[ExI] Uploads are self

[Keith Henson]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 9:40 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> On 16/03/2026 10:35, Keith Henson wrote:
> > When the technology supports uploading, it should be able to store
> > bodies and reverse the process.  No matter if you settle in the meat
> > or uploaded state, you should be able to freely move between them.
> > Continuous memory, not even a loss of consciousness during moves.
> >
> > How many of you would buy a car without a test drive?
>
> That can only work if the uploading process is non-destructive. I expect that destructive uploading will be achieved long before non-destructive.

Given how fast things move, what do you consider "long before"?
Weeks?  Years?  If you are upgrading your computer, would you be happy
with having to destroy the old one and all contents to do it?

> I also expect that robotic bodies and brains will be developed before non-destructive uploading, which might mean that it will never be developed, as there would be no need for it. It will be a lot easier to load your consciousness into a synthetic brain than into a biological one,

That is uploading.

> synthetic bodies, once perfected, are almost certainly going to be superior to biological ones in just about every way, so going back to biology after uploading would seem to be a huge step backwards.
>
Could be.  If uploading is possible, people may find the uploaded
state more desirable, causing a population crash in the "real world."
That was the theme the story was based on.

> I'm not sure that the car analogy is apt, for a few reasons, but with destructive uploading, it doesn't apply in any case.

I would not stand in the way of anyone who wanted a destructive
upload, but I find the idea repugnant.  People vary.  Most of you,
even here, reject cryonics.  In the last couple of years, Vernor Vinge
and Damien Broderick died without being preserved.  A major loss for
those of us who might make it into the future.

> Thinking about the legal situation with cryonic preservation, I should think that similar problems will apply to uploading, and it seems likely that there will be difficulties. Some people will no doubt regard it as a form of suicide, and try to prevent other people from doing it while they are still alive, so it might be that uploading only becomes possible (or rather, legal) after you've died. In some places, anyway.

The current situation is that when you need cryonics, you have *no*
other options.

> I'm also wondering how long it will be before opposition to uploading based on the idea of uploads being 'a danger to real people' or some such notion, will start to arise.
>
I can't imagine an upload being any more of a problem than an AI.

> It might be worth starting to think of how to combat, or guard against, threats to, and restrictions on, uploading well before it becomes a real thing. As soon as people in general start to realise that uploading is going to be possible, there will be bound to be objections to it.
>
I very much doubt it, at least with the current speed of human
institutions.  It is the same problem as AI; by the time AI is
regulated, it will have moved over the horizon.

Keith

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> Ben
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