **0.0064699999983% more information than a computer that
>>>> used empty space as a heat sink. Does that improvement seem worth crushing
>>>> Jupiter into a 20 foot wide Black Hole to you? *
>>>>
>>>
>>> *> I see your error.*
>>>
>>
>> *MY ERROR?!*
>>
>>
>>
>>> *> You are confusing wasted energy for useful energy.*
>>>
>>
>> *My confusion?!  **The total amount of energy produced has nothing to do
>> with the temperature of the cold heat sink, it does have an effect on the
>> theoretical limit of how much of the total energy can be turned into work.
>> AND the amount is almost exactly the same for both, 0.99353 % can be if
>> empty space is used as a cold heat sink, and 0.9999999999983%  can be if an
>> unspecified method is used to crush Jupiter into a 20 foot wide black hole
>> and that is your cold a heat sink. *
>>
>
> Read about Landauer's principle
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle#Statement>. If you
> do, it is clear that a computer that is 10 times colder can perform an
> irreversible computation for 1/10th the energy, or in other words, can
> compute 10 times as many computations as the computer that is 10 times
> warmer. Conventionally, we would say the colder computer is 10X as
> efficient, just as we might say a car that gets 50 miles per gallon is 10
> times as efficient as the car that only gets 5 miles per gallon. Note also
> that there is no upper limit to how efficient a computer can be. If we make
> one 3.8 billion times colder than the background radiation, it will be 3.8
> billion times as efficient. I shouldn't have to spell this out to you like
> this, you are smart enough to have figured it all out on your own, but you
> insist on playing dumb and intentionally misreading and misrepresenting my
> e-mails. I don't send this e-mail for you, but for the benefit of others on
> the list that would be happy to learn there is no physical upper bound on
> how many computations can be performed per unit of expended energy.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>>
>> *I think the gargantuan amount of energy required to crush Jupiter into
>> such a dense state, FAR greater than the amount of energy the sun will
>> produce in its entire lifetime, could more productively be used in other
>> ways.*
>>
>
>>
>> *> See my email in the other thread which shows how this difference
>>> yields a 3.8 billion fold increase in the number of computations that can
>>> be performed. (Because it is wasted energy that has been reduced, not the
>>> amount of useful energy that has been increased).*
>>
>>
>> *If I had written that email I'd be embarrassed by it and not be urging
>> others to read it again.  *
>>
>> *John K Clark*
>>
>>
>>
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