<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Nov 6, 2005, at 10:11 AM, Dirk Bruere wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR><BR><DIV><SPAN class="gmail_quote">On 11/6/05, <B class="gmail_sendername">Samantha Atkins</B> <<A href="mailto:sjatkins@mac.com">sjatkins@mac.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Funny, I know quite a few well-integrated Muslims. Looking back in</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR> Obviously.<BR> If they weren't particularly integrated you wouldn't know them.<BR> Let me guess - those Moslems were well educated middle class professionals? <BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>A mix of folks with a couple of blue collar families thrown in. But mostly middle class.</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV> </DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">history, riots, especially of the poor, are not generally religion-<BR>centric. These particular riots are not claimed, or led by any <BR>Islamic group. So is this a case of guilt by association and seeing<BR>evidence for what one already believes?<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>It is evidence of a religiously (self) defined self ghettoising and generally racially distinct underclass that may well be a permanent feature of the European landscape.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Many distinct cultural groups were long self-ghettoized or ghettoized by external pressure is US history. Many of my older friends grew up in large cities that effectively had pretty separate Polish, Irish. Jewish, Puerto Rican, Italian and Black communities and sections of the city. Some of these fully qualified as ghettos.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I don't think there is enough data here to claim that the problem is Muslim or one of Muslim separatism or self-ghettoization.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>- samantha</DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></BODY></HTML>