<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">On second thought I will briefly wade into the swamp.<DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:32 AM, Mike Lorrey wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I would put it that someone who believed a 56 day old fetus was a clump</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of cells with no rights to exist is someone that should be under</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">scrutiny for sociopathic tendencies.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Judgmental and prejudicial of discussion as ever I see. Why do you belief that just because the 56 day old fetus has a bit more rounded head and recognizable 10 fingers and ten toes that it is now fully endowed with all rights of the actually born and has all the rights at least of the woman carrying it? Your demarcation seems arbitrary. It certainly doesn't seem objective enough to call those who don't see it as you do sociopaths or insane. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Deciding some point in pregnancy that the pregnancy should only be terminated for more extreme reason makes sense to me on multiple levels. Part of what I said about a foetus not being a child until the parents say so is also a recognition that after the point of thinking of the foetus as child accidental loss or abortion becomes much more painful emotionally and psychologically. Contrasted with the difficult to define purported rights of the unborn are the obviously present rights of the woman carrying it to self-determination. Many are the hormonal and psychological pressures to carry to term. But pregnancy is no cakewalk physically or psychologically. Saying a woman must carry to term just because she is pregnant is an abrogation of her rights and involuntary servitude. It is a placing of the purported right of the unborn above the rights of the woman. This is obviously problematic. In practice a balance will be struck. In my personal view I would tend to place the line before which abortion is an at will decision roughly at the end of the first trimester. Abortion after some point in pregnancy should in my opinion only be for very substantial reasons. </DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">But I haven't met anyone in real life that actually does. At 56 days</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">there is a lot of tissue there and something that looks quite a lot</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">more like a child then like just a clump of cells.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'd like to hear Samantha's view on this. 56 days isn't even two months</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">yet, well within the first trimester that most women tend to believe is</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">their rightful period to execute an abortion without guilt or remorse.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV>There is almost always a lot of psychologically difficult stuff around deciding to abort after the hormones are flowing especially. It is not an easy decision and you do women a disservice by painting them as uncaring if they abort. But it is the woman's decision to make. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>How do you feel about the morning after pill, Mike? About a week after pill? A month? Where do you draw your line? And where do you get off calling those who disagree insane or sociopaths?</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000DD">- samantha</FONT></DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000DD"></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>