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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m sorry about my last post.
I got angry at you and I wrote a really lousy, emotional and rambling reply
based upon traumatic experiences in my past. My previous response to your
challenge was motivated by fear and I have spent the day making sense of my
emotions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You challenged me by asking, “</span></font>If
you believe that advanced civilizations cannot play "god" with solar
systems then I would like to see some very carefully reasoned arguments as to
precisely why that is the case.”<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don’t have to argue with you,
I agree with you. I believe that advanced civilizations exist and can and
possibly do play “god” with solar systems. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The question that underlies my emotional
attack on you is: do these civilizations act as “gods” or “devils?”
Are these intelligences playing Chess, or Risk or Go or Dungeons and
Dragons with the solar systems? Do they have morals? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Do you have any arguments that require an
advanced intelligence to have developed an advanced morality, to
recognize that another intelligence has a right to exist and to do it no harm?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Robert Bradbury<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, February 14, 2006
10:43 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">ExI
chat list</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [extropy-chat] Please
don't feed the trolls!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
On 2/14/06, Peter K. Bertine, Jr <<a
href="mailto:pkbertine@hotmail.com">pkbertine@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Thank you BillK !<br>
> <br>
> New to the list, I was wondering how far the discussion was going to go <br>
> before someone stepped in and "moderated."<br>
> <br>
> Until someone introduces an alien to NASA for a debriefing I don't want to
hear another word on the subject.<br>
> <br>
<br>
Peter, until someone comes up with a *really* good explanation for the
"missing mass" you have to admit that our current picture of reality
is quite incomplete. There is a *very* legitimate argument based on
Lineweaver's work that ~70% of the Earth's in our galaxy are *older* than ours
-- some by billions of years. I don't have any axe to grind with
regard to whether our specific solar system (or we in it) might or might not
have been created by aliens. I can make quite valid arguments for
(1) why more advanced civilizations than our probably exist; (2) why they might
not be "here" (the Fermi Paradox) because they migrate to the coldest
parts of the galaxy [1]; and potentially (3) why they might want to create
and/or influence the development of solar systems and/or life within them as
inexpensive sources of experimental information. <br>
<br>
My message earlier this morning pointed out the scientific underpinnings of
Raelian perspectives. The debate regarding those underpinnings is
*still* ongoing -- though I will admit that right now the "Big
Bang"ers have significantly greater throw weight relative to the
"Steady State"ers. I do not feel that discussions related to
that debate should be off-list topics because they relate, in part, to
"What are the limits of extropic capabilities?". As Question #6
in the Matrioshka Brain Paper [2], now almost a decade old, asked " What do
Matrioshka Brains 'think' about?" An immediate follow on to that
question is "How do they go about optimizing such thoughts?"
One perfectly legitimate way is to play "god" with solar systems. <br>
<br>
If you believe that advanced civilizations cannot play "god" with
solar systems then I would like to see some very carefully reasoned arguments
as to precisely why that is the case.<br>
<br>
When discussions cross over into the land of "believe me because I say it
is true" that is when the moderators may want to take action (IMO). <br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
1. Cirkovic, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Milan</st1:place></st1:City>
M.; Bradbury, Robert J.,<br>
"Galactic Gradients, Postbiological Evolution and the Apparent Failure of
SETI"<br>
<a
href="http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2005astro.ph..6110C">http://adsabs.harvard.edu/</a><a
href="http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2005astro.ph..6110C">cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2</a><a
href="http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2005astro.ph..6110C">
005astro.ph..6110C</a><br>
2. <a
href="http://www.aeiveos.com/%7Ebradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/MatrioshkaBrainsPaper.html">http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/MatrioshkaBrainsPaper.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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