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<DIV>I believe the term Robert Ettinger uses for describing the continuity of the consciousness is the "self-circuit." I personally have a hard time imagining downloading being done anytime soon. <BR class=khtml-block-placeholder><BR>
A favorite analogy of mine regarding the question, "is a perfect copy of me, actually me?" is that of a man who has just had a perfect copy of himself created and who actually contends both he and his "Xox" are the very same person and it's all metaphysical jargon to say otherwise. A very vocal opponent of his view takes out a handy plasma rifle and pointing it at the original man's head says, "are you so sure of your statement that my pulling the trigger doesn't worry you?" LOL<BR>
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John<BR>
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<DIV>On Jan 26, 2006, at 4:50 AM, Robert Bradbury wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On 1/26/06, Giu1i0 Pri5c0 <<A href="compose.pl?To=pgptag@gmail.com" target=_blank>pgptag@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">...Ettinger about uploading a couple of years ago, but he did not seem to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">view it as an option. ...<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>but also because he does not think the copy</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">would be a continuation of the original (the identity problem).</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">A copy is a copy is a copy! <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Commands like COPY (DOS) or cp (UNIX)</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">would not be of questionable use if they did not create an *exact* copy.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">People who are "rational thinkers" should confront this head on and get the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">people who hold the "its not the original" position and force them to explain</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">precisely *why* the copy is not the original.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>This goes back to the points</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sam Harris has made about the need for the religious moderates to confront the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">religious conservatives who can offer no hard evidence for most of</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">their positions.</DIV>
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</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">You have to nail such people down to *precisely* how much information loss</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">they are willing to tolerate (this gets into discussions about how</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">many cells the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">brain loses each day or how many are lost after a minor stroke or how many are</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">lost if you hold your breath to the point of becoming unconscious,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">etc.) and relate</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">it to things similar areas that they can easily understand, e.g. the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">difference between</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">PNG and JPEG images or WAV and MP3 sound.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>This then leads into a discussion</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">as to *where* in the brain the information the *useful* information is</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">stored.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>For those</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">people who want to be recreated down to the level of specific atomic</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">isotopes for</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">each atom in the brain (or body) I fear they may be looking at a long</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">long time on ice.</DIV>
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</DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I don't see why not, and would sign up for uploading immediately if</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">there were providers offering brain scans of sufficient resolution,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">but also this is quite far (20 years is my best case estimate, but</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">please correct me if I am wrong).</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">The problem *isn't* the resolution. You could do atomic scale</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">resolution scans now.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">I believe methods have even been developed to do less than atomic diameter</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">measurements.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>The problem is the parallelism requirements and readout time.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">If one had the resources to setup the lab you could start uploading someone now.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Without the parallelism improvements the process would probably take</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">many thousands</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of years.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>The real problem is that you couldn't "run" them yet</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">because we don't know</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">how to run a human data copy with simulated inputs and outputs.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>You</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">also couldn't</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">rebuild an identical biological copy (yet).</DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Robert</DIV>
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