<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jeff Davis wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> --- Brett Paatsch <</FONT><A
href="mailto:bpaatsch@bigpond.net.au"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>bpaatsch@bigpond.net.au</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>> I think there is very likely to be good
grounds for<BR>>> impeaching President<BR>>> George W Bush. But it
is not going to happen even if<BR>>> there are good<BR>>> grounds if
those that would want it to happen do not<BR>>> get their shit
together<BR>>> enough to make a persuasive case when a
persuasive<BR>>> case is a case that<BR>>> would be able to convince
an impartial but<BR>>> interested person.<BR>> <BR>> Many people, I
think, have a misconception about<BR>> impeachment. Because it bears
some similarity to a<BR>> legal proceeding, that is a trial, some folks
may<BR>> think of it as such. But that's not the
case. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I put the words "cases of presidential impeachment"
into</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Google and get these links. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Presidential Impeachment : The Legal Standard and
Procedure</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Aug/1/130987.html"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Aug/1/130987.html</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Its an article from 2000, that starts out "an
involuntary removal</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>of a sitting President of the United States has
never occurred in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>our history". This article points at the relevant
clause is the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Constitution. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://ca.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577202/Impeachment.html"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://ca.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577202/Impeachment.html</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>says: <!--StartFragment --> "Two United States
presidents have been impeached. The U.S. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>House of Representatives impeached President
Andrew Johnson in 1868 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>and President Bill Clinton in 1998.
President Richard Nixon resigned in 1974</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>as impeachment proceedings were under
way."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><!--StartFragment --><FONT face=Arial size=2>Victims or rogues? The
impeachment of Presidents Clinton and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yeltsin in comparative perspective </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KVD/is_3_4/ai_n11843453">http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KVD/is_3_4/ai_n11843453</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't doubt that many people *do* have a
misconception about </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>impeachment. I would like to know more about
the details of it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>myself. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If we could get to a stage where there were
multiple extropian list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>posters that knew how impeachment works then we'd
be in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a position to have intelligent conversations about
it. I think that </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>would </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>be a healthy
thing. I think, the lack of understanding about</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>how governments works both <FONT>feeds
</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>into the sort of unrealistic
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>predictions about the future that flash
</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>up from time to time and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it encourages future Presidents to treat the public
like mugs. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> In a<BR>> trial the facts are
considered, and the judge or jury<BR>> is obliged by tradition, duty, and/or
legal<BR>> requirement to decide the case based on those facts. <BR>> An
impeachment however is far more likely to be<BR>> decided --the facts
notwithstanding--on the basis of<BR>> purely political considerations, that
is, on the basis<BR>> of pure partisanship. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your words "far more likely" suggest that you
are weighting</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>probabilities. But how can you do be doing
that?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Are you just concluding that the whole exercise is
pointless</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>because you don't want to look into it. Because it
seems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>like a dead end and a waste of time? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I suspect that that is likely to be the reason why
most people</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>will not look at or consider it. They don't care
enough. They</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>cant see that it will affect them.
</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If they don't care enough though that message
eventually gets</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>integrated into the thinking of the sorts of people
that run for</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>office and may find themselves in the role of
President in </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>future. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> If one party owns the house,<BR>> the
senate, the judiciary, a majority of the states,<BR>> and a majority of the
people, then the president, as<BR>> long as he is a member of that party, is
safe, no<BR>> matter how damning the evidence.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If that is so then it is so. If it isn't and you
and enough think</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it is then perhaps it will become
so. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can't think why any </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>President following George W Bush would</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>worry about </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>being
impeached if he sees what George W Bush has</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>managed to ride out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The President appoints a lot of his own staff and
senior officials.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The President has enormous control over resources
including the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>emerging technological resources. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am concerned that the US which has been a leading
construct</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>for progress may become a leading construct for
regress because</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the sort of people who understand how to manipulate
people and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>power will be attracted to the unaccountable
power that exists</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>in the Presidency. Unless the people are
willing to hold their</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Presidents to account it seems to me that they are
making the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>role of the President be just the sort of one that
an aspiring</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>totalitarian </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>dictator would want to claim for him or herself. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Brett Paatsch</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>