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<o:Author>KEVIN FREELS</o:Author>
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<o:Created>2003-05-15T20:25:00Z</o:Created>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>I'm an atheist and I give (small amounts since I'm not rich)
to various charities, including things like local volunteer fire departments and
rescue squads.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>However, on the notion of non-religious charities, while I
don't know of any specifically _atheist_ ones, I do know of many charities that
do not have a religious affiliation -- including the aforementioned -- or a
religious philosophy backing them. Others would include groups like the
United Way, Doctors without Borders, and Reading Is Fundamental.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There are also political groups that have an atheist ideology
that do charitable work. Various Left wing groups come to
mind...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>The key difference, though, is that your friend is comparing
apples and oranges. He's comparing churches to individuals: organized
groups of theists to atheists in general. I bet if we made the comparison
of theists in general to atheists in general we might come up with no telling
charity-giving differences between the two in general. (In the US, theists
make up about 90 to 95% of the population. That doesn't mean people who
are members of churches, just people who believe there's a God.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>There's also charity on a personal level, such as helping
someone in need right in your neighborhood. This could be a stranger or a
friend or a family member. This kind of "local" charity doesn't get
tallied up or reported all that often, but it happens.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Finally, I think Ayn Rand put it right that charity is an
ethically marginal issue. Yes, it did help your wife and that's
great. But charity in and of itself cannot be the central issue
in ethics -- not if ethics is about living life on Earth (meaning in this
non-supernatural world). (Yeah, I know not all atheists are
Objectivists.:) From Rand's perspective, people who create and produce
give more to the community via unintended positive consequences than all the
charitable donations combined. She means things like the greedy
businesswoman who happens to employ hundreds or thousands of people and creates
new wealth allowing people to pull themselves up. After all, wealth has to
be created before it can be charitably given. Without such wealth
creation, the issue of charity would not exist.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>On your idea of starting an atheist charity, go for it!
I would find it extremely humorous to see avowed atheists getting press on this
issue. (One time I wanted to get some friends to protest a church coming
to our neighborhood. Imagine placards like "Keep Jesus Out of Our
Community!":)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>My two cents!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dan<BR><A
href="http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/">http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/</A><BR><BR>
See "Communication Breakdown: The Novels of Stanislaw Lem"<BR><A
href="http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/Lem.html">http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/Lem.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:kevinfreels@hotmail.com"
title=kevinfreels@hotmail.com>kevinfreels@hotmail.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org"
title=extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org>ExI chat list</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 16, 2003 6:13
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [extropy-chat] Atheist
charities, or lack of</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal>I have a friend who is extremely religious, but is always
willing to debate me rationally. (As rationally as a deeply religious person
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<P class=MsoNormal>One topic that recently came up in conversation was how
much death and destruction has been caused by religion. He had nothing to say
about this except for "there is no way we can know God's plan." </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>He admitted to christianity's shortcomings since "organized
religion is run by mankind, and mankind has the capacity for evil"</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>He then proceeded to list the good things that the church
does. Things such as feeding the poor, missionary work, and comforting people
while they are in need. Things such as going to hospitals to minister to those
who are "soon to leave this earth" and helping people pay for medical
procedures that they would otherwise not be able to afford. </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>My wife has actually been fortunate enough to have about
$10,000 worth of surgeical procedure paid for by a catholic charity that is
involved with St Mary's hospital here, even though she is an atheist.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>He then asked me how that compares with any atheist
organization.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I had to admit I had no idea. I told him I would check into
it and we would continue at a later time. </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Does anyone know what, if any, charitable organizations
there are that are atheistic in nature? I did a google on atheist charity and
found almost nothing. I am a bit disturbed by this. This would be a terrific
way to promote rational thinking. Am I missing something here? Or am I maybe
sitting on a potentially rewarding career?</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>