<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 8, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--- Brett Paatsch <<A href="mailto:bpaatsch@bigpond.net.au">bpaatsch@bigpond.net.au</A>> wrote:</DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">That seems like a reasonable example of a difference. Forced to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">choose</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">between a libertarian mindset that would have no government at all on</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">high principle and another mindset that would accept the need for a<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">government of some type, I'd tend to look at the second as being<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">more realistic in 2005.</DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'm not sure it would be accurate to say that the libertarian mindset</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">would prefer no government at all - that is more strictly an anarchic</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mindset.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>But it is certainly the case that many (though not all)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">libertarians would argue against regulating for (and thus, when</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">necessary, initiating force to compel) honest business practices, even</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">if this did in effect - albeit quite a few steps removed - cause</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">businesses to less often initiate force against people (because, in</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">part, honest businesses are less inclined and less able to do so).<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> <BR></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Business has no way of legally initiating force against anyone. Governments do. This is the crucial and often overlooked difference in a nutshell.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>An</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">extropian mindset, however, might advocate said regulations (and</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">enforcement of same) due to the eventual benefits (which, granted,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">would inherently be spread around to everyone: everyone personally</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">benefits from not having force applied to them).</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV>A mindset that doesn't understand the above difference might. But the initiation of force in the affairs of human beings to regulate everything that might harm or to regulate the economy can and historically often has very serious and dire unintended consequences. The assumption that ever larger and more vigilant government control is necessary to our well being is extremely pernicious to our well being and our extopian dreams. Remember please how government decisions and policies really are made and by what forces. Ask yourself honestly if you want your progress toward an extropic future under the thumb of that sort of process. Progress comes from the outliers and the small minority. It does not come from the democratic majority or out of a huge all-powerful bureaucracy. Choke of a critical level of freedom of that minority and only stagnation and decay will prevail.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>- samantha</DIV><FONT class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000DD"><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></BODY></HTML>