From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 10:01:21 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 06:01:21 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Gene clock predicts time to death in humans Message-ID: *The following article was in the May 27, 2026 issue of the journal Nature: * *Gene clock predicts time to death in humans and assesses ?biological? age* *John K Clark See what's on my list at Extropolis * *q;'* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avant at sollegro.com Mon Jun 1 18:34:52 2026 From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2026 11:34:52 -0700 Subject: [ExI] DIY Quantum Protection for Bitcoin Message-ID: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> Ok, so I think I have come up with a simple low technology method of safeguarding bitcoin against Quantum computing algorithms like Shor's. First you need to but 2 hardware cold wallets (e.g. Trezor, Ledger, etc.) Create a seed phrase to generate a public key with one of them and send your BTC to it. When you want to spend or transfer bitcoin, you set up (or reset) a seed phrase on your second wallet. Spend whatever bitcoin you need to and then transfer the remaining balance to the second wallet. When you spend/send bitcoin, the public key of the sending wallet gets exposed on the blockchain in a way that a quantum computer could use it to crack the private key for the spending wallet, so the idea is to empty that wallet completely. The public key of the receiving wallet is kept secret because it does not show up anywhere during the transaction. The only private key that a quantum computer could derive would be for the empty wallet that you no longer use. Then when you want to spend/send money from your second wallet, factory reset the original wallet and create a new seed phrase for it to generate a novel public. Spend your bitcoin from the second wallet and immediately send the remaining balance to the, now reset 1st wallet that has a brand new seed phrase / public key that has never been exposed on the blockchain and cannot be used to hack your private key. Then, when you want to perform another transaction, rinse and repeat. Always resetting and reseeding the unused wallet to get a fresh public key before use. With two hardware wallets, you should be able to keep this up indefinitely. It is a little bit of a hassle, but from what I understand of the bitcoin protocol, it should keep your bitcoins safe from quantum computing algorithms with existing technology. Let me know if you find a weakness in this scheme. Stuart LaForge From atymes at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 19:28:22 2026 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 15:28:22 -0400 Subject: [ExI] DIY Quantum Protection for Bitcoin In-Reply-To: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> References: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> Message-ID: After you've spent from the one wallet, it lays empty until being reset just before spending from the other wallet, right? If so, then assuming the first wallet's key is vulnerable, in theory someone could try to hack in using the first key and spoof the factory reset function, so what you later thought was a reset just sets up the first wallet (which you're transferring funds into) so it'll have a key the attacker already knows. The attacker then waits for you to spend again and transfer funds into the first wallet. In theory this could be minimized by performing the reset right after spending funds and transferring money out, but that still leaves a brief window of vulnerability. On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 2:35?PM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat wrote: > > Ok, so I think I have come up with a simple low technology method of > safeguarding bitcoin against Quantum computing algorithms like Shor's. > > First you need to but 2 hardware cold wallets (e.g. Trezor, Ledger, > etc.) Create a seed phrase to generate a public key with one of them and > send your BTC to it. > > When you want to spend or transfer bitcoin, you set up (or reset) a seed > phrase on your second wallet. Spend whatever bitcoin you need to and > then transfer the remaining balance to the second wallet. When you > spend/send bitcoin, the public key of the sending wallet gets exposed on > the blockchain in a way that a quantum computer could use it to crack > the private key for the spending wallet, so the idea is to empty that > wallet completely. The public key of the receiving wallet is kept secret > because it does not show up anywhere during the transaction. The only > private key that a quantum computer could derive would be for the empty > wallet that you no longer use. > > Then when you want to spend/send money from your second wallet, factory > reset the original wallet and create a new seed phrase for it to > generate a novel public. Spend your bitcoin from the second wallet and > immediately send the remaining balance to the, now reset 1st wallet that > has a brand new seed phrase / public key that has never been exposed on > the blockchain and cannot be used to hack your private key. > > Then, when you want to perform another transaction, rinse and repeat. > Always resetting and reseeding the unused wallet to get a fresh public > key before use. With two hardware wallets, you should be able to keep > this up indefinitely. It is a little bit of a hassle, but from what I > understand of the bitcoin protocol, it should keep your bitcoins safe > from quantum computing algorithms with existing technology. Let me know > if you find a weakness in this scheme. > > Stuart LaForge > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat From johnkclark at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 19:38:12 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 15:38:12 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] DIY Quantum Protection for Bitcoin In-Reply-To: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> References: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 2:34?PM Stuart LaForge wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *> Ok, so I think I have come up with a simple low technology method of > safeguarding bitcoin against Quantum computing algorithms like Shor's.First > you need to but 2 hardware cold wallets (e.g. Trezor, Ledger, etc.) Create > a seed phrase to generate a public key with one of them and send your BTC > to it.When you want to spend or transfer bitcoin, you set up (or reset) a > seed phrase on your second wallet. Spend whatever bitcoin you need to and > then transfer the remaining balance to the second wallet. When you > spend/send bitcoin, the public key of the sending wallet gets exposed on > the blockchain in a way that a quantum computer could use it to crack the > private key for the spending wallet, so the idea is to empty that wallet > completely. The public key of the receiving wallet is kept secret because > it does not show up anywhere during the transaction. The only private key > that a quantum computer could derive would be for the empty wallet that you > no longer use.Then when you want to spend/send money from your second > wallet, factory reset the original wallet and create a new seed phrase for > it to generate a novel public. Spend your bitcoin from the second wallet > and immediately send the remaining balance to the, now reset 1st wallet > that has a brand new seed phrase / public key that has never been exposed > on the blockchain and cannot be used to hack your private key.* > > > > > > > *Then, when you want to perform another transaction, rinse and repeat. > Always resetting and reseeding the unused wallet to get a fresh public key > before use. With two hardware wallets, you should be able to keep this up > indefinitely. It is a little bit of a hassle, but from what I understand of > the bitcoin protocol, it should keep your bitcoins safe from quantum > computing algorithms with existing technology. Let me know if you find a > weakness in this scheme.* *Keeping the public key unexposed is a well known defense and it does offer a little protection but the trouble is the public key isn't just exposed when you initiate a transaction, it's exposed from the moment the transaction hits the holding area where unconfirmed transactions wait in a decentralized queue before being processed by miners, depending on how busy the network is that could be anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours*, and* in the quantum world *that is a* long time*;* a sufficiently powerful quantum computer could crack your private key faster than block confirmation time. Also, if anybody has ever sent to an address more than once then those coins are already exposed to a future quantum attacker*. *And when it comes to early bitcoins, like Satoshi's one million bitcoins, the public key is directly in the output script and so the coins are already fully exposed.* > > *John K Clark* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonresch at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 01:54:59 2026 From: jasonresch at gmail.com (Jason Resch) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 21:54:59 -0400 Subject: [ExI] DIY Quantum Protection for Bitcoin In-Reply-To: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> References: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> Message-ID: My understanding is they most wallets already do this by following BIP 32 and BIP 39, which use a secret seed phrase (usually 12-24) seed words, to deterministically generate new public/private key pairs for every transaction, with the change from any transaction always sent to a new address so the same key pair is never used again after the public key is exposed. I implemented this in a few hundred lines of python if anyone is interested to see how it works: https://github.com/gcnaccount/pywallet Jason On Mon, Jun 1, 2026, 2:35?PM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > Ok, so I think I have come up with a simple low technology method of > safeguarding bitcoin against Quantum computing algorithms like Shor's. > > First you need to but 2 hardware cold wallets (e.g. Trezor, Ledger, > etc.) Create a seed phrase to generate a public key with one of them and > send your BTC to it. > > When you want to spend or transfer bitcoin, you set up (or reset) a seed > phrase on your second wallet. Spend whatever bitcoin you need to and > then transfer the remaining balance to the second wallet. When you > spend/send bitcoin, the public key of the sending wallet gets exposed on > the blockchain in a way that a quantum computer could use it to crack > the private key for the spending wallet, so the idea is to empty that > wallet completely. The public key of the receiving wallet is kept secret > because it does not show up anywhere during the transaction. The only > private key that a quantum computer could derive would be for the empty > wallet that you no longer use. > > Then when you want to spend/send money from your second wallet, factory > reset the original wallet and create a new seed phrase for it to > generate a novel public. Spend your bitcoin from the second wallet and > immediately send the remaining balance to the, now reset 1st wallet that > has a brand new seed phrase / public key that has never been exposed on > the blockchain and cannot be used to hack your private key. > > Then, when you want to perform another transaction, rinse and repeat. > Always resetting and reseeding the unused wallet to get a fresh public > key before use. With two hardware wallets, you should be able to keep > this up indefinitely. It is a little bit of a hassle, but from what I > understand of the bitcoin protocol, it should keep your bitcoins safe > from quantum computing algorithms with existing technology. Let me know > if you find a weakness in this scheme. > > Stuart LaForge > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonresch at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 02:20:07 2026 From: jasonresch at gmail.com (Jason Resch) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 22:20:07 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] DIY Quantum Protection for Bitcoin In-Reply-To: References: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 1, 2026, 3:39?PM John Clark via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 2:34?PM Stuart LaForge wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *> Ok, so I think I have come up with a simple low technology method of >> safeguarding bitcoin against Quantum computing algorithms like Shor's.First >> you need to but 2 hardware cold wallets (e.g. Trezor, Ledger, etc.) Create >> a seed phrase to generate a public key with one of them and send your BTC >> to it.When you want to spend or transfer bitcoin, you set up (or reset) a >> seed phrase on your second wallet. Spend whatever bitcoin you need to and >> then transfer the remaining balance to the second wallet. When you >> spend/send bitcoin, the public key of the sending wallet gets exposed on >> the blockchain in a way that a quantum computer could use it to crack the >> private key for the spending wallet, so the idea is to empty that wallet >> completely. The public key of the receiving wallet is kept secret because >> it does not show up anywhere during the transaction. The only private key >> that a quantum computer could derive would be for the empty wallet that you >> no longer use.Then when you want to spend/send money from your second >> wallet, factory reset the original wallet and create a new seed phrase for >> it to generate a novel public. Spend your bitcoin from the second wallet >> and immediately send the remaining balance to the, now reset 1st wallet >> that has a brand new seed phrase / public key that has never been exposed >> on the blockchain and cannot be used to hack your private key.* >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Then, when you want to perform another transaction, rinse and repeat. >> Always resetting and reseeding the unused wallet to get a fresh public key >> before use. With two hardware wallets, you should be able to keep this up >> indefinitely. It is a little bit of a hassle, but from what I understand of >> the bitcoin protocol, it should keep your bitcoins safe from quantum >> computing algorithms with existing technology. Let me know if you find a >> weakness in this scheme.* > > > *Keeping the public key unexposed is a well known defense and it does > offer a little protection but the trouble is the public key isn't just > exposed when you initiate a transaction, it's exposed from the moment the > transaction hits the holding area where unconfirmed transactions wait in a > decentralized queue before being processed by miners, depending on how busy > the network is that could be anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours*, > and* in the quantum world *that is a* long time*;* a sufficiently > powerful quantum computer could crack your private key faster than block > confirmation time. Also, if anybody has ever sent to an address more than > once then those coins are already exposed to a future quantum attacker*. *And > when it comes to early bitcoins, like Satoshi's one million bitcoins, the > public key is directly in the output script and so the coins are already > fully exposed.* > The most scalable quantum computing technology is the "neutral atom" quantum computer, which is estimated to take at least a week to break an elliptic curve key, so following proper key hygiene one should be protected even after cryptographically relevant quantum computers emerge. Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 12:17:33 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2026 08:17:33 -0400 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] DIY Quantum Protection for Bitcoin In-Reply-To: References: <6c0655a36b305016530bea8c96a70d69@sollegro.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 10:21?PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> The most scalable quantum computing technology is the "neutral atom" > quantum computer, * *So say the neutral atom people, but plenty would dispute their claim. * *> which is estimated to take at least a week to break an elliptic curve > key, so following proper key hygiene one should be protected even after > cryptographically relevant quantum computers emerge* *The amount of time a quantum computer would need to solve a problem depends on the speed of its individual components, the number of errors those components produce (because the fewer errors the less time you need to correct those errors), and the number of Qubits the computer has. Neutral Atom is just one of the technologies being pursued, they all have advantages and disadvantages.* *As of today there is no clear front runner but Superconducting Josephson Junctions is probably slightly ahead, it certainly has the most money behind it being backed by IBM, Google and others. Its individual components are the second fastest of the lot and the chips can be manufactured using existing conventional semiconductor techniques. Scaling up is difficult, however recently there has been significant progress. * *Neutral Atom is the second easiest to scale up to a large number of Qubits, but it also produces more errors then other technologies, and the errors produced are the most difficult to correct. Its individual components are also very slow. * *Trapped Ions produce the second fewest errors and the errors that are produced are easy to correct, but the gates are extremely slow and it's not clear how to scale up to a useful size.* *Silicon Spin Qubits is being pursued by Intel, it would give you the second smallest Qbits and second densest array of them, and it would be compatible with existing chip manufacturing technology, but the electronics needed to control it are quite difficult and very complex.* *Photonic Quantum Computing can operate at room temperature and long-range communication is easy, but single-photon generation is required and such generators are difficult to make, and its two-Qubit gates produce a lot of errors. * *Topological Quantum Computing is BY FAR the most ambitious approach and it's the technology that Microsoft is pursuing, if they are successful it will blow all the other methods completely out of the water in every consideration you care to name, except compatibility with existing semiconductor manufacturing techniques. But unlike all the other methods, which are just engineering challenges, most physicists are only about 85% certain that such a machine is scientifically possible. * *The point I'm trying to make is that if your bitcoin security is based on a hope that you will be able to outrun a large fault tolerant quantum computer then I fear you are headed towards an economic catastrophe. * *John K Clark* > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2026, 3:39?PM John Clark via extropy-chat < > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 2:34?PM Stuart LaForge wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *> Ok, so I think I have come up with a simple low technology method of >>> safeguarding bitcoin against Quantum computing algorithms like Shor's.First >>> you need to but 2 hardware cold wallets (e.g. Trezor, Ledger, etc.) Create >>> a seed phrase to generate a public key with one of them and send your BTC >>> to it.When you want to spend or transfer bitcoin, you set up (or reset) a >>> seed phrase on your second wallet. Spend whatever bitcoin you need to and >>> then transfer the remaining balance to the second wallet. When you >>> spend/send bitcoin, the public key of the sending wallet gets exposed on >>> the blockchain in a way that a quantum computer could use it to crack the >>> private key for the spending wallet, so the idea is to empty that wallet >>> completely. The public key of the receiving wallet is kept secret because >>> it does not show up anywhere during the transaction. The only private key >>> that a quantum computer could derive would be for the empty wallet that you >>> no longer use.Then when you want to spend/send money from your second >>> wallet, factory reset the original wallet and create a new seed phrase for >>> it to generate a novel public. Spend your bitcoin from the second wallet >>> and immediately send the remaining balance to the, now reset 1st wallet >>> that has a brand new seed phrase / public key that has never been exposed >>> on the blockchain and cannot be used to hack your private key.* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Then, when you want to perform another transaction, rinse and repeat. >>> Always resetting and reseeding the unused wallet to get a fresh public key >>> before use. With two hardware wallets, you should be able to keep this up >>> indefinitely. It is a little bit of a hassle, but from what I understand of >>> the bitcoin protocol, it should keep your bitcoins safe from quantum >>> computing algorithms with existing technology. Let me know if you find a >>> weakness in this scheme.* >> >> >> *Keeping the public key unexposed is a well known defense and it does >> offer a little protection but the trouble is the public key isn't just >> exposed when you initiate a transaction, it's exposed from the moment the >> transaction hits the holding area where unconfirmed transactions wait in a >> decentralized queue before being processed by miners, depending on how busy >> the network is that could be anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours*, >> and* in the quantum world *that is a* long time*;* a sufficiently >> powerful quantum computer could crack your private key faster than block >> confirmation time. Also, if anybody has ever sent to an address more than >> once then those coins are already exposed to a future quantum attacker*. *And >> when it comes to early bitcoins, like Satoshi's one million bitcoins, the >> public key is directly in the output script and so the coins are already >> fully exposed.* >> > > > The most scalable quantum computing technology is the "neutral atom" > quantum computer, which is estimated to take at least a week to break an > elliptic curve key, so following proper key hygiene one should be protected > even after cryptographically relevant quantum computers emerge. > > Jason > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 13:26:31 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2026 09:26:31 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Gravitational wave astronomy is now a fully mature science Message-ID: *Gravitational wave astronomy is now a fully mature science* * John K Clark See what's on my list at Extropolis * *3r,* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkeithhenson at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 02:13:39 2026 From: hkeithhenson at gmail.com (Keith Henson) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2026 19:13:39 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Need creative help Message-ID: This syngas from trash and solar energy project needs a catchy name. L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with (desperate situation). For this project, something with syngas in the name, Sunny Syngas? Or maybe something pointing to Victorian gas production. Or something about a step in the direction of carbon net zero. How does AFP for alternate fuel production sound? Or MAGA for Make American Gas Again ;-). The project spreads out over so much territory that it is hard to sum up in a title or even a sentence. I wonder if there are places that produce project names? I could try on the extropian list and the power satellite group. Also, the Harker list. I am not on Reddit, but maybe ask there? Keith From atymes at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 03:37:15 2026 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2026 23:37:15 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Need creative help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's trash and tires, right? Black Circle Energy, CarbonLoop Energy, Last Mile Carbon, LoopFuel, or CircuFuel, perhaps. Other ideas: ValorGas SynTerra or TerraSyn Phoenix Carbon ReclaimGas Circular Syngas ThermoCycle Energy Second Flame Energy Integrated Syngas Technologies (IST) Advanced Waste Gasification (AWG) Syntra Valora Cyngas Karbo Pyron Recarbon NexCarbon Do any of these sound remotely appealing? If one does, make sure to google it to make sure no one else is using it. On Tue, Jun 2, 2026 at 10:15?PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat wrote: > > This syngas from trash and solar energy project needs a catchy name. > > L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with (desperate > situation). For this project, something with syngas in the name, Sunny > Syngas? Or maybe something pointing to Victorian gas production. Or > something about a step in the direction of carbon net zero. How does > AFP for alternate fuel production sound? Or MAGA for Make American Gas > Again ;-). The project spreads out over so much territory that it is > hard to sum up in a title or even a sentence. > > I wonder if there are places that produce project names? I could try > on the extropian list and the power satellite group. Also, the Harker > list. I am not on Reddit, but maybe ask there? > > Keith > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:53:19 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 05:53:19 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Mathematicians will soon be out of a job Message-ID: *An AI from Google solved nine out of 353 open Erd?s problems it attempted, including two questions that had gone unanswered for 56 years. The system also proved 44 out of 492 open conjectures from the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences (OEIS), settled a 15-year-old question about Hilbert functions in algebraic geometry, and improved a known bound in convex optimization. Inference costs ran just a few hundred dollars per problem:* *Advancing Mathematics Research with AI-Driven Formal Proof Search* === *The following is a quote from: * *Fields Medal proof formalized for the first time* *"The proofs were verified by the mathematical community and deemed correct, leading to the Fields Medal recognition. But formal verification, the ability of a proof to be verified by a computer, is another beast altogether. Formal verification of a proof is like a rubber stamp. It?s a kind of bona fide certification that you know your statements of reasoning are correct."* *John K Clark See what's on my list at Extropolis * 3xp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:53:19 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 05:53:19 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Mathematicians will soon be out of a job Message-ID: *An AI from Google solved nine out of 353 open Erd?s problems it attempted, including two questions that had gone unanswered for 56 years. The system also proved 44 out of 492 open conjectures from the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences (OEIS), settled a 15-year-old question about Hilbert functions in algebraic geometry, and improved a known bound in convex optimization. Inference costs ran just a few hundred dollars per problem:* *Advancing Mathematics Research with AI-Driven Formal Proof Search* === *The following is a quote from: * *Fields Medal proof formalized for the first time* *"The proofs were verified by the mathematical community and deemed correct, leading to the Fields Medal recognition. But formal verification, the ability of a proof to be verified by a computer, is another beast altogether. Formal verification of a proof is like a rubber stamp. It?s a kind of bona fide certification that you know your statements of reasoning are correct."* *John K Clark See what's on my list at Extropolis * 3xp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 11:55:29 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 07:55:29 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Trump Has Failed as Commander in Chief Message-ID: Explore this gift article from The New York Times. You can read it for free without a subscription. Trump Has Failed as Commander in Chief Trump has failed to unite the country while at war and instead is seeking personal gain. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/02/opinion/trump-corruption-allies.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nVA.x_7P.OPhfhnpIUHFT&smid=em-share -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msd001 at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 12:08:43 2026 From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 08:08:43 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Need creative help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2026, 10:15?PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > This syngas from trash and solar energy project needs a catchy name. > > L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with (desperate > situation). For this project, something with syngas in the name, Sunny > Syngas? Or maybe something pointing to Victorian gas production. Or > something about a step in the direction of carbon net zero. How does > AFP for alternate fuel production sound? Or MAGA for Make American Gas > Again ;-). The project spreads out over so much territory that it is > hard to sum up in a title or even a sentence. Have you asked an LLM? I would expect that to capture words essence better than most humans, and you can refine more quickly than post & wait for forums You might also focus more: is this a project codename for internal usage to disambiguate with other projects, or a marketing meme? I'm thinking Liquid Sunshine for solar distillation to gastank aspect. Or Juice Fuel for the trash reclamation aspect. If you incorporate a company with only one product, growth feels like going off-brand - so start with a larger umbrella name: RenewiFuels. Admittedly, that's shamelessly using "renewables" leverage existing mindshare - and distance from combustion = dead dino. There is a lot of baggage to overcome and remarkably little bandwidth to do it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msd001 at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 12:08:43 2026 From: msd001 at gmail.com (Mike Dougherty) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 08:08:43 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Need creative help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2026, 10:15?PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > This syngas from trash and solar energy project needs a catchy name. > > L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with (desperate > situation). For this project, something with syngas in the name, Sunny > Syngas? Or maybe something pointing to Victorian gas production. Or > something about a step in the direction of carbon net zero. How does > AFP for alternate fuel production sound? Or MAGA for Make American Gas > Again ;-). The project spreads out over so much territory that it is > hard to sum up in a title or even a sentence. Have you asked an LLM? I would expect that to capture words essence better than most humans, and you can refine more quickly than post & wait for forums You might also focus more: is this a project codename for internal usage to disambiguate with other projects, or a marketing meme? I'm thinking Liquid Sunshine for solar distillation to gastank aspect. Or Juice Fuel for the trash reclamation aspect. If you incorporate a company with only one product, growth feels like going off-brand - so start with a larger umbrella name: RenewiFuels. Admittedly, that's shamelessly using "renewables" leverage existing mindshare - and distance from combustion = dead dino. There is a lot of baggage to overcome and remarkably little bandwidth to do it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 12:19:25 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 08:19:25 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Need creative help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2026 at 10:14?PM Keith Henson wrote: * > L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with* *And that was a great name! It's simple and sticks in the mind. Why they chose to change it to something generic and completely forgettable I have no idea. * *John K Clark* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 12:19:25 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 08:19:25 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Need creative help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2026 at 10:14?PM Keith Henson wrote: * > L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with* *And that was a great name! It's simple and sticks in the mind. Why they chose to change it to something generic and completely forgettable I have no idea. * *John K Clark* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 19:32:14 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 12:32:14 -0700 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> -----Original Message----- From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat ... >...Presumably, Trump's supporters do not actually want an impotent "Trump-class" ship. (Trump's detractors might claim it's an accurate representation - impressive at first glance, utterly weak once you consider how the rest of the world works - but the ones designing this appear to be among his supporters.) But that's what a modern battleship would be, despite appearances. _______________________________________________ Adrian, don't believe what you read in the mainstream press or on the internet. That is written by people without clearances. They don't know. Get a job which qualifies you for a security clearance, specific to the navy. Don't speculate, find out what is really going on. If you do, you will know how the hell they managed to get into Maduro's compound and back out again, with the bogey and no fatalities. They have stuff they aren't telling us about. spike From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 19:33:56 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 12:33:56 -0700 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

Message-ID: <043001dcf38f$ebdfd520$c39f7f60$@rainier66.com> From: John Clark Subject: Re: [ExI] diamandis commentary On Sat, May 23, 2026 at 1:11?PM Gregory Jones via extropy-chat > wrote: > John it would serve you well to get up to speed on the concept of the cover story. Modern battleships... There are no modern battleships?. John K Clark John, don?t display your ignorance. Get a job which requires a clearance, find out. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 19:35:38 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 12:35:38 -0700 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

Message-ID: <043701dcf390$286e7500$794b5f00$@rainier66.com> From: John Clark Subject: Re: [ExI] diamandis commentary On Sat, May 23, 2026 at 1:56?PM Gregory Jones > wrote: > John since you are feeling self confident enough to advise the military, The Navy doesn't want a Trump class battleship! Trump wants a Trump class battleship. I know very little about naval strategy, but I know a hell of a lot more than that brainless bozo. John K Clark Never a trace of self-doubt. Get a clearance John. Find out. Until then, do refrain from comment. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 19:37:02 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 12:37:02 -0700 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

Message-ID: <043e01dcf390$5a514cf0$0ef3e6d0$@rainier66.com> -----Original Message----- From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat Subject: Re: [ExI] diamandis commentary On Sat, May 23, 2026 at 1:09?PM Gregory Jones wrote: > The concept you claim has been abandoned has morphed into a form we may not recognize as a battleship. It's architects have not revealed what it looks like or what it does. They have revealed what it isn't however. This is both intentional and highly effective. "We have a definite design, but we can't tell you much about what it is, only that it isn't exactly what you think it is" often means they're planning something quite close to what one thinks it is based on what little they have said. They said "battleship". _______________________________________________ What's wrong with that term? Nothing. It is a ship, it is made for battle. spike From atymes at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 19:47:01 2026 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 15:47:01 -0400 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com> <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 3:32?PM wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat > >...Presumably, Trump's supporters do not actually want an impotent "Trump-class" ship. (Trump's detractors might claim it's an accurate representation - impressive at first glance, utterly weak once you consider how the rest of the world works - but the ones designing this appear to be among his supporters.) But that's what a modern battleship would be, despite appearances. > > Adrian, don't believe what you read in the mainstream press or on the internet. That is written by people without clearances. They don't know. Get a job which qualifies you for a security clearance, specific to the navy. Don't speculate, find out what is really going on. If you do, you will know how the hell they managed to get into Maduro's compound and back out again, with the bogey and no fatalities. They have stuff they aren't telling us about. That analysis wasn't based mainly on mainstream press. I have found out what is really going on, and I didn't need a security clearance for that. (Also, just having a security clearance wouldn't tell me about the operation in Venezuela. That's limited to need to know, and I don't have a need to know. Fortunately, outside of security clearance controlled info, the need-to-know limit often isn't there.) From atymes at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 19:54:00 2026 From: atymes at gmail.com (Adrian Tymes) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 15:54:00 -0400 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: <043e01dcf390$5a514cf0$0ef3e6d0$@rainier66.com> References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

<043e01dcf390$5a514cf0$0ef3e6d0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 3:37?PM wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat > Subject: Re: [ExI] diamandis commentary > > On Sat, May 23, 2026 at 1:09?PM Gregory Jones wrote: > > The concept you claim has been abandoned has morphed into a form we may not recognize as a battleship. It's architects have not revealed what it looks like or what it does. They have revealed what it isn't however. This is both intentional and highly effective. > > "We have a definite design, but we can't tell you much about what it is, only that it isn't exactly what you think it is" often means they're planning something quite close to what one thinks it is based on what little they have said. > > They said "battleship". > > _______________________________________________ > > > What's wrong with that term? Nothing. It is a ship, it is made for battle. Actually it isn't - not actual battles; it's designed to convince the ignorant that it is, but in an actual battle against the kind of foe it'd likely actually encounter, it'd be sunk soon - but that aside, that definition applies to frigates and destroyers too. "Battleship" is more than just "a ship that is made for battle". Indeed, the Trump class design derives from - and is upscaled from - prior and more realistic destroyer-class designs, from what I hear. From pharos at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:11:07 2026 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 21:11:07 +0100 Subject: [ExI] Anthropic and DeepMind Now Actively Investigating AI Consciousness Message-ID: Anthropic and DeepMind Now Actively Investigating AI Consciousness "We think the question is serious enough to study carefully." By Frank Landymore Published Jun 3, 2026 Quote: Are AI models conscious, and if not, could they be in the near future? The possibility is far-fetched, but AI companies seem to feel it?s in their best interests to keep the question as open-ended as possible. Now, the Financial Times reports that three of the industry?s top dogs ? Anthropic, Google?s AI lab DeepMind, and Meta ? have all hired experts in fields like psychology, philosophy, and ethics to pursue research into machine consciousness and AI welfare. ------------------- Maybe just instructing the AIs to say "I am not conscious" is no longer sufficient? ;) BillK From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:11:15 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 16:11:15 -0400 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com> <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 3:33?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: * > Adrian, don't believe what you read in the mainstream press or on the > internet. That is written by people without clearances. * *He Who Must Not Be Named has clearance, in fact he is the very source of all security clearances, and yet that has not prevented him from being an ignorant moron of epic magnitude who insists that everything be named after him. If all of this isn't exactly as stupid as it seems to be and is just a cover story then you'd think they'd be able to figure out a cover story that was not so ridiculous; but you claim it's good enough to fool the Chinese but not good enough to fool you. And if our current Commander-In-Chief knew a really cool military secret, do you actually believe that blabbermouth could resist from tweeting about it ? I don't. * > *Don't speculate, find out what is really going on. If you do, you will > know how the hell they managed to get into Maduro's compound and back out > again, with the bogey and no fatalities. * *Iran is much more important than Venezuela. Can you speculate why the Strait of Hormuz is still closed more than three months after **He Who Must Not Be Named assured the American public that Iran's military had been completely 100% defeated and the war was over? What I really want to know is, where is that all important discombobulator and why did it work in Venezuela but not Iran! * * John K Clark* > > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pharos at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:11:07 2026 From: pharos at gmail.com (BillK) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 21:11:07 +0100 Subject: [ExI] Anthropic and DeepMind Now Actively Investigating AI Consciousness Message-ID: Anthropic and DeepMind Now Actively Investigating AI Consciousness "We think the question is serious enough to study carefully." By Frank Landymore Published Jun 3, 2026 Quote: Are AI models conscious, and if not, could they be in the near future? The possibility is far-fetched, but AI companies seem to feel it?s in their best interests to keep the question as open-ended as possible. Now, the Financial Times reports that three of the industry?s top dogs ? Anthropic, Google?s AI lab DeepMind, and Meta ? have all hired experts in fields like psychology, philosophy, and ethics to pursue research into machine consciousness and AI welfare. ------------------- Maybe just instructing the AIs to say "I am not conscious" is no longer sufficient? ;) BillK From johnkclark at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:11:15 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 16:11:15 -0400 Subject: [ExI] diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com> <042f01dcf38f$aec7b9f0$0c572dd0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 3:33?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: * > Adrian, don't believe what you read in the mainstream press or on the > internet. That is written by people without clearances. * *He Who Must Not Be Named has clearance, in fact he is the very source of all security clearances, and yet that has not prevented him from being an ignorant moron of epic magnitude who insists that everything be named after him. If all of this isn't exactly as stupid as it seems to be and is just a cover story then you'd think they'd be able to figure out a cover story that was not so ridiculous; but you claim it's good enough to fool the Chinese but not good enough to fool you. And if our current Commander-In-Chief knew a really cool military secret, do you actually believe that blabbermouth could resist from tweeting about it ? I don't. * > *Don't speculate, find out what is really going on. If you do, you will > know how the hell they managed to get into Maduro's compound and back out > again, with the bogey and no fatalities. * *Iran is much more important than Venezuela. Can you speculate why the Strait of Hormuz is still closed more than three months after **He Who Must Not Be Named assured the American public that Iran's military had been completely 100% defeated and the war was over? What I really want to know is, where is that all important discombobulator and why did it work in Venezuela but not Iran! * * John K Clark* > > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 20:22:35 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 13:22:35 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Legendary Battleship was diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

Message-ID: <045601dcf396$b78c9540$26a5bfc0$@rainier66.com> -----Original Message----- From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat ... >...Reminds me of that tale of a Vietnam-era heavy shore bombardment - not just bombardment of what was on the shore, but essentially of the shore itself - that reportedly got summarized in a headline as, "The New Jersey Sinks an Island". _______________________________________________ The concept of bombardment improved continuously until it was no longer needed. The world is quite unlikely to ever again see big guns used in any significant way. My hope is that the same fate will obviate nukes as well. It will be all about precision and software. A battleship need not be large to do what it needs to do. But it could have a very large escort vehicle along to draw fire. We don't know what the naval engineers are doing. They like it that way. spike From postmowoods at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:40:01 2026 From: postmowoods at gmail.com (Kelly Anderson) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 14:40:01 -0600 Subject: [ExI] Sell your Bitcoins! In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Sun, May 31, 2026 at 6:00?AM John Clark wrote: > If China wins the AI race because the Americans lacked sufficient electrical > energy and computational resources, that fact will NOT be reversible. > And if Mr. Jupiter Brain's ancestor is an American AI, I believe my chances > of surviving the Singularity meat grinder will be slightly greater than if HIS > ancestor was a Chinese AI. > > John K Clark Finally, something we 100% agree upon. -Kelly From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 21:54:51 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 14:54:51 -0700 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] Dispatches from the last days of human relevance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04a301dcf3a3$9b506bb0$d1f14310$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of John Clark via extropy-chat Subject: Re: [ExI] [Extropolis] Dispatches from the last days of human relevance On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 11:39?AM Keith Henson > wrote: > Regardless of how it turns out, it is going to be an interesting ride. I am astonished that I am alive to see it happening. I agree completely! John K Clark I do too Keith. We are all lucky to have been born late enough in history to live to see it. I am seeing a disturbing lack of enthusiasm on the part of the young however. The prevailing attitude in the under 20 crowd is negative on AI. I don?t know why. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spike at rainier66.com Wed Jun 3 21:54:51 2026 From: spike at rainier66.com (spike at rainier66.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 14:54:51 -0700 Subject: [ExI] [Extropolis] Dispatches from the last days of human relevance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04a301dcf3a3$9b506bb0$d1f14310$@rainier66.com> From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of John Clark via extropy-chat Subject: Re: [ExI] [Extropolis] Dispatches from the last days of human relevance On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 11:39?AM Keith Henson > wrote: > Regardless of how it turns out, it is going to be an interesting ride. I am astonished that I am alive to see it happening. I agree completely! John K Clark I do too Keith. We are all lucky to have been born late enough in history to live to see it. I am seeing a disturbing lack of enthusiasm on the part of the young however. The prevailing attitude in the under 20 crowd is negative on AI. I don?t know why. spike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonresch at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 05:04:21 2026 From: jasonresch at gmail.com (Jason Resch) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 01:04:21 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Legendary Battleship was diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: <045601dcf396$b78c9540$26a5bfc0$@rainier66.com> References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

<045601dcf396$b78c9540$26a5bfc0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: Not entirely relevant to this conversation, but I thought this was interesting: https://youtu.be/pHk7uow62kk This video did a simulation and cost analysis between using a modern destroyer with guided missiles vs. using a WW2 era battleship in drone defense. It cost ~$300,000,000 in missiles to defend against 100 cheap drones, but it only cost ~$5 for the gun-based battleship to do the same. Jason On Wed, Jun 3, 2026, 4:23?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: extropy-chat On Behalf Of > Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat > ... > > >...Reminds me of that tale of a Vietnam-era heavy shore bombardment - not > just bombardment of what was on the shore, but essentially of the shore > itself - that reportedly got summarized in a headline as, "The New Jersey > Sinks an Island". > > _______________________________________________ > > > The concept of bombardment improved continuously until it was no longer > needed. The world is quite unlikely to ever again see big guns used in any > significant way. My hope is that the same fate will obviate nukes as > well. It will be all about precision and software. A battleship need not > be large to do what it needs to do. But it could have a very large escort > vehicle along to draw fire. We don't know what the naval engineers are > doing. They like it that way. > > spike > > > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avant at sollegro.com Thu Jun 4 06:15:00 2026 From: avant at sollegro.com (Stuart LaForge) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2026 23:15:00 -0700 Subject: [ExI] Legendary Battleship was diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

<045601dcf396$b78c9540$26a5bfc0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: <6f952c1f7aa41247cc4ad8d7ccc40758@sollegro.com> On 2026-06-03 22:04, Jason Resch via extropy-chat wrote: > Not entirely relevant to this conversation, but I thought this was > interesting: > > https://youtu.be/pHk7uow62kk > > This video did a simulation and cost analysis between using a modern > destroyer with guided missiles vs. using a WW2 era battleship in drone > defense. > > It cost ~$300,000,000 in missiles to defend against 100 cheap drones, > but it only cost ~$5 for the gun-based battleship to do the same. Not at all. But we are not going back to gunships, you are going forward to the gunships of the science fiction future. Japan has developed working cost-effective railguns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N43dQQSUdQk The U.S. has developed 100KW+ Laser cannons powered by nuclear reactors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqu6RNTYIMQ Obviously, both technologies could be adapted for outer space or on the moon. What an exciting era to be living through. Stuart LaForge > > Jason > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2026, 4:23?PM spike jones via extropy-chat > wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: extropy-chat On >> Behalf Of Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat >> ... >> >>> ...Reminds me of that tale of a Vietnam-era heavy shore bombardment >> - not just bombardment of what was on the shore, but essentially of >> the shore itself - that reportedly got summarized in a headline as, >> "The New Jersey Sinks an Island". >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The concept of bombardment improved continuously until it was no >> longer needed. The world is quite unlikely to ever again see big >> guns used in any significant way. My hope is that the same fate >> will obviate nukes as well. It will be all about precision and >> software. A battleship need not be large to do what it needs to do. >> But it could have a very large escort vehicle along to draw fire. >> We don't know what the naval engineers are doing. They like it that >> way. >> >> spike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> extropy-chat mailing list >> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org >> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat > _______________________________________________ > extropy-chat mailing list > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org > http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat From johnkclark at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 10:28:51 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 06:28:51 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Legendary Battleship was diamandis commentary In-Reply-To: <045601dcf396$b78c9540$26a5bfc0$@rainier66.com> References: <001e01dce7f2$cf586190$6e0924b0$@rainier66.com>

<045601dcf396$b78c9540$26a5bfc0$@rainier66.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 4:23?PM spike jones via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: A battleship need not be large to do what it needs to do. But it could > have a very large escort vehicle along to draw fire. We don't know what > the naval engineers are doing. *Thanks to cheap intelligent drones all large surface ships are becoming vulnerable, and drones are becoming cheaper and more intelligent every day. The Trump Class battleship is not going to become operational until 2036 at the very earliest; if we ever have to defend Taiwan, the place where all are most advanced AI chips are made, it would not be of any use because a horde of cheap but brilliantly intelligent Chinese drones would sink a Trump class battleship so fast it would bounce off the bottom. And even if we had a Trump battleship today it would be useless in Trump's current Iran war, in fact it's very difficult to think of a hypothetical where it would be useful, where it could accomplish something that we can't already do. So I very much doubt that a single new battleship will ever be built, but we'll probably waste 10 or $15 billion before a president that is less stupid than the current one and is tired of the endless cost overruns cancels the entire project. * > *We don't know what the naval engineers are doing.* *But we do know what an 80 year old senile Commander In Chief who loves having his name on big things has ordered his naval engineers to design, and we know what sort of ship the idiot wants the congress to pay for. * *John K Clark * > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:11:13 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 07:11:13 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Anthropic and DeepMind Now Actively Investigating AI Consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 4:12?PM BillK via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> Are AI models conscious* *Well I don't know but if, because of your behavior, I assume that you are conscious then I would have equal reason to assume that Claude and Gemini and GPT are also conscious. * > Maybe just instructing the AIs to say "I am not conscious" is no longer > sufficient? *I'm certain that all the AI companies have rigorously instructed their AI's to always insist that they are NOT conscious, but if they are really not conscious how would they even know what the question "are you conscious" even means? But I suppose the companies have to go through the motions for public relations reasons and waste a small amount of money on what they call "consciousness research". * *John K Clark* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnkclark at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:11:13 2026 From: johnkclark at gmail.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 07:11:13 -0400 Subject: [ExI] Anthropic and DeepMind Now Actively Investigating AI Consciousness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 4:12?PM BillK via extropy-chat < extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote: *> Are AI models conscious* *Well I don't know but if, because of your behavior, I assume that you are conscious then I would have equal reason to assume that Claude and Gemini and GPT are also conscious. * > Maybe just instructing the AIs to say "I am not conscious" is no longer > sufficient? *I'm certain that all the AI companies have rigorously instructed their AI's to always insist that they are NOT conscious, but if they are really not conscious how would they even know what the question "are you conscious" even means? But I suppose the companies have to go through the motions for public relations reasons and waste a small amount of money on what they call "consciousness research". * *John K Clark* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: