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<TITLE>RE: [extropy-chat] Cramer on Afshar</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I am still not sure who will be right eventually.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Basically I mean there should be something else as fundamental as the 4 forces </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>at the beginning of the universe such that I can feel this world and my existence now.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(Sorry, if people think this is just crap.)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Have you tried the book from Norman Friedman?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Bridging Science and Spirit: Common Elements in David Bohm's Physics, the Perennial Philosophy and Seth.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>********************************************</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>For centuries, humankind has tried to navigate between scientific and spiritual conceptions of reality, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>often without much success. In the resultant confusion, scientists, philosophers, and theologians have </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>pondered and argued -- yet the separation remains. Norman Friedman correlates </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the quantum physics of David Bohm with the Perennial Philosophy described by </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Aldous Huxley and the spiritual insights of the channeled entity known as Seth, to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>show how a single reality emerges from seemingly contradictory perspectives -- a brilliant synthesis.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>********************************************</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I haven't had a chance to read it. But would like to know any insights from this book.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Walter.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>---------</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org [<A HREF="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org">mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</A>] On Behalf Of scerir</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:03 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: ExI chat list</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Cramer on Afshar</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>> So I always think the so-called grand unified theory </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> of 4 forces is really missing some very important </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> ingredients consisting of life or consciousness.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> There is really something missing.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Walter.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>If you mean than man is older than science, you are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>right. And if you mean that in "Nature" almost</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>everything can be seen as a transition between two </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>boundary conditions (birth/death; preselection/postselection;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>past/future; etc.) that is possible. But if you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>wish to inject life and consciousness into measurements</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>which are performed by robots (at Cern), or by dogs</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(down the road), or by nobody (zillions of seconds ago),</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>you are wrong, imo. And if you wish to inject life and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>consciousness into equations you must be an artist.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>s.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Ok, sometimes you can read bad things written by bad</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>scientist, such as Niels Bohr.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>"For a parallel to the lesson of atomic theory regarding</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the limited applicability of such customary idealisations,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>we must in fact turn to quite other branches of science,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>such as phychology, or even to that kind of epistemological</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>problems with which already thinkers like BUDDHA and LAO TSE</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have been confronted, when trying to harmonize our position</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence"</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>- Niels Bohr (Biology and Atomic Physics, Bologna 1938)</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>"Incidentally, medical use of psychoanalytical treatment </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>in curing neurosis may be said to restore balance in the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>content of the memory of the patient by bringing him </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>new conscious experience rather than by helping him </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to fathom the abysses of his subconsciousness"</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>- Niels Bohr, "Unity of Knowledge" - Address</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>delivered at a Conference celebrating the Bicentennial</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of Columbia Univesity, N.Y., on 28 October 1954 -</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Doubleday & Co., N.Y., 1954.</FONT>
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