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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've forked the thread again because someone may be
interested in talking</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>about the Suda papers. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 07:41:25PM +0200, Eugen
Leitl wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> > Merkle is not a cryobiologist. He's a
cryptographer turned computational<BR>> > nanotechnologist, postulating
total reversibility in absence of facts which<BR>> > speak otherwise. It
is very difficult to get him to listen, because (for<BR>> > whatever
reason) he assumes the burden of proof is on your side, not his. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Then his political acumen is low. He has two
choices, work within the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>democratic </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>system,
such as it is, and change it lawfully by persuasion or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>invest the </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>time and
effort away from his other activities to try and overthrow</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it illegally and by force.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think that he will find, that the United
</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>States is a fairly formidable </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2>construction</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>of political checks and balances even to its own
citizens as it has evolved in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>large </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>part to
balance the tensions between their conflicting political interests,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>even </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>when those
interests </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>are relatively enlightened.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But this has nothing to do with the Suda papers if
people want to discuss </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>this essential existential political
choice I hope they will do it in another</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>appropriately </FONT></FONT><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=2>labelled </FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=2>thread. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>[Eugene again]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> I've seen enough to maintain that there's
enough in there to undertake <BR>> vigorous research. Don't claim the area
isn't worth studying, the potential<BR>> damage is very high.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I didn't claim it wasn't worth studying.
</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>If I did claim it, I would not accept
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>that my </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>opinion
</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>falsely or incorrectly based would or
should count for much.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> I.e., if cryonics is viable, any personal
responsibility in delaying large-scale</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> deployment makes you the greatest genocide
perpetrator in entire history,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> by a very far margin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> Ditto any gerontology/longevity research, of
course.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm a little at a loss to see how I could become
the greatest genocide</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>perpetrator in history by a very far margin simply
for failing to agree with a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>proposition. I thought as a
scientist you'd like scepticism and </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>questioning. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Exactly how many ways has your scientific training
allowed you to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>enumerated </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>for me to
becoming the greatest genocide </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>perpetrator
in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>history? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How would I rate next to abortionists for instance
or book burners? Would </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joe Stalin be envious, or Pol Pot? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Should I hold back all criticisms of molecular
manufacturing as well just in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>case its needed to make cryonics work?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On the other hand if cryonics cannot work, no way,
no how, regardless of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>what I say or don't say, think or don't think, then
would you prefer that the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>illusion that it could continue to be propagated
and that people not spend</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>their time and effort exploring alternatives
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Are some "beliefs" beyond the pail of critical
thinking? Which ones? Or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>whos? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Say you were a 'believer' in god and a religious
system and your belief</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>was </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>mistaken would I
have </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>a moral responsibility to stay quiet out of
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>deference to your feelings, to let you die
with your illusions whilst</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>during </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>your
life you continued to vote and act on your mistaken belief </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>redirecting </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>resources through the political processes that might
otherwise</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>have improved not just your life but mine and the
people I care about? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm more than a tad wary of the precautionary
principle you seem to be</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>espousing. I think I have seen
it before. I didn't like it much then either. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Brett Paatsch </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>